How did Varys manage to stay in the small council for so long?

[fellow reader]

Varys was brought into the small council as Master of Wisperers by Aerys.

We heard from Stannis: "Ser Barristan once told me the rot in King Aerys's reign began with Varys. The eunuch should never have been pardoned."

This implies that Barristan thinks Varys has some responsibility for the mess which the reign of Aerys turned into.

We heard from Jaime: "Aerys saw traitors everywhere, and Varys was always ready to point out any he missed."

This implies that Varys supported the paranoia of Aerys and that he might be responsible for the condemnation of a number of people as traitors who were probably innocent.

After the rebellion, Varys was pardoned and continued as Master of Whisperers for Robert the enemy of his former king.

I could not find anything to quote here to show what Robert thought about Varys, but he seemed to be indifferent towards him. He did not really like him but he did his job so it was okay. Not that Robert would actually be interested in ruling the realm...His only decision concerning politics seemed to be to kill Daenerys. The rest we saw was just giving the order to organize the tourney and enjoying his entertainments like drinking, whoring and hunting.

After Roberts death, Varys remained in his position and served the Lannister regime.

We heard from Cersei:"You think you’re the only one he whispers secrets to? He gives each of us just enough to convince us that we’d be helpless without him. He played the same game with me, when I first wed Robert. For years, I was convinced I had no truer friend at court, but now ...^"

It seems that with the possible exception of Aerys, nobody really trusts Varys. So why did they all keep him as the Master of Whisperers?

His spy network(his little birds) is so impressive that everyone is surprised if he does not know something. This seems to be an invaluable asset, but it does not really explain how he managed to keep his position during all those changes.

The job of the Master of Whisperers is to gather information and to detect secrets and to report them to the king and his small council and they make their decisions relying on the information he provides. Because of that, it is of vital importance that this guy is absolutely loyal. If he provides false information or even delivers secret information to the enemy, he can cause an enormous amount of damage.

It is far safer to have a less able Master of Whisperers whom you can trust without any doubt than an incredibly capable one who might betray you.

So I do not understand why Varys remained in his position after the rebellion. He had served Aerys till the end and had exposed supposed traitors against him. Why did Robert keep him? He had advisors like Jon Arryn who was no idiot, but somehow they seemed to believe that they can trust Varys. This is just totally careless. They could have appointed one of their trustworthy followers, but they prefered to keep the guy who served the regime, which they had overthrown through a war including the slaughter of a part of the royal family, till the end. Why did they think they could trust him to serve loyally, that he would not secretly work against them?

To make it short: If he is not able, he is useless. But if he is not loyal, he is a danger.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Because Varys had no horse in the race. He is a nobody. He won't ever play his own game, he just will do his job because that is all he has. Or so everybody thought. Class bias.

[Gneisenau]

They probably didn't take him seriously, since he is a nobody, and probably not even considered to be a man.

[fellow reader]

Because Varys had no horse in the race. He is a nobody. He won't ever play his own game, he just will do his job because that is all he has. Or so everybody thought. Class bias.

Cerseis words show that she had the impression that he gives everyone some information, but he is not fully committed to anyone. That is not a good attitude for your Master of Whisperers. You need someone you can really trust without a doubt for this job. You simply cannot risk that he works for someone else beside you.

[the storm king returns]

A man like Varys is very valuable , all of his little spiders he has floating around are useful in many different ways. Also a man who holds many secrets holds power, not absolute power but still a form in itself.

He survives because he is an eunuch and has no lands or titles, so many lords think he is weak and well in there eyes no man at all thus no threat in any shape or form. Playing up the eunuch card is his greatest advantage honestly.

[fellow reader]

They probably didn't take him seriously, since he is a nobody, and probably not even considered to be a man.

Why keep him then?

Why did they not chose someone else?

If he is not able, he is useless. But if he not loyal, he is a danger.

[Lord Damian]

He advised of plots, true and possibly untrue. Make yourself usefull and needed or atleast make it appear such is the very best way to keep your job longterm.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Why keep him then?

Why did they not chose someone else?

If he is not able, he is useless. But if he not loyal, he is a danger.

Because every spymaster will be distrusted. Comes with the job.

[fellow reader]

A man like Varys is very valuable , all of his little spiders he has floating around are useful in many different ways. Also a man who holds many secrets holds power, not absolute power but still a form in itself.

He survives because he is an eunuch and has no lands or titles, so many lords think he is weak and well in there eyes no man at all thus no threat in any shape or form. Playing up the eunuch card is his greatest advantage honestly.

The Master of Whisperers does not need an army to be dangerous. Provinding false information or delivering secrets to an enemy can cause a lot of damage. You have to be sure about his loyality, but nobody(except perhaps Aerys) seemed to be sure about Varys and some like Cersei noticed that he gives information to more tham one side.

For the position of the Master of Whisperers you need a trustworthy person: If he is not able, he is useless. But if he is not loyal, he is a danger.

[jobmartell]

Because we needed those whispers.

[No Song so Sweet]

Varys never gave them false information. He didn't appear to be untrustworthy as far as the king is concerned. People didn't like him, but they didn't mistrust his information or think he was scheming against them and I think that is the vital point.

Also he did get replaced by Cersei eventually, who is the one who seemed to distrust him the most.

[fellow reader]

Varys never gave them false information. He didn't appear to be untrustworthy as far as the king is concerned. People didn't like him, but they didn't mistrust his information or think he was scheming against them and I think that is the vital point.

Also he did get replaced by Cersei eventually, who is the one who seemed to distrust him the most.

Cersei said: "You think you’re the only one he whispers secrets to? He gives each of us just enough to convince us that we’d be helpless without him. He played the same game with me, when I first wed Robert. For years, I was convinced I had no truer friend at court, but now ...^"

If he gives information to someone else beside you, he is untrustworthy as your Master of Whisperers. He should only report to you and he should not hold anything back and he should not report anything to the other side. That would be betrayal.

Cersei replaced him because he had disappeared, not because she wanted someone more trustworthy.

[The Dragons Hand]

This might be a show quote but it's something like.

"He gives us just enough information to think that we would be helpless without him."

Something that will make you endure his damn giggling.

[fellow reader]

This might be a show quote but it's something like.

"He gives us just enough information to think that we would be helpless without him."

Something that will make you endure his damn giggling.

Read my reply above your own. You cannot trust him if he reports to others as well.

[No Song so Sweet]

Cersei said: "You think you’re the only one he whispers secrets to? He gives each of us just enough to convince us that we’d be helpless without him. He played the same game with me, when I first wed Robert. For years, I was convinced I had no truer friend at court, but now ...^"

If he gives information to someone else beside you, he is untrustworthy as your Master of Whisperers. He should only report to you and he should not hold anything back and he should not report anything to the other side. That would be betrayal.

Cersei replaced him because he had disappeared, not because she wanted someone more trustworthy.

Well if they knew about Varys doing that, then they seemed to tolerate it, for lack of a better master of whispers.

Otherwise maybe they didn't know it at first and this is just a realization to which Cersei came much later (for years, I was convinced I had no truer friend at court...).

Maybe you are asking too much of a master of whispers, and the kings of Westeros were content with less.

The general idea that I have is that whenever the council was in doubt about Varys, he chose to give them some piece of useful crucial information and they saw him again as indispensible.

[fellow reader]

Otherwise maybe they didn't know it at first and this is just a realization to which Cersei came much later (for years, I was convinced I had no truer friend at court...).

Cersei said this to Tyrion in aCoK. So she knew already that he withholds information and reports to more people than he should.

"He played the same game with me, when I first wed Robert. For years, I was convinced I had no truer friend at court, but now...."--->She referred to her early years at court after she had married Robert.

[TerranV]

The thing that Varys has going for him is that no one truly thinks he is a threat. He is a foreigner who has no lands, no army and is only has his position be cause he is useful. He doesn't even show any real ambition other than maintaining his seat. So naturally everyone thinks they can keep him as long as he is useful and easily throw him out when he ceases to be.

Except he never ceases to be useful. So he keeps his seat and the others continue to think they are the ones using him.

[TerranV]

Double post sorry.

[MyLittleFinger]

As others said, he has nobody to back him up (presumably). He can't call in the air strike if people want him dead and he provides a fantastic service that seemed irreplaceable until Qyburn (it might still be irreplaceable). He and LF work in a vacuum of the arrogance of privilege. Both have so much power but seem on the surface to have none. Besides, Barry's thoughts on Varys mean little to Robert, and Stannis hates half the realm in his eyes.

[Lopsang]

He proved to the court that he was very useful. Like when Tyrion tries to give a secret to Littlefinger, Varys, and Pycelle; Varys nor Littlefinger gives the secret away. But of course, Pycelle gave the secret away; he read Tyrion's letters. Varys remained truthful, so far as Tyrion was concerned (to a point, at least). He helped him with the Shae ordeal. Varys has done the same thing for others, like Cersei. They all think they know not to really trust Varys; we can see as much from Cersei's and Tyrion's POVs. However, they don't know the extent to which he dupes them.