Mithras Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Many people simply ignore the fact that Nissa Nissa was the one who made the sacrifice (her life) in the tale, not AA. Surely, Drogo cannot qualify as Nissa Nissa given that he was a vegetable who cannot make a sacrifice consciously. People have varying candidates for AAR, Lightbringer and Nissa Nissa. If one assumes that the Lightbringer has to be forged again, then this simple fact about the sacrifice of Nissa Nissa is important to remember. Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I totally agree. If Lightbringer is actually a sword it will likely be Ice reforged and Jon will temper it with the sacrifice of his Nissa Nissa. The question then is, who is his Nissa Nissa? I would think it would have to be Daenerys, Val or possibly Ghost... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword of the Morgan Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Yes, I agree. I think a sacrifice will be made, and I would like to see it as Jaime sacrificing Brienne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I think the story of Azor Ahai is an allegory for the forging of either the orginal Ice or Dawn(from the heart of a meteor/Nissa Nissa) . But just because the original Lightbringer was forged in that way doesn't mean the new Lightbringer must be forged the same way . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynned Lannistark Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Not sure Nissa Nissa really had anything to say about it.It was AA who did the sacrifice of his loved one, and perhaps also committed murder - this is not fully clear from the story. In any case, Drogo cannot be Nissa Nissa as he was not sacrificed. He got into his condition due to infection, and Dany killed him because she couldn't bare to leave him in this situation. There was no sacrifice. At that point she didnt really have what to sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I totally agree. If Lightbringer is actually a sword it will likely be Ice reforged and Jon will temper it with the sacrifice of his Nissa Nissa. The question then is, who is his Nissa Nissa? I would think it would have to be Daenerys, Val or possibly Ghost... :) I would say Arya, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I would say Arya, myself. Certainly another possibility! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanset Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I agree, Drogo couldn't be the sacrifice, but Rhaego could qualify as "the sacrifice" because Dany really loves her baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Certainly another possibility! :) I could see it happen this way because I could see a situation where Arya would agree to give her life (sort of as a redemption) and Jon would be giving Arya mercy. I find the idea poetic, at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 I agree, Drogo couldn't be the sacrifice, but Rhaego could qualify as "the sacrifice" because Dany really loves her baby. My point is that AA didnot make the sacrifice, Nissa Nissa did. So, Rhaego is just as unqualifying as Nissa Nissa as Drogo. Melisandre said, “Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer with the heart’s blood of his own beloved wife. If a man with a thousand cows gives one to god, that is nothing. But a man who offers the only cow he owns . . .” Mel is definitely wrong. Nissa Nissa was not a chattle. Her life belonged to herself and the idea of a sacrifice requires that she willingly let go her life, not got tricked or murdered by AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I totally agree. If Lightbringer is actually a sword it will likely be Ice reforged and Jon will temper it with the sacrifice of his Nissa Nissa. The question then is, who is his Nissa Nissa? I would think it would have to be Daenerys, Val or possibly Ghost... :) Ghost is high on my list of suspects for Nissa Nissa. i think Ghost is going to be sacrificed, whether that makes him Nissa Nissa or not, we shall see. I would say Arya, myself. I can't even entertain this idea because it just makes me unbelievably sad. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaceGardener Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 From the tales we're told so far, Nissa Nissa didn't do much of her own volition. Azor Ahai said "hey wife, c'mere" and she said "kay." He said "bare your breast" and she said "uh... kay." And then he stabbed her. He never said "I'm gonna sacrifice you to set this sword on fire, we good?" She was just mindlessly obedient and he pretty much murdered her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanset Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 My point is that AA didnot make the sacrifice, Nissa Nissa did. So, Rhaego is just as unqualifying as Nissa Nissa as Drogo. Melisandre said, “Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer with the heart’s blood of his own beloved wife. If a man with a thousand cows gives one to god, that is nothing. But a man who offers the only cow he owns . . .” Mel is definitely wrong. Nissa Nissa was not a chattle. Her life belonged to herself and the idea of a sacrifice requires that she willingly let go her life, not got tricked or murdered by AA. I see your point, but all that «bloodshed» led to the night that «came alive with the music of dragons». Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 I see your point, but all that «bloodshed» led to the night that «came alive with the music of dragons». The tale of Nissa Nissa makes more sense if we take the third attempt as childbirth and Dany is the mother of dragons, which makes her Nissa Nissa rather than AA. Dany died and was reborn after giving birth to the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I can't even entertain this idea because it just makes me unbelievably sad. :( It makes me sad, too, but it could also be very beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeimantus Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 A sacrifice doesn't require the willing consent of the victim. It can, but it's by no means a necessity. Isaac wasn't presented as a willing almost-victim of Abraham. Certainly, many of the sacrifices by the Mayas and Aztecs were done without the victims' consent.Basically, we can group sacrifices into two groups: self-sacrifice and forced sacrifice of another. Then those two groups can split into religious and nonreligious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 A sacrifice doesn't require the willing consent of the victim. It can, but it's by no means a necessity. Isaac wasn't presented as a willing almost-victim of Abraham. Certainly, many of the sacrifices by the Mayas and Aztecs were done without the victims' consent.Basically, we can group sacrifices into two groups: self-sacrifice and forced sacrifice of another. Then those two groups can split into religious and nonreligious. Nissa Nissa's sacrifice does not look like AA tricked her or forced her to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makrell Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 i dont see any evidence for nissa nissa to be consentual. IMO the story is better if AA had to male the choice fully by himself. Please present a qoute for nissa nissa having consented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 i dont see any evidence for nissa nissa to be consentual. IMO the story is better if AA had to male the choice fully by himself.Please present a qoute for nissa nissa having consented AA spent months in making a sword to fight the darkness which was the main concern at that time. Nissa Nissa probably saw the first two failed attempts. When AA forged the blade third time and told her to open her breast with that words sounding like a good bye, we can be pretty sure that Nissa Nissa knew what she has to do and she must have done that willingly. Note that this is the case when we take the forging of the Lightbringer story at face value. I already stated that I buy the metaphoric meaning of the tale in which Nissa Nissa gave birth to a child. So, the consent is there too in conceving the child and the sacrifice is in carrying that child and probably dying in childbirth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 i dont see any evidence for nissa nissa to be consentual. IMO the story is better if AA had to male the choice fully by himself. Please present a qoute for nissa nissa having consented He asked her to bare her breast and know that he loved her best of anything in the world while holding a sword. She consented to do so. I seriously doubt she didn't know what was coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.