Will Jon become a darker character?

[Guard of the Rainking]

I think Bran is more like the Last Hero,just like in Old Nan's story the LH searched for the children to save man. The Night's King was a LC so I think Jon is the higher candidate to be a new NK.

I dunno. For me Bran is too much of a goody two-shoes character to be the ultimate hero, at least for now.

[Red Wedding Cake]

All the Starks will become darker. Even Rickon.

[Attitude]

ok calm down

I am perfectly calm. I am just showing it to you.

Actually you just made me shiver. If it's (quite) literall forshadowing, it looks like Jon is going to warg into Ghost permanently.

[sj4iy]

Not so much 'darker' as a man of resolve. I think he will be less forgiving and more willing to do what he must to defeat the Others and save Westeros. But I don't think he will become 'dark' like some people think. I don't see him turning into a bloodthirsty white walker with no mercy. That's just ridiculous. Jon will still be Jon. Just grown up.

[sj4iy]

I am perfectly calm. I am just showing it to you.

Actually you just made me shiver. If it's (quite) literall forshadowing, it looks like Jon is going to warg into Ghost permanently.

...and what about the part where he turns into a man again?

The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again.

I mean, that seems very clear foreshadowing to me that Jon doesn't stay a wolf. Plus it seems a bit ridiculous that he would stay a wolf for the rest of the story, when it's very obvious he still has stuff to do.

[TheHouseHB]

I hope so I want to Jon to go all Rambo and shit in the last two books on anyone who has wronged the Starks.

[Panther2000]

I have to agree with The Bastard of CR: & also, what Jon kept saying, "KILL THE BOY". I do think that he will become darker but it won't change his CORE. He is a good man with a soul. I think that he will become more determined to get whatever job he puts his mind to. He will see it done, and will let nothing stand in his way. I also, see him also not becoming a Wilding, but getting their point of view more.

Case in Point: The NW vows, it is just black & white with no room for grey ( Follow or die). If they are to following the NW rules, then:

1) all of the wildings would die, and become a bigger dander not only to The Wall but everyone.

2) All The Nightswatch would be dead. I do believe that at lot of the Wildings will get pass the wall at different parts of the Wall & come & over take the few remaing NW. Therefore, opening the gate & letting EVERYBODY & anbody through.

3) Then with everyone becoming a walker the army only gets bigger as they pass the wall. & that would include over running Stannis's army, & Every army in their way.

What is that saying about EGGS( not Dunk & Eggs ), but the bigger picture. Though, the men took vows. They will end up Dying by those vows & taking Millions along with them.

Jon sees this but a lot of his brothers don't. It is just like NED, he had his honor & did his job. However, in the end it destroyed his family, everyone in Winterfell & it got him killed.

I don't think that Jon will following a lot of those orders anymore. He will stay & Protect, but he will be doing it his way (VOWS be damned). Then they for sure be callilng him a WILDING.

[Robb_Warged]

I think the theory would pretty much be: Arya = new Jaqen, Sansa = new Littlefinger, Bran = new Bloodraven, Jon = new Night's King. I actually see Bran as more likely than Jon, because he has already turned darker by warging into Summer and hunting and using Hodor's body possibly against his will.

Good points

[Mithras]

“They say you forget,” Haggon had told him, a few weeks before his own death. “When the man’s flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades, and the beast becomes a little less a warg, a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains.” (A Dance With Dragons - Prologue)

GRRM has already set up warging as a potentially corruptive and dangerous experience for the spirit. He has also set up Jon warging into Ghost just after the stabbing in several different moments of foreshadowing, including Jon's ironic thought "I am not a wolf" (Jon VI - ADWD).

I feel that when and if Jon's consciousness is restored to a human body again, he will have become a darker character - his experience as an animal having compromised his morality and his sense of honour. This would also see him as the latest Stark to embrace their darker side: Catelyn as Stoneheart, Arya as an assassin, Bran as potentially working with dark forces, and Sansa as potentially becoming a manipulative political player (especially given the show's latest portrayal of her arc).

How would this affect his decisions and his relationships with those around him, especially given the presumed turmoil that is about to ensue at the Wall? Is the Jon we have known throughout the series now gone?

“I fear no ghosts. Dragons are more powerful than ghosts.”

Hence, Jon's self will not dissipate into Ghost's.

[sj4iy]

I have to agree with The Bastard of CR: & also, what Jon kept saying, "KILL THE BOY". I do think that he will become darker but it won't change his CORE. He is a good man with a soul. I think that he will become more determined to get whatever job he puts his mind to. He will see it done, and will let nothing stand in his way. I also, see him also not becoming a Wilding, but getting their point of view more.

Case in Point: The NW vows, it is just black & white with no room for grey ( Follow or die). If they are to following the NW rules, then:

1) all of the wildings would die, and become a bigger dander not only to The Wall but everyone.

2) All The Nightswatch would be dead. I do believe that at lot of the Wildings will get pass the wall at different parts of the Wall & come & over take the few remaing NW. Therefore, opening the gate & letting EVERYBODY & anbody through.

3) Then with everyone becoming a walker the army only gets bigger as they pass the wall. & that would include over running Stannis's army, & Every army in their way.

What is that saying about EGGS( not Dunk & Eggs ), but the bigger picture. Though, the men took vows. They will end up Dying by those vows & taking Millions along with them.

Jon sees this but a lot of his brothers don't. It is just like NED, he had his honor & did his job. However, in the end it destroyed his family, everyone in Winterfell & it got him killed.

I don't think that Jon will following a lot of those orders anymore. He will stay & Protect, but he will be doing it his way (VOWS be damned). Then they for sure be callilng him a WILDING.

There's nothing at all in the NW vows that say that they can't help the Wildlings. There's nothing in the NW vows that say anything about keeping out of the politics of the realm.

A lot of people read 'rules' in the NW oath that were never in there.

[DireGhost]

Also the last word he says is 'Ghost...'

Wasn't Robb's last word also "Greywind"?

Maybe both of them were saying that because at that moment they both regretted not having their direwolves there to protect them?

[addicted to snow]

I mean, that seems very clear foreshadowing to me that Jon doesn't stay a wolf. Plus it seems a bit ridiculous that he would stay a wolf for the rest of the story, when it's very obvious he still has stuff to do.

Stuff to do like securing the role of the most powerful bad-guy in the series...

[Minstral]

Wasn't Robb's last word also "Greywind"?

Maybe both of them were saying that because at that moment they both regretted not having their direwolves there to protect them?

Varamyr's last thoughts before he dies were also about of seeking his wolf pack. It could be that connection manifesting the strongest in death.

[sj4iy]

Stuff to do like securing the role of the most powerful bad-guy in the series...

I think thou doth protest too much on that score.

[Minstral]

I would think that Black is about as dark as you can get B)

There is a lot of positive aspects that GRRM associated with the ire wolves prior to up to AFFC, but in ADWD he introduces a new one. Summer and Nymeria are seen to eat human flesh while it is hinted that Shaggydog does as well (I think). For all the nobility and positive attributes that we can see in the Stark warg mates, they are also pack leaders that eat humans so that they, and by extension the pack, can grow strong. Furthermore, Bran and Arya participate in the human feasting while they are warging their respective wolves, something that is identified as an abominable act to (to some wildings).

If Jon is inside Ghost in order to survive, and then later comes out of the state, there is a strong chance that he would change. Early on we are told, in the case of Bran, that a part of Summer is Brandon just as much as a part of Bran is Summer. I look forward to learning more about the connection, and hope to find out if it works both ways.

[Panther2000]

There's nothing at all in the NW vows that say that they can't help the Wildlings. There's nothing in the NW vows that say anything about keeping out of the politics of the realm.

A lot of people read 'rules' in the NW oath that were never in there.

Right, there is nothing in their vows saying that they can't help. In fact the are suppose to help and protect the RELM of MEN.

As far as the politics goes, I think it says that they can't get involved in their wars ( they can't take sides). Actually, if you don't take a side, you in fact taking a side.

The NW men( some of them ) did not want to let them through the wall ( Help them), they wanted to keep them on the other side of the wall, Hence leaving them to die & become Walkers.

That is what I mean about helping them.

And, this is something that Jon has issues with he feels himself being pulled into the war for stannis. He says he isn't taking a side, but by giving stannis men(wildings), food & Weapons he is helping Stannis. I don't even have to mention Stannis trying to make Jon A Stark.

The other Relms believe that he has taken stannis's side( even though it isn't true). Jon has taken Stannis's side just not officially. At least that is they way I see it.

[Julia H.]

I think it's the general situation that is getting darker (more and more chaotic and dangerous), and Jon will have to adapt, so he will be more determined, more bitter, more practical, more maverick. He'll have even more responsibility, and in ASOIAF it is likely to mean more blood on his hands. But I'm sure he will continue to protect the realm and its people, and if the vow should stand in his way, so much worse for the vow.

About warging... I think it is a gift that Jon will have to learn to make better use of. Obviously, there are risks, but Ghost has always had a positive influence over him, Ghost has helped him choose what is right several times, so I'm not worried about that too much as long as Jon has a living human body to return to.

[addicted to snow]

How would this affect his decisions and his relationships with those around him, especially given the presumed turmoil that is about to ensue at the Wall? Is the Jon we have known throughout the series now gone?

Like you suggested, Jon will be more 'Wolfish'... He will be more vengeful, more ill tempered, less respectful, the list goes on...

While giving an interview about a year ago, GRRM sid that he was working on TWOW, and he gave an example of the writing complexities that he faces daily. I can't find the exact quote, but he said something like "You've got Jon Snow running through the woods, pursued by enemies, what is he going to eat?"

I think that GRRM had pre-planed this statement before the interview to give readers a controversial glimpse @ TWOW (& thus sell more magazines or whatever the interview was for). I think he was referring to Jon Snow in Ghost North of the Wall, pursued by enemies...

So what does Jon eat?

Any guesses anyone? I'm taking two guesses:

1. Jojen

Bloodraven

[nmrch]

i doubt it, he's been through quite a bit of trauma already and it only seems to have been making him more mature and reasonable. Just look at all the father figures/mentors/friends he's lost already, including one he killed with his own hands. And then look at his experiences with Ygritte and the wildlings, there's not a whole lot of evidence that suggests that he's being significantly effected by all the horrible things that are happening to him.

[sj4iy]

Like you suggested, Jon will be more 'Wolfish'... He will be more vengeful, more ill tempered, less respectful, the list goes on...

While giving an interview about a year ago, GRRM sid that he was working on TWOW, and he gave an example of the writing complexities that he faces daily. I can't find the exact quote, but he said something like "You've got Jon Snow running through the woods, pursued by enemies, what is he going to eat?"

I think that GRRM had pre-planed this statement before the interview to give readers a controversial glimpse @ TWOW (& thus sell more magazines or whatever the interview was for). I think he was referring to Jon Snow in Ghost North of the Wall, pursued by enemies...

So what does Jon eat?

Any guesses anyone? I'm taking two guesses:

• Jojen
• Bloodraven

I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here.