White Walker Texas Ranger Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I don't have anything insightful to say about this topic, but I thought there should be a thread about it. ETA: I guess I could add some substantive discussion points: Could this turn into another Tiananmen? What happens if it does? Is Xi Jinping actually more authoritarian than his predecessor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Thursday Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 It feels like something like this was always going to happen at some point - there's just too much of a disconnect between the way the people of Hong Kong expect to be governed and the way China operates. However, the difference from Tiananmen is that unlike on the mainland, the people of Hong Kong are already used to having some say in the governing process. This would be taking away democratic rights rather than just refusing to grant them, and I suspect that will be a harder thing to get away with cleanly. ST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 It's interesting to note that the police have been very restrained so far, especially after being criticised for using tear-gas! on the protesters. A major difference between this, and Tianamen, is that there doesn't appear to be much popular support for the students this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 What? This is not just a student movement. Far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kronosrx8 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Was at the protests yesterday and the reason why the police are being criticized is because the protesters were completely peaceful. Obviously they are saying that many people were charging their lines but so far the videos have not shown this happening. The first tear gas canister definitely got everyone riled up and even then it was still non-violent. If anything the tear gas had the opposite effect of dispersing the crowd since A LOT more people showed up after being pissed at seeing the police conduct from live news footage and it has snowballed from there. I know tear gas is probably very common at protests elsewhere but we have never seen it used since 2005 so it is quite a big deal. Now that the government has completely pulled back the riot police I just don't think they will try any more forceful tactics. In China the tanks would already have come out and the Chief Executive has emphasized that the PLA won't be called so there definitely won't be another Tiananmen Square. On the other hand there is pretty much zero chance that Xi will change his stance on the issue so I can't see how this will end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Was at the protests yesterday and the reason why the police are being criticized is because the protesters were completely peaceful. Obviously they are saying that many people were charging their lines but so far the videos have not shown this happening. The first tear gas canister definitely got everyone riled up and even then it was still non-violent. If anything the tear gas had the opposite effect of dispersing the crowd since A LOT more people showed up after being pissed at seeing the police conduct from live news footage and it has snowballed from there. I know tear gas is probably very common at protests elsewhere but we have never seen it used since 2005 so it is quite a big deal. Now that the government has completely pulled back the riot police I just don't think they will try any more forceful tactics. In China the tanks would already have come out and the Chief Executive has emphasized that the PLA won't be called so there definitely won't be another Tiananmen Square. On the other hand there is pretty much zero chance that Xi will change his stance on the issue so I can't see how this will end. I wonder if they'll try and wait the protesters out? Do you think that is a viable option for the Chinese government?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 The problem for the Chinese here is that HK acts as both a source of foreign investment in China and, as a sort of parallel to that, is alot more open to outside observation. They can't pull a Tianenmen Square and cover it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghjhero Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Vice just released a video showing the scale of the protests: http://youtu.be/vs5o8YPxpL4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solmyr Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Could someone contextualize the protests for me? I am blissfully ignorant of what's going on in China on a social and political level. Are the protests in a response to a specific event; or are they more of an outcry that has been building for a while and has just reached the tipping point? Are there any reports of any unrest in mainland China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Could someone contextualize the protests for me? I am blissfully ignorant of what's going on in China on a social and political level. Are the protests in a response to a specific event; or are they more of an outcry that has been building for a while and has just reached the tipping point? Are there any reports of any unrest in mainland China? It's specific to Hong Kong. The precipitating even is, I believe, the upcoming mayoral elections in 2017 or something. The HKers want to be able to choose their own candidates rather then just select among the Beijing approved stooges. More generally, it's a boiling over of Hong Kong's dissatisfaction with China trying to tighten their grip on them. As I've read anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 A pretty good primer:http://www.vox.com/2014/9/28/6856621/hong-kong-protests-clashes-china-explainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solmyr Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thanks for the clarification. I already read a few articles, but the one provided was also quite comprehensive. Seems like quite legitimate reasons for worry and civil unrest. My concern is that unlike with protests in many other countries, the west might do little to support Hong Kong's citizens, lest it drives away China, who is a strong economic partner to many western nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Be concerned, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horza Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Actually, you can relax: according to the Chinese press the black hand of the CIA is at work, and Russian state television agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solmyr Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Actually, you can relax: according to the Chinese press the black hand of the CIA is at work, and Russian state television agrees. Relax? RELAX?! That's even worse! Everyone knows the CIA is the deadliest of the three apparatus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Relax? RELAX?! That's even worse! Everyone knows the CIA is the deadliest of the three apparatus. I think the point it that this is blatant propaganda. It's pretty standard to try to undermine a popular protest movement by saying the CIA started it. But you wouldn't fall for that sort of thing, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 The problem for the Chinese here is that HK acts as both a source of foreign investment in China and, as a sort of parallel to that, is alot more open to outside observation. They can't pull a Tianenmen Square and cover it up. The investment stuff is not as important as it once was. In 1998, Hong Kong produced 18% of China's GDP, that's now down to 3% thanks to how much the rest of the country (or at least the cities and coastal regions) have modernized. I agree about the outside observers point, but we'll see just how much China cares about its public image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 The investment stuff is not as important as it once was. In 1998, Hong Kong produced 18% of China's GDP, that's now down to 3% thanks to how much the rest of the country (or at least the cities and coastal regions) have modernized. I agree about the outside observers point, but we'll see just how much China cares about its public image. It may not be as disproportionately large a part of the Chinese economy anymore, but it's capital markets are still vital. International investors trust the Hong Kong markets since they perceive rule of law being much stronger in Hong Kong than say, Shanghai. Too much CCP interference in Hong Kong could make it more difficult for Chinese companies to raise money. And also for corrupt communist part officials (all of them?) to launder money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Solmyr,Relax? RELAX?! That's even worse! Everyone knows the CIA is the deadliest of the three apparatus.The CIA must be distributing cookies to the protestors. No one can resist CIA cookies. Has Victoria Nuland been seen in Hong Kong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddington Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Solmyr,The CIA must be distributing cookies to the protestors. No one can resist CIA cookies. Makes a change from exploding cigars, and botchulism milkshakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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