Black Crow Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 And with that I'll put this one to bed, and myself too. See you over on the next one - mis-numbered 138 but still carrying on this important discussion on the Kings of Winter. And if you think we're having fun now, just wait until a week on Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirwood in the North Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hello Heretics! Longtime lurker, first time poster. I loveeee the heresy threads! You guys are amazing :bowdown:The lores, the wall and the Watch, North and the Starks are some of my favorites part of asoiaf and you guys do an amazing job of unravelling the mysteries around them :cheers:Sorry if I am OT, I saw you guys discussing about the Stark expansion in the north and I wanted to ask what do you make of the Bolton-Stark rivalry time-line wise. The excerpt says, it started during the Long Night. But if the Starks were already established during the Long Night then where does Bran the Builder building the Wall and Winterfell and establishing House Stark fit into this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 This actually chimes with something I've been thinking about here. A problem I have with the R+L=J business is not the fact itself [assuming that its so] but the significance of it. Given that this is the song of Ice and Fire the Iron Throne is irrelevant in a struggle waged since time began. What really troubles me is the Azor Ahai business and the confident expectation that Jon Snow will be recognised as the same. The problem, as we've discussed before is that whoever Azor Ahai turns out to be is the champion of light and of fire and defeating the Others far from saving Westeros will merely usher in a fiery rather than an icy hell. This might therefore suggest that Mel got it wrong and that Azor Ahai and the Prince that was Promised are not one and the same and that while Azor Ahai is the champion of Light, the Prince was promised to restore the balance by defeating both Ice and Fire. So if for the sake of argument we assume this is so then Jon might indeed be the Prince that was Promised and that his role is to defeat both Azor Ahai [Dany?] and the Last Greenseer... I suspect though that its going to be rather more complicated.Bingo!Azor Ahai is the champion of mankind against both ice and fire. You hit the nail on the head.In which case, Jon is not Azor Ahai. Didn't GRRM say that AA and the Prince are the same person, by the way?I'm going to say it: Jaime is Azor Ahai in my opinion. If zJon is both ice and fire, he can't defeat himself, obviously.So we have Jaime representing mankind and Jon trying to balance all these different factions, especially if Dany doesn't fight the Others but joins them.Look at this way. The Citadel--the realm of mankind--is intent on wiping out magic because it has no place in a rational world. They already succeeded in exterminating the dragons once. They didn't get the Others because no one has seen them in 8000 years.This is why I lean towards Bran leading the Others. He has a score to settle with Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Bingo!Azor Ahai is the champion of mankind against both ice and fire. You hit the nail on the head.In which case, Jon is not Azor Ahai. Didn't GRRM say that AA and the Prince are the same person, by the way?I'm going to say it: Jaime is Azor Ahai in my opinion. If zJon is both ice and fire, he can't defeat himself, obviously.So we have Jaime representing mankind and Jon trying to balance all these different factions, especially if Dany doesn't fight the Others but joins them.Look at this way. The Citadel--the realm of mankind--is intent on wiping out magic because it has no place in a rational world. They already succeeded in exterminating the dragons once. They didn't get the Others because no one has seen them in 8000 years. Magic is a vital natural force in Planetos, and there is no reason for either ice or fire to just lay down and take it.This is why I lean towards Bran leading the Others. He has a score to settle with Jaime.Bloodraven, too, is both ice and fire.Dang it, sorry for the double post. On my phone and having a hard time. Lol Read this one, not the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion XX Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Meanwhile, Lady Dustin (heiress to the Barrow lands if I'm not mistaken), has been sleuthing about the crypts below Winterfell, fondling the statue of The Ned's brother Brandon (her long lost lover), which earlier had been smoked/burnt with a torch and splashed with Maester Lewin's blood when Shaggydog bit him the day after Ned's ghost had visited Bran and Rickon's dreams...So Ned's brother Brandon is Azor Ahai? I can probably dig that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Frye Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 What I must say about this thread that everything was 'all right'. All quite correct. Everyone has behaved splendidly! splendidly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 What I must say about this thread that everything was 'all right'. All quite correct. Everyone has behaved splendidly! splendidly! Hooray!I have a non heresy question. Is the fire prevention representative Smacky the Frog across the pond, or was Hedberg pulling our leg?Also, the talk about the Starks taking out the other 'magical' clans of old and absorbing them into their own blood... makes me think of this well known line'There can be only one!'I wasn't actually directing this at just you Frye Guy. Except for the Hooray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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