Heresy 136 The Heart of Darkness

[Black Crow]

Welcome to Heresy 136 the latest edition of the thread that takes a sideways look at the Song of Ice and Fire.

This thread series is called Heresy because it challenges some of the popular assumptions that the Wall and the Nights Watch were created to keep the Others at bay - and that the story is going to end with Jon Snow being identified as Azor Ahai. Indeed it questions whether the Others are really the threat they appear, or perhaps more accurately whether they are indeed an icy version of a Dothraki horde, or whether the threat they pose is at once more complicated and much closer to home.

Instead, Heresy goes much deeper and wider and is about trying to figure out what’s really going on in the story beyond the headline game of thrones, by looking at clues in the text itself with an open mind, and by identifying GRRM’s own sources and inspirations, ranging from Celtic and Norse mythology such as the Cu Chulainn cycle, the Morrigan and the Mabinogion, all the way through to Narnia and the original Land of Always Winter, and even perhaps ultimately to recognizing the Heart of Winter not as a place on a map but as Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, for in Westeros Winter and Darkness are one and the same.

In fact the opening essay in this particular thread examines what lies beyond the Wall in the context of Conrad’s work. Some of it may surprise you and if you are not already familiar with the Heart of Darkness take a little time out to read it with ASoIF in the back of your mind.

However unlike the preceding threads comprising Mace Cooterian’s Five Kings project, focusing on particular aspects, this one sees a return to normal service. The OP is just to kick start it, so feel free to go off at a tangent. Stepping into the world of Heresy might at first appear confusing. Normally we range pretty widely and more or less in free-fall, in an effort to try and reach an understanding of what may really be happening through the resulting collision of ideas. We are in other words engaged in an exercise in chaos theory. It’s about making connections, sometimes real sometimes thematic, between east and west, between the various beliefs and types of magick - and also about reconciling the dodgy timelines. However, beyond the firm belief that things are not as they seem, there is no such thing as an accepted heretic view on Craster’s sons or any of the other topics discussed here, and the fiercest critics of some of the ideas discussed on these pages are our fellow heretics.

If new to Heresy you may want to start off with this link to Heresy 100: http://asoiaf.wester...138-heresy-100/ where you will find a series of essays specially commissioned to celebrate our century by looking closely at some of the major issues. Links are also provided at the end of each of the essays to the relevant discussion thread, and for those made of sterner stuff we also have a link to Wolfmaid's essential guide to Heresy: http://asoiaf.wester...uide-to-heresy/, which provides annotated links to all the previous editions of Heresy.

Don’t be intimidated by the size and scope of Heresy, or by some of the ideas we’ve discussed over the years. We’re very good at talking in circles and we don’t mind going over old ground again, especially with a fresh pair of eyes, so just ask, but be patient and observe the local house rules that the debate be conducted by reference to the text, with respect for the ideas of others, and above all with great good humour.

[Black Crow]

The Heart of Darkness

In general there is an assumption that the Heart of Winter which Bran saw in his vision with the three-eyed crow is to be found in the geography of Westeros, somewhere in or even beyond the Lands of Always Winter - and that it is where the mysterious Others come from. A few threads back, however, I suggested that it might be something else entirely and related to Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness.

As with GRRM’s own work, Conrad’s story is multi-layered with different shades of meaning. Thus at one level the Heart of Darkness is the unknown African wilderness itself; a vast blank space on the map just as like the haunted forest and the Lands of Always Winter. GRRM has previously cited standing on Hadrian’s Wall as a major inspiration, but it was not just the structure which attracted him: We walked along the top of the wall just as the sun was going down. It was the fall. I stood there and looked out over the hills of Scotland and wondered what it would be like to be a Roman centurion from Italy, Greece, or even Africa, covered in furs and not knowing what would be coming out of the north at you. I wanted to capture that feeling.

But of course sooner or later the story has to move beyond the Wall and into the dark continent beyond. There, in Conrad’s book the darkness also applies not just to the wilderness and to those savage tribes who live there, but also to those who intruded on it, whether the Romans in Britain, the First Men in Westeros or those venturing singling into the interior to become seduced and ultimately consumed by it.

Singularly it applies to Kurtz, the man at the Inner Station around whom Conrad’s story revolves. The narrator, Marlow, is to go into the interior in search of Kurtz, who ostensibly is an ivory trader but soon turns out to be something more. Like Bloodraven, Kurtz is an enigma, a man of great reputation, brilliant, “Dreamer, Wizard, call him what you will” but also mysterious in his effective disappearance. When last heard of Kurtz was sick but instead of coming down the river he had inexplicably turned back, alone, hence Marlow’s journey upstream to find him. In this too Kurtz also resembles Bloodraven, for there is no hint of his fate, no mention of the Lord Commander’s supposed death or comment on his vanishing, but if we take Kurtz’ as a precedent, then his failure to return is more explicable and might be something to be regretted as an inconvenience at the time but not so memorable as a bloody disaster or a mysterious and unexplained disappearance.

When Marlow and Bran arrive at the Inner Station and at the Cave respectively [both of which are extensively decorated with skulls] neither Kurtz nor Bloodraven are dead; they only look that way, as Marlow strikingly tells it: His covering had fallen off, and his body emerged from it pitiful and appalling as from a winding sheet. I could see the cage of his ribs all astir, the bones of his arm waving. It was as though an animated image of death carved out of old ivory had been shaking its hand with menaces…

Compare and contrast that with Bran’s description of Bloodraven at first meeting: “His body was so skeletal and his clothes so rotted that at first Bran took him for another corpse, a dead man propped up so long that the roots had grown over him, under him, and through him. What skin the corpse lord showed was white… A little skin remained, stretched across his face, tight and hard as white leather, but even that was fraying, and here and there the brown and yellow bone beneath was poking through.”

They are different, but only in detail; Bran is looking at Kurtz, and Marlow at Bloodraven, and like Bloodraven, Kurtz is venerated as a god. This is very explicit in Heart of Darkness and implicit in:

The last greenseer, the singers called him…”Most of him has gone into the tree,” explained the singer Meera called Leaf. “He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men. Only a little strength remains in his flesh. He has a thousand eyes and one, but there is much to watch. One day you will know.”

Yet there is also another character who strongly resembles Kurtz. The latter has descended quite literally into the heart of darkness, both physically and metaphorically, becoming a part of the horror. “He had withered; it had taken him, loved him, embraced him, got into his veins, consumed his flesh and sealed his soul to its own by the inconceivable ceremonies of some devilish initiation.”

While that reference to Kurtz most immediately describes Bloodraven it also recalls the Nights King; a warrior who knew no fear. “And that was the fault in him,” she would add, “for all men must know fear.” A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.
He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night’s King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night’s King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

Ultimately the identification of both Bloodraven and the Nights King with Kurtz – all three of whom have been taken by the darkness - not only offers an insight into the Heart of Winter which so terrified Bran in his vision, but also offers an answer to the mysterious Others; confirming them not as an icy version of a Dothraki horde, but as Craster’s sons, humans taken over and corrupted by the horror at the Heart of Darkness.

[Black Crow]

By way of a postscriptum: Marlow’s journey up the river to find Kurtz is not without hardship and incident, and it culminates in his steamer being attacked by natives very shortly before reaching the Inner Station. Here in Heresy we have speculated in the past that there is something fishy about the ambush of Bran and the Scooby Gang by wights lurking outside the cave, and that perhaps the wights may have been guarding rather than besieging it. In that context, it may be rather significant that in Conrad’s version, the Russian, [filling in very effectively for Coldhands in his admiration for Kurtz], tells Marlow that it was Kurtz himself who had ordered the attack on the steamer!

[alienarea]

So maybe Melisandre gets another vision wrong? The boy (Bran) in her vision showing the enemy might be on her side in The End (cue "This is the end ...") and give the coordinates to the air force (send dragons here)?

[Frey family reunion]

Well in support of your link with Conrad's Kurtz and GRRM's Bloodraven, GRRM gives us a character named Kurz who accompanies Yoren, Arya and the gang from King's Landing up to the Wall (Bloodraven went from King's Landing to the Wall as well).

This particular passage regarding Kurz caught my attention:

Kurz told them how to use rocks and make a kind of acorn paste. It tasted awful.

Seems a tad similar to the Weirwood paste that Bloodraven has the Children make for Bran, no?

[Black Crow]

So maybe Melisandre gets another vision wrong? The boy (Bran) in her vision showing the enemy might be on her side in The End (cue "This is the end ...") and give the coordinates to the air force (send dragons here)?

As this is Mr Martin's version rather than Mr Coppola's I'd be inclined to look for a more subtle variation. While there's no doubt that Bloodraven is indeed modelled on Kurtz and Coldhands on the Russian/Harlequin, I suspect that if Bran is Marlow we may get Jon playing Coppola's Captain Willard. At all events Heart of Darkness at last provides us with an idea as to how this is going to end - not with a great battle against the North's answer to the Dothraki, but in a resolution of the conflict that began when men first first came to Westeros, which will involve some very old allegiances now forgotten.

[Black Crow]

Well in support of your link with Conrad's Kurtz and GRRM's Bloodraven, GRRM gives us a character named Kurz who accompanies Yoren, Arya and the gang from King's Landing up to the Wall (Bloodraven went from King's Landing to the Wall as well).

This particular passage regarding Kurz caught my attention:

Seems a tad similar to the Weirwood paste that Bloodraven has the Children make for Bran, no?

Its a nice catch about the paste, and of course the name Kurz was considered by Conrad before settling on Kurtz.

[FoolishOwl]

This is interesting. The comparison hadn't occurred to me, but it's suggestive.

I wonder if we might want to think about Jon Snow as Lord Jim.

[wolfmaid7]

I get a lot of the comparison,though i can't say the conclusion is what i think it is.Its mainly with the assertion again that the darkness involved in this story is "bad" which i don't think it is. I think its neccssary and natural,but that isn't to say that their aren't characters in the story that are evil or have "bad" intention only that when it comes to creatures like the COTF or the WWs we can't just say they are "bad". I still don't buy the wws as Craster's sons but for the purpose of the OP a proper label would be "alteration" instead of corruption(negative) seeing as the wws have remained enigmatic and majorily invisible since Ser Puddles unfortunate mishap with Sam and Co.

Again i have no doubt that when it comes to the little tree huggers/BR/wws darkness is a strong theme but the classification of Darkness as horrific when it comes to this story may be an incorrect assunption.So we may wan't to look at it in terms of the story and wheter or not GRRM means it as negative,positive or grey.

[aDanceWithFlagons]

I get a lot of the comparison,though i can't say the conclusion is what i think it is.Its mainly with the assertion again that the darkness involved in this story is "bad" which i don't think it is. I think its neccssary and natural,but that isn't to say that their aren't characters in the story that are evil or have "bad" intention only that when it comes to creatures like the COTF or the WWs we can't just say they are "bad". I still don't buy the wws as Craster's sons but for the purpose of the OP a proper label would be "alteration" instead of corruption(negative) seeing as the wws have remained enigmatic and majorily invisible since Ser Puddles unfortunate mishap with Sam and Co.

Again i have no doubt that when it comes to the little tree huggers/BR/wws darkness is a strong theme but the classification of Darkness as horrific when it comes to this story may be an incorrect assunption.So we may wan't to look at it in terms of the story and wheter or not GRRM means it as negative,positive or grey.

I guess the characters in the north are not downright evil evil. The Long Night though, I would say was horrific. Eternal Darkness is a terrible concept. I am not saying the Long Night could have meant forever, but then again maybe it could.

[Mace Cooterian]

Again i have no doubt that when it comes to the little tree huggers/BR/wws darkness is a strong theme but the classification of Darkness as horrific when it comes to this story may be an incorrect assunption.So we may wan't to look at it in terms of the story and wheter or not GRRM means it as negative,positive or grey.

wm7...you are spot on with this comment (IMHO) when we talk about things north of the wall.

In my most transparent opinion.....I simply don't think we "readers" have enough information to base an opinion. I do hope that Black Crow is correct and that many blanks will be filled in when the World Book is relased.

[wolfmaid7]

I guess the characters in the north are not downright evil evil. The Long Night though, I would say was horrific. Eternal Darkness is a terrible concept. I am not saying the Long Night could have meant forever, but then again maybe it could.

Well sure the Long Night was horrific the same could be said for if there is a Long Summer or a Long Fall or a Long Spring.Seasons should not last longer than their cycle.Seeing as we've only had history from the point of view of humans in the land,we really can't say how long they are suppossed to be. I'm fairly certain we will get this from Bran because the Weirwood trees have kept a longer and more accurate record than the Maesters.

[wolfmaid7]

wm7...you are spot on with this comment (IMHO) when we talk about things north of the wall.

In my most transparent opinion.....I simply don't think we "readers" have enough information to base an opinion. I do hope that Black Crow is correct and that many blanks will be filled in when the World Book is relased.

One of the things i've considered is that we have an account of the history of the land yet to be revealed by the trees "who remember" which is clearly telling us that somebody forgot something.I'm not even sure about what the World Book will reveal when it comes to anything else but from the eyes of people.Sure i think they'll be some info sewn in there that may reveal something,but more than anything i want see through the eyes of someone who is seeing through the eyes of the accurate repository of the land. We've seen hints in what Bran/BR have said and haven't said when it comes to this.Over and over we have heard winter is coming and that there is a declaration of it's going to happen you can't stop it because it suppose to. So as in real life what do people do,what do animals do when they see and feel the changes of the season? They prepare!!!!

[Black Crow]

I get a lot of the comparison,though i can't say the conclusion is what i think it is.Its mainly with the assertion again that the darkness involved in this story is "bad" which i don't think it is. I think its neccssary and natural,but that isn't to say that their aren't characters in the story that are evil or have "bad" intention only that when it comes to creatures like the COTF or the WWs we can't just say they are "bad". I still don't buy the wws as Craster's sons but for the purpose of the OP a proper label would be "alteration" instead of corruption(negative) seeing as the wws have remained enigmatic and majorily invisible since Ser Puddles unfortunate mishap with Sam and Co.

Again i have no doubt that when it comes to the little tree huggers/BR/wws darkness is a strong theme but the classification of Darkness as horrific when it comes to this story may be an incorrect assunption.So we may wan't to look at it in terms of the story and wheter or not GRRM means it as negative,positive or grey.

Ah but once again this is something inherent in Conrad's story and why I would again urge anybody who hasn't re-read it lately to do so now, with ASoIF in mind. Good and evil are relative and darkness likewise, which is why Conrad invokes comparison with the Romans in Britain and is dealing with a clash of cultures and its consequences in which in GRRM's version arises from the intrusion of men into the forest culture of Westeros, just as Coppola transferred it to Vietnam.

[King Tyrion XX]

So both Heresies are going at the same time?

[Black Crow]

This is interesting. The comparison hadn't occurred to me, but it's suggestive.

I wonder if we might want to think about Jon Snow as Lord Jim.

Its an intriguing idea, but on the whole I think not as we're not looking for his "redemption" but rather a more active role in the resolution of this business, which is why I wonder how the Kurtz business is going to pan out.

In Conrad's original, Marlow gets the dying Kurtz on to the steamer, abandoning the tribesmen. In Coppola's version Willard is sent to terminate Kurtz who as in the original is not only venerated as a god but running amok with his own private army and thereby causing things to spiral out of control.

The point being that in both versions, the manager, needs to have Kurtz stopped, whether by fetching him back down the river in the original or killing him in Coppola's version. In GRRM's version it is the crow who sends Bran into the interior to find Bloodraven/Kurtz and deal with the horror. However I think this might also explain the ambiguity as to whether or not Bloodraven is indeed the three-eyed crow, because Kurtz is of course mad, or rather schizophrenic. On the one hand he is away with the faeries, but in his moments of lucidity only too aware of the horror. Is the crow Bloodraven's last shreds of humanity. Does Bloodraven want Bran to end the horror, or will that task fall to Jon as Willard?

[Black Crow]

So both Heresies are going at the same time?

Heresy 136 is the current one, yes, but 135 is still open pending any new information granted to us about the hammer and about the crannogmen in the World Book due out end of next month.

[King of Winters]

Since I was told the parallel between Bloodraven, Bran and the Heart of Darkness I've been even more fascinated by the story Beyond the Wall and wondering just how far they are similar to one another.

I just wonder if Bran will end up killing Bloodraven, or if the Singers tell him to. In any case I think we'll see the Singers and Bloodraven trying to recruit Bran in their real goal as Kutz did.

[Black Crow]

Since I was told the parallel between Bloodraven, Bran and the Heart of Darkness I've been even more fascinated by the story Beyond the Wall and wondering just how far they are similar to one another.

I just wonder if Bran will end up killing Bloodraven, or if the Singers tell him to. In any case I think we'll see the Singers and Bloodraven trying to recruit Bran in their real goal as Kutz did.

Yes and once again I can't stress too highly the importance of reading Conrad, because I think that the Heart of Darkness really is the key to what's happening beyond the Wall. Bran is certainly intended as the replacement for the dying Kurtz, and while Kurtz ordered the ambush on the steamer to prevent his being taken away I'd suggest that Bloodraven was behind the ambush on the Scooby Gang to prevent Bran getting away.

As to what happens next I don't know. Perhaps Bran must kill Bloodraven to become Kurtz and then Jon kill Kurtz to end the horror, thereby dooming the children.

[Black Crow]

I still don't buy the wws as Craster's sons but for the purpose of the OP a proper label would be "alteration" instead of corruption(negative) seeing as the wws have remained enigmatic and majorily invisible since Ser Puddles unfortunate mishap with Sam and Co.

Whether we use the terms corrupted, altered or changed doesn't really matter, because the point of Conrad's story is that the big bad is not something external, but that the darkness lies within and the demons made of snow and ice and cold* are not some icy Dothraki horde, but Craster's sons - humans.

Indeed in that context it might be argued that Ramsay Snow's hunting of maidens is not a reflection of of the white walkers, but that they reflect the evil within him.

* © Stannis Baratheon