93 replies to this topic

[Werthead]

Well, the Dunk & Egg stories are taking place during the time of the Blackfyre generations between Daemon and Maelys, and I strongly suspect the penultimate D&E story will take place during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, so George may want to keep the options open for who the Blackfyres are during the preceding generations in case they turn up or (more likely) get mentioned.

One thing I'm puzzled about is that there were 'five generations' between Daemon and Maelys, yet it's only about 60 years at maximum. Surely it could only be two or three at the most? Either that or Catelyn liked the phrase, inaccurate as it was.

[Ran]

Specifically, she says the Blackfyres troubled five generations of Targaryens.

I think she was counting by the generations of the royal family. Speaking broadly, from Daemon on down to Maelys, we're looking at Aegon the Unworthy (where Blackfyre first started causing problems for House Targaryen, thanks to Aegon's unworthiness), his son Daeron the Good, his sons Aerys I and Maekar I,  Maekar's son Aegon V, and if we stretch it a little, his sons Prince Duncan and Prince Jaehaerys (both who were certainly of age to be involved in the War of the Ninepenny Kings in some capacity).

[Barba]

considering MUSH conquest of Dorne

Do you think you could ask george to consider reading it and maybe accepting it, or at least with some changes.

I read some of it, and it really sounds interesting

It's a longshot, mainly because we all know how protective George is about Westeros.

Edited by Barba, 01 November 2006 - 11:35 AM.

[Lord Varys]

Something I would like to see is a detailed chronology of the first decades of the Targaryen reign. Meaning the years from Aegon I. to Viserys I.

Why joined Aegon and his sister the Faith before they started their conquest?

Important: Names and ages of all Targaryen dragons till Aegon III.! Every non-Targaryen woman that married in the house. All houses who got Targaryen princesses.

How was the role of Aegon's sisters at court? Did any of them outlived him, or even Aenys I.? Women are supposed to live longer than men, even in Westeros ;-). How many daughters had Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys together? Was Aenys I. married to one of his sisters? Was one queen of Maegor I. (his first?) his sister, and did he killed her, too?
Why got Aenys I. the Iron Throne in the first place? Did Aegon I. loved him most, or was it some plot by courtiers, his mother, or other forces? How did Aenys I. die? Was it murder? If so - was Maegor involved?

Who orchestrated the rebellion after Aegon's I. death? Was the Faith the only force behind it? Was there a different policy under Aenys I. than under Maegor - as the Hand became King it appears not that likely? Was Maegor even Hand under Aegon I.?

Did Aenys's sister-wife outlived her husband and Maegor? Took Maegor her to wife, too ;-)?

Some great deeds of Jaehaerys's reign: How old was he when he took over? What changed under his rule? Maegor and Aegon I. appear to have taken more direct influence in the politics of the realm.
Had he any brothers or sisters? All children of Alysanne and Jaehaerys. Don't know if that belongs to the DoD-thing: Why married Viserys I. no Targaryen woman? There must have been suitable sisters, cousins, aunts ;-).

A general thing: Am I mistaken, or are Targaryen regularily mad when their eyes are a very deep purple?

Maybe a thing about Jaehaerys II.: Why is his left arm hidden on Amok's portrait? Is it burned ;-)?

How many people were (believed to be) murdered/poisoned by Viserys II. ;-)?

Some things from the Dunk & Egg stories: How died Egg's mother/Maekar's sister-wife (?)? How many daughters had Daeron the Good? One for each son, or even more?

A none Targaryen question: Include the name of Doran's mother? She was important in this Lannister-Martell-strife for prestige ;-).

And do we know that Ned's mother was not a sister of Jaeharys II. ;-)?

Edit: Targaryens in the Night's Watch (and why), Targaryens as Maesters, Grand Maesters and Archmaesters (if there were any), Targaryens as Septons and Septas (especially Targaryens as High Septons - if there were any) and Targaryens in the Kingsguard.

And, most important, their role as ruling (?) House in Valyria. Maybe the names of some powerful Targaryen sorcerers in Valyria - if there were any ;-).
If Valyria was similar organized as the (late) Roman Republic, it would be intersting if the Targaryens were an Ancient House or some kind of homines novi...

Aegon's parents and grandparents would be intersting, too. Maybe even the Targaryens living during the Doom and there role in it - if they sat not simply on Dragonstone.

Edited by Lord Varys, 17 November 2006 - 02:37 PM.

[Ran]

Varys,

Quote

Why joined Aegon and his sister the Faith before they started their conquest?

The first Targaryens who came to Dragonstone were the ones who converted. By the time Aegon and his sisters were born, the Targaryens had been worshipping the Seven for something like 200 years.

[Lord Varys]

Quote

The first Targaryens who came to Dragonstone were the ones who converted. By the time Aegon and his sisters were born, the Targaryens had been worshipping the Seven for something like 200 years.

Interesting. I didn't know that. And I don't remember a passage in the books about that. Did GRRM said so? I thought it was Aegon who converted, but now I remember that the figures Stannis burned were made out of the wood of the ships that brought the Targaryens to Dragonstone.
It's rather unlikely that the figures should have been made two hundred years later from that particular wood ;-).

One thing: If GRRM says something about Aegon's forefathers it would be intersting if they were already convinced of their extraordinary blood and special role in the future (dreams etc.). They were content with Dragonstone till Aegon (or, probably, till Visenya ;-)) said GRRM recently, but their incest was an old valyrian tradition, so it would be intersting to know what kind of people they were.
And they had to breed new dragons, hadn't they? When the Doom took Valyria they came to Dragonstone without any living dragon?

Edited by Lord Varys, 17 November 2006 - 04:12 PM.

[Ran]

We'll see what we'll be able to get from GRRM on the subject. :)

[Fenryng]

So, purely out of curiosity, and not at all because I have the patience of your average tsetse fly, what are the odds of you, Ran, ever doing some sort of update on what general stage the book is at, or what aspect of it you are currently working on?  I presume that the latter part of my question would perhaps be more likely of the two, if either.  I presume you would follow in George's footsteps of politely saying, I am still working on it.  :)

[Ran]

Hah, well, yes, we're definitely still working on it. I'm still filling out historical stuff, between other RL and on-line work. The book isn't really going to get into high gear until George is done with ADwD, I expect, although at some point before that we're hoping to start getting notes from his files so we can fill out even more historical stuff that isn't yet generally known. ;)

I can say that some significant movement has taken place on the artwork front, in terms of getting artists under contract and things like the number and types of maps we'll be having, and George very recently sent out a lengthy description of a certain place/person/thing to a certain artist (and us) which was enlightening to our geeky selves.

We're hoping to see initial sketches down the road, and are awaiting it with great excitement. :)

Edited by Ran, 27 February 2007 - 07:41 PM.

[The hairy bear]

Lengthy descriptions, new information, 'enlightnement',... :drool:

So up to now we've got:
-A name for the eastern continent
-One or three historical maps (a map of the pre-andalish kingdoms would make my day), and some city maps (Braavos? Oldtown? Sunspear? Perhaps also White Harbour?)
-More info on the Bleeding Years and the Grand Alliance
-A star chart, divided into the twelve houses of the heavens
-A couple of pages from the White book
-And Targaryen tree (probably complete!). That's the one i'm more eager for. Once I did this gentree for the family with all the needed unknown Targs. Any chance I'll be able to complete it?

[Ran]

The star chart was a proposed thing, and I think now unlikely to happen. The White Book pages are also proposed, and their status is less certain. I think they'd be neat, but we'll have to see what room is left in the art budget after maps, various pieces of art, and heraldry. :)

[Stieglitz]

The hairy bear, on Feb 28 2007, 11.32, said:

-And Targaryen tree (probably complete!). That's the one i'm more eager for. Once I did this gentree for the family with all the needed unknown Targs. Any chance I'll be able to complete it?

A full Targaryen family would be awesome.  

You have to login to see your tree hairy bear. Could you perhaps host it elsewhere, please ?

[The hairy bear]

Stieglitz, on Feb 28 2007, 14.27, said:

You have to login to see your tree hairy bear. Could you perhaps host it elsewhere, please ?

Damn. Sorry, I hope this one works better...

[Stieglitz]

The hairy bear, on Feb 28 2007, 15.25, said:

Damn. Sorry, I hope this one works better...

works.

I always wanted to do a tree, too. Yours is pretty good. I never knew that Aegon II hat three siblings.  If you are still working on it, you could add Orys Baratheon and Maelys the Monstrous. And somewhere a 3 Velaryon is missing, but I have no idea where.

[Arataniello]

Stieglitz, on Feb 28 2007, 11.27, said:

I never knew that Aegon II hat three siblings.

There are some snippets of information sent to Amok to flesh out the background to the Dance of Dragons.  In those, GRRM supplied a little family information about the chidlren of Viserys I.

Aratan

[Stieglitz]

Aratan, on Feb 28 2007, 20.30, said:

There are some snippets of information sent to Amok to flesh out the background to the Dance of Dragons.  In those, GRRM supplied a little family information about the chidlren of Viserys I.

Aratan

I guess the information is posted somewhere in Amok's forums ? I searched but did not find it. Do you have a link ?

[Arataniello]

Stieglitz, on Mar 1 2007, 12.02, said:

I guess the information is posted somewhere in Amok's forums ? I searched but did not find it. Do you have a link ?

http://www.westeros..../Month/2006/06/

Aratan

[Fenryng]

It occurred to me that, while we frequently get the years that someone reigned, in the case of the Targs, we almost never have even the slightest indication of when they were born.  I realize that George has issues with people putting exact ages to people, but I was wondering what the odds were of getting at least a "Born in the year of..." as well as the year that they shuffled off this mortal coil?

[Fenryng]

On another note, due to various reasons, it seems like the males of the Targ line are the focus; due in part and to some extent on the fact that it was decided only males could rule.  However, there are more than enough females throughout the Targ reign that I sincerely hope get their own backgrounds.

[Arataniello]

Fenryng, on Jul 4 2007, 07.49, said:

On another note, due to various reasons, it seems like the males of the Targ line are the focus; due in part and to some extent on the fact that it was decided only males could rule.  However, there are more than enough females throughout the Targ reign that I sincerely hope get their own backgrounds.

You know about the information posted in 'So Spake Martin' relating to Rhaenyra and the three Princesses in the Maidenvault, right?

Aratan