Hate for Tyrion & Danaerys?

[Eat My Steel]

I have been reading many posts declaring hatred for Tryion and the wish that he would be killed. I personally don't understand this hatred at all and would like some clarification as to why from the haters. Many also seem to have a similar disdain for Dany. While I also do not understand this completely, she is much less likable than Tyrion who is perhaps the most entertaining character in the books, so it makes a little more sense.

Why all the hate for two of the characters who look to have the biggest influence on the entire series of books? Why are we reading if not to find out what happens to Dany, Tyrion, and Jon (the three heads!?!)? Why all the hate?

[Hodor's Dragon]

I have been reading many posts declaring hatred for Tryion and the wish that he would be killed. I personally don't understand this hatred at all and would like some clarification as to why from the haters. Many also seem to have a similar disdain for Dany. While I also do not understand this completely, she is much less likable than Tyrion who is perhaps the most entertaining character in the books, so it makes a little more sense.

Why all the hate for two of the characters who look to have the biggest influence on the entire series of books? Why are we reading if not to find out what happens to Dany, Tyrion, and Jon (the three heads!?!)? Why all the hate?

Good questions. Or to put it another way, why fight the author?

[Mladen]

Tyrion hate started with his self-pity ADWD party, with raping women, being extremely offensive to others etc... That still doesn't mean, just like in Dany's case, that Tyrion isn't perceived as one of the most important character in the series. But that doesn't mean that he is, as of ADWD, been rather horrible human being.

Dany hatred, well, most of it, also came from ADWD and her inability to rule Meereen, with also some morally questionable decisions (torturing innocents). Dany also went step back with her entitlement talk aka "blood of dragons", her refusal to see some difficult truths and basically staying indefinitely at place no one really cares about.

So, hating character =/= thinking they are irrelevant.

[Cthulhu the Drowned God]

Why are we reading if not to find out what happens to Dany, Tyrion, and Jon (the three heads!?!)?

To find out what happens to the other 17 POV characters? Personally, while Tyrion has always been one of my favourites, I find both Jon and Dany to be among the less interesting protagonists in the series, and thought that most of the weakest chapters in ADWD belonged to them.

I don't get over-the-top hate though, I'll agree with you on that.

[Gibzit]

well most people don't like dany because she is sitting on her ass with three dragons, the best army in the world and could have had the support of dorne, which she lost because she is pretty dumb and marries hidzahr which is so obviously a son of the harpy it hurts

[Batbob45]

Tyrion is sometimes hated for being selective on the cripples. bastards and broken things he has a soft spot for

Dany for noting wanting to hear the truth about her dad

[Eat My Steel]

Tyrion hate started with his self-pity ADWD party, with raping women, being extremely offensive to others etc... That still doesn't mean, just like in Dany's case, that Tyrion isn't perceived as one of the most important character in the series. But that doesn't mean that he is, as of ADWD, been rather horrible human being.

Dany hatred, well, most of it, also came from ADWD and her inability to rule Meereen, with also some morally questionable decisions (torturing innocents). Dany also went step back with her entitlement talk aka "blood of dragons", her refusal to see some difficult truths and basically staying indefinitely at place no one really cares about.

So, hating character =/= thinking they are irrelevant.

When did Tyrion rape somebody? I missed that part. Who were the innocents Dany tortured? No doubt this could be a matter of perspective...? Not trying to be an ass, I really don't recall this...

[Eat My Steel]

well most people don't like dany because she is sitting on her ass with three dragons, the best army in the world and could have had the support of dorne, which she lost because she is pretty dumb and marries hidzahr which is so obviously a son of the harpy it hurts

Hizdar being so obvious is just that - too obvious. Look to the shavepate and/or Green Grace as the Harpy, Hizdar is actually pretty honest...

[Dolorous22]

I have nothing but sympathy for Tyrion. His time in exile has given him an opportunity to reflect and there's a lot to digest. Comming to terms with not only the way he's been treated but his subsequent treatment of others is a refreshing change of pace, for me.

I just find Dany annoying and I imagine that's almost the desired effect. She tinkers with cultures and customs from a moral high ground that I'm not certain she's entitled to. Of course, I commend her 'motherly' attitude towards her people. To arbitrarily start condemning people for doing things that have been done for hundreds maybe thousands of years is too naive and short sighted. She's almost had the same effect on Essos that the Freys, Lannisters, Boltons, Iron Born, Wildlings and Baratheons have had on Westeros. Massive destabilisation that ultimately kills more than it saves, all to please her own view on how things should be.

I don't hate either though. I stopped hating characters by the end of aCoK. But hate is one of those words banded about with no real respect for it's meaning. Which is crazy when you consider that we're all enjoying a 'book'.

[SeanF]

When did Tyrion rape somebody? I missed that part. Who were the innocents Dany tortured? No doubt this could be a matter of perspective...? Not trying to be an ass, I really don't recall this...

Tyrion raped a bed-slave in Selhorys. Dany ordered two girls to be tortured in front of their father.

There's obviously more to both characters than that, though.

[Arya Stark Rules]

"Tyrion and Dany hate" is overrated IMO, it's just a particular group of active and vocal posters with a high reputation that make it seem that way, those two have some of the largest support in the fandom regardless of their failures.

The only character that I see has hate to a shockingly high level is Catelyn.

[Chebyshov]

I don't think you can paint character hate with a broad brush. The people I see who hate Dany tend not to hate Tyrion, and vica versa (obviously with exceptions).

I agree with Mladen's post; you can hate a character and still view them as important to the plot. You can hate a character and still find their chapters enjoyable/entertaining.

Plain and simple, Tyrion's not a good guy. So most of his hate is born of that. Dany hate, on the other hand, often has to do with her isolation from the rest of the plot, her bungled attempts at ruling, and her entitlement. Ironically, Jon made similar missteps in his attempt at leadership, yet he doesn't seem to draw the same criticism. There's also the feeling that Dany+dragons feels cheap; she has too much inherently on her side so any missteps she makes ultimately won't matter. But I do sometimes wonder about character acceptance if Jon and Dany's genders were swapped.

[Mladen]

When did Tyrion rape somebody? I missed that part. Who were the innocents Dany tortured? No doubt this could be a matter of perspective...? Not trying to be an ass, I really don't recall this...

Tyrion raped a bed-slave in Selhorys. Dany ordered two girls to be tortured in front of their father.

There's obviously more to both characters than that, though.

SeanF answered on when the situations which I mentioned happened.

Bolded part: True, but if we are going to speak about transgressions these two committed, they represent possible reasons why their fandom isn't that large as once was, or why these characters aren't loved as in first installments.

"Tyrion and Dany hate" is overrated IMO, it's just a particular group of active and vocal posters with a high reputation that make it seem that way, those two have some of the largest support in the fandom regardless of their failures.

I would say that we can blame show for this. Some things in the show, especially with Tyrion, are done in such fashion, that whitewashing becomes understatement of the year. I wouldn't put anything on "active and vocal posters" but on ambiguity of Dany's arc in ADWD. I feel that GRRM intended us to question these two

[RainGhost]

There seem to be a few threads lately asking why a certain character is hated. The basic answer is that GRRM created characters that are so close to human that none of them are universally liked or disliked. That being said, I do think Dany receives an awful lot more hate than she deserves. Tyrion I think receives an average amount of hate. Dany is basically polarising - you either love her or you hate her (apart from me who merely likes her).

To me, Dany is basically a good person, even if she does do some questionable things. Tyrion also I think is mainly good but he is greyer imo than Dany. Personally I can't understand people hating 'good' characters, even if I can understand people not liking them. I like Dany because she has good intentions, even if she goes the wrong way about things. I don't hate her for making a mess of things because she's young and didn't know any better. Tyrion does some questionable things but I can see what drives him to it. Yes, he can be annoying at times but that's true of all the characters, I don't hate him for it.

The only characters I can understand people actually hating are the monsters like Walder Frey, Ramsay Snow, the Mountain etc. Having said that, if people hate Dany or Tyrion because they morally object to some of their actions I can understand that even if I don't see it that way myself. I just don't understand the attitude of I hate Dany/Tyrion because they have plot armour or because they're annoying or whatever.

[opinionn]

What character doesn't get hated?

[SeanF]

"Tyrion and Dany hate" is overrated IMO, it's just a particular group of active and vocal posters with a high reputation that make it seem that way, those two have some of the largest support in the fandom regardless of their failures.

The only character that I see has hate to a shockingly high level is Catelyn.

Voted the 8th most hated character, at the Tower of the Hand.

[LordStoneheart]

I try to hate Tyrion, I really do, but I can't. :D He's terrible in aDwD and honestly most of Storm. He may be entertaining but he's also just an awful person. I'm too familiar with him to hate him but if I could I would.

Dany hate is something different. Dany isn't an outright monster like Tyrion is. Her bad points are a bit harder to see because, IMO, at her very core she truly is a compassionate, sweet girl, but as she progressed her darker potential came to the forefront. So to me, at this point in the novels it's much easier to hate Tyrion.

[K-26dp]

Because with so much time between books, people invent their own drama.

[Hodor's Dragon]

Because with so much time between books, people invent their own drama.

This is probably the best answer in the thread.

[SeanF]

I try to hate Tyrion, I really do, but I can't. :D He's terrible in aDwD and honestly most of Storm. He may be entertaining but he's also just an awful person. I'm too familiar with him to hate him but if I could I would.

Dany hate is something different. Dany isn't an outright monster like Tyrion is. Her bad points are a bit harder to see because, IMO, at her very core she truly is a compassionate, sweet girl, but as she progressed her darker potential came to the forefront. So to me, at this point in the novels it's much easier to hate Tyrion.

There's a "casual nastiness" to Tyrion (Lummel's words) that Dany doesn't share. You see it as far back as AGOT when he laughs inwardly at finding his father has hanged Masha Heddle, who bore no responsibility for his arrest, or when he's clearly indifferent to the death of his servant on the mountain road.

Dany's chief fault is an angry self-righteous cruelty.