Trial by Folly: The Arianne Martell Reread Project [TWOW Arianne I spoilers]

[Dornish Vinegar]

Arianne is not above using people, her rather cynical manipulation of Cedra is proof of that, even if we hadn’t had a whole chapter of her messing with Ser Arys’s head, but this is another quality she shares with Doran, he was scheming for seventeen years to use his daughter to get revenge on his sister’s killers after all. And what I find very interesting is the way they both manipulate people. They never use threats, or force, or even the “I’m the Prince, goddam it!” line, they manipulate people by asking for help, my appealing to people’s compassion, love, or sense of honour. They both even got Arys Oakheart to do what they wanted him to by trembling. They would rather make themselves look weak than belittle or strongarm others.

Amazing! Well analyzed throughout Julia, but this particular bit stood out to me. I love the "Arianne is much more similar to her father than she or he or the audience at large actually realizes" line we've been uncovering here. Just the coolest stuff.

I'll be back to read more later on friends~~~

[SeanF]

The Sand Snakes have never suggested harming her, actually.

As to Tyrion, when he was contemplating it he had already killed Tywin and was kind of just YOLOing. He thought it might have been amusing. But my point was that the exact same plot, which I don't view as inherently doomed as Doran does, was proposed by both Arianne and Tyrion, and yet only one of them has a reputation for being an idiot on the forums, despite the fact she actually had a good motivation. It's more of an aside than anything to analyze...I think our discussion has already illuminated both the sound logic and careful planning on Arianne's part that the QM plot involved.

Without wishing to derail this thread too much, Tyrion surely attracts far greater criticism for his behaviour than Arianne does? Tyrion just wanted to use Myrcella to hit back at his family.

[Julia Martell]

DV! We missed you!

Without wishing to derail this thread too much, Tyrion surely attracts far greater criticism for his behaviour than Arianne does? Tyrion just wanted to use Myrcella to hit back at his family.

I'm not a religious follower of Tyrion discussions on this forum, but I don't remember it ever being brought up. I think maybe with all the shit he got up to in aDwD, this little bit from his first chapter just got swept under the rug.

[Chebyshov]

I'll be back to read more later on friends~~~

AH! What a tease :P

Without wishing to derail this thread too much, Tyrion surely attracts far greater criticism for his behaviour than Arianne does? Tyrion just wanted to use Myrcella to hit back at his family.

What Julia Martell said. I was just bringing it up in general because of "player" reputation. Arianne gets hailed as an idiot, Tyrion is thought of as quite astute. Yet they both saw an appeal in a similar plan (though for different reasons). Really, it was me whining about Arianne's standing with the fan-base.

[SeanF]

AH! What a tease :P

What Julia Martell said. I was just bringing it up in general because of "player" reputation. Arianne gets hailed as an idiot, Tyrion is thought of as quite astute. Yet they both saw an appeal in a similar plan (though for different reasons). Really, it was me whining about Arianne's standing with the fan-base.

If Arianne receives greater criticism than Tyrion, I think it would be for the reason that she owes it to her family and people not to lead them into a war that may end disastrously for them.

Tyrion owes no such obligation to the Dornish.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

If Arianne receives greater criticism than Tyrion, I think it would be for the reason that she owes it to her family and people not to lead them into a war that may end disastrously for them.

Tyrion owes no such obligation to the Dornish.

The most probable answer is that Tyrion has dozens of POVs and has been a main character since AGOT.

[Chebyshov]

Well, I also think there's the issue that Doran is too hard on her (and too pessimistic/cautious about the war in general) and Arianne is incredibly self-deprecating about the plot herself. So unlike Tryion, there's actually self-awareness and reflection (not that Tyrion needed to for a kind of flippant, random suggestion). But I feel like people take Doran's words and Arianne's negative thoughts at face value, and agree "it would have been disastrous," when it may not have been. Plus, as we are wont to point out here, Arianne's other choice was to not act, and then be supplanted and relegated to a miserable life.

If Julia Martell would be so kind as to let me borrow from her sig:

"Every battle is a gamble, Snow. The man who does nothing also takes a risk."

But yeah, I'll hold off on saying more about Doran's treatment of her until our next section is posted ;)

[HexMachina]

I don't know if you are all aware of this, but the Arriane sample chapter is now available to read on the App, along with Tyrion I, Barristan I, Mercy and Theon I.

Oh, and also the World Samples (The Vale, The Rohynar and Aegon's Conquest). But I thought the Arianne sample would be of interest, since I seem to recall that you would include it in the reread

[Chebyshov]

I don't know if you are all aware of this, but the Arriane sample chapter is now available to read on the App, along with Tyrion I, Barristan I, Mercy and Theon I.

Oh, and also the World Samples (The Vale, The Rohynar and Aegon's Conquest). But I thought the Arianne sample would be of interest, since I seem to recall that you would include it in the reread

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luuksyLIwz1qi6d7ao3_r3_250.gif

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I don't know if you are all aware of this, but the Arriane sample chapter is now available to read on the App, along with Tyrion I, Barristan I, Mercy and Theon I.

Oh, and also the World Samples (The Vale, The Rohynar and Aegon's Conquest). But I thought the Arianne sample would be of interest, since I seem to recall that you would include it in the reread

This is a bad week to not be able to download the app :(

Only 8 more days until the world book......

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'll make more comments about Arianne later, but this I missed the thread for the days I didn't have Internet.

Homosexuality is not despised in Dorne. So, why do people whisper about the Ser Daemon and Prince Oberyn?

My guess would be that no one would despise Daemon for having been Oberyn's lover. But, Dorne is a warrior culture. They would despise Daemon if they thought Oberyn had awarded him a knighthood for having been his lover, rather than for his prowess as a warrior.

We should see Dorne, in that respect, as similar to Sparta.

I think one of the reasons could have something to do with his age. Remember that Jaime said Oberyn "beds with boys" (Tyrion mentions he beds men, though). But, Daemon has been Oberyn's squire, and who knows when they had sex (if they had it at all) for the first time.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The Princess in the Tower, Part 2

Summary

After weeks of having been imprisoned in Spear Tower, Arianne is woken by Areo Hotah, Prince Doran’s head of guard. Hotah informs her that Prince Doran is ready to see her, and thus Arianne prepares herself, taking a bath, getting dressed, eating. Over the past few weeks, Arianne’s defences have grown thin, and Arianne realises that, for the first time in her life, she is afraid of her father. She prepares to beg his forgiveness, to be humble and contrite.

When Arianne is ready, Hotah brings her to Prince Doran’s solar, where Doran is sitting behind a cyvasse table. He’s sitting with an onyx elephant piece in his hands, and Arianne notes he looks terrible. His joints look inflamed, and his face pale and flushed. Despite feeling bad about this, Arianne cannot stick to her plan and kneel in front of him to beg forgiveness.

”Father,” she said instead.

When Doran looks up at Arianne, his eyes are clouded with pain, leaving Arianne to wonder whether Doran is in pain because of his gout, or because of her. Doran, in a response, starts speaking about Volantis, and how he first met his wife, Arianne’s mother, Mellario. When asked, Areo confirms that he can still recall that day.

“I remember,” echoed Areo Hotah in his deep voice. “The bears danced and the bells rang, and the prince wore red and gold and orange. My lady asked me who it was who shone so bright.”

Doran only smiles, and asks Areo to leave them alone. One Hotah is gone, Doran speaks once more. He tells Arianne that he had ordered his people to place a cyvasse table in Arianne’s confinements, but Arianne remarks that she had no one to play with, wondering why her father would be speaking about a cyvasse game, at this moment. Doran, however, responds that Arianne could have played with herself, practicing the game, studying the game, before challenging someone.

“How well do you know the game, Arianne?”

“Well enough to play.”

“But not to win.

Doran remarks how he only plays games that he knows he can win, and remarks that cyvasse isn’t one of those. Studying her face, Doran now asks Arianne about her plot.

“Why?”

Despite in earlier chapters stating that her plot was, in part, to make certain that she’d get her birth right, to Doran, she claims that she did it for the honor of House Martell. Doran has shamed Dorne, Arianne tells him, angry because he sounds sad, exhausted and weak, instead of angry. After all, Doran’s own brother had gone to King’s Landing instead of Doran, and he was killed there. When Doran insists that Oberyn is still with Doran, every time he closes his eyes, Arianne makes a biting remark, telling Doran that without a doubt, Oberyn is telling Doran to “open them”.

And after those words, Arianne sits down, despite Doran not giving her leave to do so. When told that, Arianne tries to enrage Doran, telling him to call Hotah back, and have her whipped for her insolence. He is the Prince of Dorne, after all. He had the authority to do so.

She touched one of the cyvasse pieces, the heavy horse. “Have you caught Ser Gerold?”

Arianne now takes the opportunity to finally get an answer to one of her many questions, after not having been told a thing for weeks. Doran tells her that Darkstart remains uncaught, and that Arianne had been a fool to confide in him, and that Darkstar has done a great harm. Arianne, not knowing what happened to Myrcella, fears that the girl has died, but Doran admits that, though Darkstart tried well enough, Myrcella survived. It was her horse who had saved her life, though she lost an ear in the process.

Doran tells her that the girl had been his ward, Trystane’s betrothed, and that Arianne dishonoured them all by doing what she did. Arianne insists that she never meant to have Myrcella harmed. Had Hotah not interfered, though…

“... you would have crowned Myrcella queen, to raise a rebellion against her brother. Instead of an ear, she would have lost her life.”

“Only if we lost.”

Doran tells her it wasn’t a matter of if, it was a matter of when. There was no chance that Arianne could have won such a war. Dorne is the least populous of the Seven Kingdoms, and Dorne has, since the Conquest of Dorne, kept up the illusion that King Daeron I created; stating that the armies of Dorne are bigger than they actually are. Doran emphasizes that Dorne cannot hope to win a war against the Iron Throne, not alone, yet a war against the iron throne might just have been what Arianne has given them.

“Are you proud?” The prince did not allow her time to answer. “What am I to do with you, Arianne?”

Arianne is hurt by those words, and tells Doran to do what he always does. Nothing. While Doran is growing more angry, Arianne demands to know how he had learned about her plans.

“I am the Prince of Dorne. Men seek my favor.”

Realising that someone had told on her, Arianne wonders out loud why Doran had allowed for her to take off with Myrcella, and Doran admits that it had been his mistake.

Arianne wants to know the name of the person who told Doran about her plans, but Doran refuses, telling her she’s welcome to try and figure it out on her own. Until such a time as she does, he tells her, she must mistrust them all. And, he adds, a little mistrust is a good thing in a princess.

When Doran tells Arianne that she has disappointed him, she tells him that he has been disappointing her for years, and Doran tells her that he is aware. He is too meek and weak and cautious, too lenient to his enemies. But currently, he tells her, that is exactly what Arianne needs.

”You ought to be pleading for my forgiveness rather than seeking to provoke me further.”

Arianne only whishes to ask for leniency for her friends who have been arrested, and says they do not deserve to die on Ghaston Grey, to which Doran agrees. He tells her that her fellow plotters were foolish children, and that though he might have had their heads off, Ser Andrey has been sent to Norvos, to serve Mellario, for three years, while Garin will spend the next two years in Tyrosh. Coin and hostages have been taken from his kin amongst the orphans. Sylva was wed to Lord Eldon Estermont, and has already left for Greenstone. And Ser Arys… Doran asks Arianne what she did to Arys, as he had been a knight of the Kingsguard, to which Arianne bluntly responds that she fucked him, and told him that once Myrcella was Queen, they could get married. She tells Doran that he loved her, and recalls how seducing Arys had taken her half a year, and that Arys had been doubtfull every step of the way. Recalling this makes Arianne wonder why he charged into Hotah’s axe. Was it to protect her, or to wash out his dishonour?

Doran informs Arianne that Ser Balon Swann of the Kingsguard is on his way to Sunspear as they speak, though Dorans bannermen have been delaying the knight and his retinue on Doran’s orders. Sooner or later, Balon will reach Sunspear, he tells Arianne, where he will expect to find Myrcella, whole, and Ser Arys, alive.

Arianne has a plan ready: tell Balon that Darkstar tried to kill Myrcella, and that Ser Arys stepped between them, and died in the process of saving her. She claims Ser Balon won’t have any proof..

..Until he speaks with Myrcella, Doran says. He won’t have Myrcella suffer an “accident” as well, and Arianne realises that Doran needs her to get Dorne out of this. When Arianne asks Doran why she should help him, he angrily tells her that he’s running out of patience. Arianne tells Doran that he has been patient with the Lannisters, but never with his own family.

“You mistake patience for forbearance. I have worked at the downfall of Tywin Lannister since the day they told me of Elia and her children. It was my hope to strip him of all that he held most dear before I killed him, but it would seem his dwarf son has robbed me of that pleasure. I take some small solace in knowing that he died a cruel death at the hands of the monster that he himself begot. Be that as it may. Lord Tywin is howling down in hell... where thousands more will soon be joining him, if your folly turns to war.” Her father grimaced, as if the very word were painful to him. “Is that what you want?”

Arianne responds to his question. She wants her cousins freed, and Oberyn avenged. She wants her rights. She wants Dorne.

Doran tells her that Dorne will be hers after he is dead, and asks her whether she is so anxious to get rid of him, and Arianne asks the same of him. She demands to know where Quentyn is, and tells Doran she knows he is lying when he tells her Quentyn is in the Boneway with the host of Yronwood. She knows that he went to Lys, and that it was a friend that told her.

Doran, however, tells Arianne that her friend lied to her, and that Quentyn did not travel to Lys, but Arianne insists that Quentyn certainly went across the Narrow Sea, “hiring sellswords to steal away my birthright”.

This angers Doran even further. If any of his children should be plotting against him, it should be Quentyn, he says, yet Quentyn remains faithful and obenient. Of course, says Arianne, because Doran has always favoured him, not her. That’s when she tells him that she had read a letter he had once written Quentyn.

“‘One day you will sit where I sit and rule all Dorne,’ you wrote him. Tell me, Father, when did you decide to disinherit me? Was it the day that Quentyn was born, or the day that I was born? What did I ever do to make you hate me so?”

Dorans anger turns to sadness. He admits to having written those words, when Quentyn had first gone to Yronwood. But she doesn’t understand, he had other plans for her. Arianne recalls the greybeards that must have been Doran’s plans, and tells Doran that, if he had ever loved her, he would never have offered her a husband like Walder Frey.

“I dared not bring you any man you might accept. You were promised, Arianne.”

Arianne has difficulty believing this, and when Doran tells her that he had been planning on telling her when she had been a woman grown, she reminds him that she has been an adult legally for seven years. Doran wanted to protect her, he says, as he had worried that Arianne would have told a friend, who would have told another friend, and so forth. He could not take the risk. When asked who her betrothed was, Doran only answers that it no longer matters, as he is dead, killed by molten gold. Dorne will be Arianne’s, he promises, Quentyn’s rode will be harder.

Arianne remains suspicious. Either tell it all, she says, or let me die besides my cousins. This hurts Doran, and he insists that Obara, Nym and Tyene lack for nothing but freedom, and that Ellaria and the younger ones are safely at the Water Gardens. He recalls when Arianne herself had been playing in the pools, on the shoulders of some of the other girls. The Fowler twins, Arianne recalls. Frynne. And Garin, with whom she could even defeat Nym and the green-haired girl from Tyrosh.

Doran confides that the girl from Tyrosh had been the daughter of the Archon, and that Arianne would have gone to Tyrosh in her stead, to secretly meet with her betrothed, but that Mellario had threatened to hurt herself, and that Doran had kept her in Dorne because of that.

“Is that where Quentyn’s gone? To Tyrosh, to court the Archon’s green-haired daughter?”

Arianne doesn’t get an answer to her question, though. Holding another cyvasse piece, Doran tells her that he has to know how she had learned about Quentyns trip. He went with five others on a perilous journey, with an uncertain welcome at his end. He starts to speak softly, as if he’s afraid that someone’s listening.

“He has gone to bring us back our heart’s desire.” […] “Vengeance.” […] “Justice.” […] “Fire and blood.”

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The Princess in the tower, Part 2

Analysis

This second half of The Princess and the Queen offers a couple of interesting insights we’ve never gotten before into our Dornish friends. The chapter is filled with symbolism, and possible foreshadowing, which I’ll discuss (in detail) first. Because Doran’s characteristics, and his actions, have formed Arianne’s character, I’ll be discussing that as well, a little. And much, much more :)

A Game of Cyvasse, A Game of Thrones

“A strange and subtle folk, the Volantenes.”

Cyvasse is without a doubt one of the most important aspects of this chapter. It heavily symbolizes the game of thrones, and the ability of characters to play it.

In one corner stood an ornate cyvasse table with pieces carved of ivory and onyx, though she had no one to play with even if she had been so inclined.

Upon arriving in her “prison”, Arianne notes a cyvasse table present, but she does not sit down to play, at any occasion during the weeks spend there. In fact, upon seeing the table, Arianne almost immediately notes that, even if she had wanted to play, she had no one to play with. The wording suggests that she wouldn’t have played even if there had been someone to play against.

She later does sit down for a second at the cyvasse table, and moves the elephant piece around.

She paced around her tower, twice and thrice and three times thrice. She sat beside the cyvasse table and idly moved an elephant. She curled up in the window seat and tried to read a book, until the words became a blur and she realized that she was crying again.

When Arianne finally is brought before Doran, she finds Doran sitting behind a cyvasse table.

By the time she was ready, dusk had fallen. Arianne had thought that Hotah would escort her to the Tower of the Sun to hear her father’s judgment. Instead he delivered her to the prince’s solar, where they found Doran Martell seated behind a cyvasse table, his gouty legs supported by a cushioned footstool. He was toying with an onyx elephant, turning it in his reddened, swollen hands. The prince looked worse than she had ever seen him.

It is interesting to see that Doran is playing here with the elephant piece, just as Arianne had been doing earlier in the same chapter. It’s a nice little parallel between father and daughter. Though it isn’t noted which colour the elephant cyvasse piece had that Arianne moved around earlier, Doran’s piece is mentioned to be onyx. He later touches another onyx piece, so it would seem that he’s just sitting on that side of the board (more on the meaning of the specific pieces below). I don’t recall that it is ever stated that one player uses only one colour, but well, 1) it makes sense that one player only uses one colour, as it will make certain that the players can keep track of which pieces are theirs, and 2) chess was one of the three games that were the inspiration for cyvasse, and in chess, one player uses all white pieces, and the other all black pieces (in the usual, standard forms of chess, not talking about the chess sets where you have purple pieces against green, etc). So it would make sense if in cyvasse, one player uses only white pieces (ivory), and the other only black (onyx).

The conversation Arianne and Doran have itself contains a bit of cyvasse as well:

“I told them to place a cyvasse table in your chambers,” her father said when the two of them were alone.

“Who was I supposed to play with?” Why is he talking about a game? Has the gout robbed him of his wits?

“Yourself. Sometimes it is best to study a game before you attempt to play it.”

Doran had a cyvasse table placed in Arianne’s chambers on purpose. That won’t have been without a reason. Arianne here repeats that she had no one to play with, so why would she play? Dorans answer indicates that she could have practised the game, before attempting to play against someone. Sometimes, Doran tells, that is best. Naturally, the more you practise, the less likely your battle plan on the cyvasse battle bord is to fail.

Doran continues:

How well do you know the game, Arianne?”

“Well enough to play.”

“But not to win.”

This part says a lot, I think. Doran tells Arianne that, while she is good enough to play cyvasse, she’s not yet good enough to win. That he specifically had a cyvasse table placed in her rooms, seems to be symbolizing that Doran wants Arianne to practise, before she goes to play. Perhaps even going as far as the thought “if she won’t practise such a game as cyvasse, why would she practise the game of thrones?”.

With the game of cyvasse symbolizing the game of thrones, it seems that Doran wants Arianne to study this game of politics, before she goes to “play” along. As we know, “When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.”

So having had enough practise before you play with the big guys seems rather essential

By placing a table of cyvasse in her chambers, Doran has given Arianne an opportunity to practise the game, before she would play against others. Her imprisonment, it seems, was a same kind. During her imprisonment, she was given the silent treatment, which resulted in her being alone with her thoughts. While that isn’t necessarily a “practise” round, after you practise, you reflect. What did you do right? What did you do wrong? What can you do different next time, to make your chances of winning bigger? Arianne’s imprisonment gave her reflection time, which is essential after her Queenmaker plot failed. Arianne does indeed reflect, obsessing over who betrayed her, but later, decides not to dwell “endlessly” on Arys, and starts to focus completely on trying to get out of her confinements. After a while of trying, she simply gives up.

One can wonder, whether Arianne’s decision on not to dwell on Arys (and thus her failed plot) is a good decision. On one hand, I can see that she should have thought more about it (not on Arys necessarily, but on the Queenmaker plot itself), yet on the other hand, she is right to state that dwelling endlessly won’t help you either. Don’t remain stuck in your thoughts about your mistakes. Don’t remain stuck in the past, but move forward.

But think enough about your mistakes to learn from them.. Arianne did this partly already, during her imprisonment, and she will be doing this even more later on. But that’s not for me to analyse ;)

In any case, Arianne, despite at a certain point during her imprisonment (after Cedra has disappeared) seemingly giving up on trying to discover who has betrayed her, and thus where her plot went wrong, has not forgetting, as she questions Doran about it later on. More on that further below.

As I stated before on the thread, it seems to me that Doran’s plan for Arianne’s imprisonment was meant to break her spirit a little. Doran would have had no idea why Arianne would carry out such a plot against him, and he knows that she’s a strong, stubborn and proud woman, who wouldn’t simply give him an answer. Especially after this plot, Doran needs to get that fire that has been burning in Arianne for so long, toned down a bit, to make certain that he’ll be getting some answers.

A Moment In Between

We know that the game cyvasse symbolizes the game of thrones, but do the specific pieces mean anything? I asked myself that question when summarizing this chapter. The possible meanings of the elephant pieces is discussed here, the heavy horse and the black dragon, both occurring later in the chapter, will follow below.

The Player’s Pieces: The Elephant

So earlier in the chapter, Arianne “idly” moves an elephant piece around, and Doran is later found “toying” with an onyx elephant piece. Why an elephant? And in Dorans specific case, why onyx? Is there any meaning at all? (It’s written by GRRM, so that just might be the case)..

Possibility 1: The Onyx elephant

Quentyn, once in Volantis, rides a hathay pulled by a dwarf elephant with the colour of dirty snow. That colour can be seen as “sort of” black (yes, I googled pictures), so perhaps this part is hinting towards Dorans (understandable) worries about Quentyn.

(whether it makes a difference that Quentyn’s elephant is a dwarf elephant, whereas the type of elephant used in cyvasse isn’t specified, and thus is most like to be a representing “normal” sized elephant, I don’t know).

Possibility 2: The elephant in general

In addition, another find that might apply to both Arianne and Doran holding an elephant. From A Dance with Dragons:

They played on deck, sitting cross-legged behind the cabin. Young Griff arrayed his army for attack, with dragon, elephants, and heavy horse up front. A young man’s formation, as bold as it is foolish. He risks all for the quick kill. He let the prince have first move. Haldon stood behind them, watching the play.

This is from Tyrion VI in A Dance with Dragons, where Tyrion challenges young Prince Aegon to a game of cyvasse.

I’d like to draw the attention to the fact that Aegon uses multiple pieces to array his army “to attack”, and the elephant pieces are used for this purpose as well. So elephants can be seen (also quite logical, they are quite the formidable beasts) as a sort of weapon, used to attack (a tactic actually used by the Golden Company).

So Arianne touches the elephant “idly”… During a time where she is still shocked about the way her Queenmaker plot ended. Is she rethinking the attack carried out in Dorans name? Or is she thinking about her own “attacking” move of trying to crown Myrcella, or possibly the attacks she has wanted to do against her “enemies”? Idly would perhaps suggest that she’s still numb about all that has happened, so both scenario’s could be going through her mind. She’s trying to form a clear picture in her head.. The reflection time I mentioned earlier.

Doran is toying with the elephant… It might be that he’s considering an attack, either one that he has to repel (meaning that someone else attacks first), or one to carry out on his own (making his move the first move)?

With both scenario’s, he might be thinking about the Myrcella-incident and its obvious consequences. As Doran later admits, Ser Balon is on his way to Sunspear, and has already crossed the Dornish borders. At the moment Arianne seems him toying with the onyx elephant, he might just be thinking about the possibility that he can’t get Myrcella to tell Balon what Doran wants her to tell Balon.

Hereby, he might just be considering whether or not the time is right to let Dorne enter the war for the Iron Throne. War is coming to Dorne, as symbolized earlier, quite possibly, by the blood oranges at the Water Gardens, and Dorans reactions to them (as I explained here as a possible view). Is Doran wondering whether to attack now, or wait a little while longer? It seems rather logical that he’s already visualizing the war to come.. Which ties into Myrcella-gate, as Ser Balon Swann is already on his way to Sunspear, and should he learn what truly happened with Myrcella, Dorne will be involved in a war, that is without question. Doran could very well be thinking/worrying about that, symbolized by his toying with the elephant, and hinted at by Arianne’s “The prince looked worse than she had ever seen him.”

It is the word “toying” that is catching attention here. Doran might just be “toying” with several idea’s, involving attacks. As he proclaims in this chapter, he dares more than Arianne thinks.

Of course, with Quentyn on his way to Daenerys, Doran could also be thinking about the war that will take place once Quentyn has gotten Daenerys with her dragons to Westeros.

A little more on the game between Aegon and Tyrion, both from Tyrion VI from Dance, and how it ties back to Arianne:

Practise

The lad did not seem appeased. The perfect prince but still half a boy for all that, with little and less experience of the world and all its woes. “Prince Aegon,” said Tyrion, “since we’re both stuck aboard this boat, perhaps you will honor me with a game of cyvasse to while away the hours?”

The prince gave him a wary look. “I am sick of cyvasse.”

“Sick of losing to a dwarf, you mean?”

That pricked the lad’s pride, just as Tyrion had known it would. “Go fetch the board and pieces. This time I mean to smash you.”

Note how Aegon is noted to be lacking experience of the world “and all its woes”. Which is why he needs practise, here again symbolized by the game cyvasse. Also note, that Aegon here is willing to practise, though he is actually given someone to practise with, whereas Arianne was left to play only against herself, which she lists as part of the reason that she didn’t play. In a way, Arianne is also lacking experience of the world, or at least, experience of the political game for the Iron Throne. Arianne has shown that she has some experience, at least. She sounds to be, fortunately, a little bit better prepared than Aegon (though that might turn out to be unfortunate for Aegon ).

The (possible) meaning of the black colour of the elephant Doran uses:

It is quite a while into the game between Aegon and Tyrion that we learn about who is playing with which colour.

Tyrion says that he will let Aegon have the first move. If my memory on chess is correct (it has been quite some time since I last played chess :P ), white always starts. The wording used, “He let the prince have the first move” would at first sight suggest that such a rule as “ivory alwas has the first move” does not exist with cyvasse.

It isn’t until much later into the game, that we learn that Tyrion has the black cyvasse pieces (if my assumption of one player using only one colour is correct).

The dwarf pushed his black dragon across a range of mountains.

Should this game count as any foreshadowing for the side fighting with the black elephant, I’m happy to say that Tyrion wins the game (though Aegon then throws the board, leaving no true winners.. I can imagine that this is how the game for the iron throne will eventually end.. Though we stay hoping for the best possible outcome for Dorne, right? :) ).

It should also be noted that Tyrion, during the game, is trying to convince Aegon to go to Westeros, and abandon the plan of going to Dany (for whatever reason). Tyrion actually succeeds, although he doesn’t learn of this until much later. So both in the game of cyvasse, and the game of thrones that Tyrion was playing there with Aegon, Tyrion can be said to have won. While using the black pieces.

Nice to note that whilst in Volantis, Tyrion sees Qavo Nogarys playing a game of cyvasse against some other man. Nogarys, using the onyx cyvasse pieces, wins the game. When Tyrion plays against him, Tyrion is assigned the white (alabaster) pieces, and loses.

All in all, it seems a favourable thing when a character uses the black pieces. Let’s hope that this eventually shows in the actual fight for the Iron Throne. And that Doran and Arianne keep being associated with the black pieces.

(Spoilertags for Winds) In the first Tyrion chapter of The Winds of Winter, Tyrion plays a game of cyvasse against Brown Ben Plumm:

According to the notes taken from this reading, Tyrion is winning the game. I thought it might be fun to mention, that I thus predict that Tyrion is playing with the black cyvasse pieces, though only if Tyrion is actually, truly winning, and not just believing he’s winning while Brown Ben Plumm is actually winning, and we just haven’t learned about it yet. The fact that Tyrion uses this game to try and convince Ben to switch sides, and the second Tyrion sample chapter shows us that Ben indeed has decided to switch back to Dany’s side in the battle for Meereen, would suggest that Tyrion indeed won “the game”, as occurred earlier with Aegon. Thus, that he played with the black pieces. It’s a prediction I make :)

So, to conclude, Doran is toying with a black elephant piece. Having connected the elephant piece with battle, I’d conclude that, depending on which scenario from above is the correct one, Doran’s next move will be a winning one. That could simply mean that Doran’s plans concerning Myrcella, Ser Balon, and the consequences of the failed Queenmakerplot work out in Doran’s favour, though I wouldn’t consider that an attack. It could, perhaps, imply that Darkstar will indeed meet his ending (as per Dorans wishes, it would seem). But it could also simply imply that Doran joins sides with Aegon and the Golden Gompany (who have actual elephants, strengthening the parallel), and that their first combined move is one in favour of Dorne.

A last interpretation, as the word “toying” is used… Doran is pondering which move will be the winning one, hence the black cyvasse piece.

That was all I could find on elephants (and the colour of cyvasse pieces). But let’s go back to Dorne :)

“Cyvasse is not for me”

My brother loved the fight for its own sake, but I only play such games as I can win. Cyvasse is not for me.”

Doran here admits that he does not play games he cannot win, and thus does not play cyvasse (mental picture of Oberyn and Doran practising the game here, with Doran losing, hehe). He does, however, prepare to play the game of thrones, indicating that he expects to win, though he will only enter the game until his chances are good enough. This political game is one he has studied long, and prepared for, and he’s now trying to do the same with Arianne.

The Player’s Piece: The Heavy Horse

A short while later, we read this:

She touched one of the cyvasse pieces, the heavy horse.

Looking up the exact definition for “heavy horse” on Wikipedia, I found the following:

Heavy cavalry is a class of cavalry^[1] whose primary role was to engage in direct combat with enemy forces (shock troops).^{[citation needed]}Although their equipment differed greatly depending on the region and historical period, they were generally mounted on large powerful horses, and were often equipped with some form of scale, plated, chainmail or lamellar armor as well as either swords, maces, lances, orbattle axes.

è Shock troops or assault troops are formations created to lead an attack. […]Military units which contain assault troops are typically organized for mobility with the intention that they will penetrate through enemy defenses and attack into the enemy's vulnerable rear areas.

(please note how in the first definition, there is no available source referencing to shock troops.)

I am wondering whether this is foreshadowing on Arianne leading an attack, once Dorne enters the war. Of course, I’m not talking about leading the attack literally, as Arianne has not been trained in combat, but more about a commanding/ruling role.

The fact that this sentence is immediately followed by “Have you caught Ser Gerold?”, could also mean that the foreshadowing is directed towards Arianne being the leading cause to Gerold being caught, though, with Hotah and Obara being the ones to chase Gerold, and with Arianne eventually travelling in the other direction, this interpretation seems less likely to me.

Another interpretation is that Arianne is going to hunt down the person who foiled her plans. If, in fact, someone told.

Eventually, Doran states that

Still, this was no harmless game of cyvasse.

Neatly explaining that, while it is no problem to lose at cyvasse, losing in other “games” could harmful.

“Open your eyes!”

One wonderful little tidbit is displayed in another part of the conversation:

“Oberyn is with me every time I close my eyes.”

“Telling you to open them, no doubt.” She seated herself across the cyvasse table from her father.

Arianne telling her father to open his eyes, at the exact moment that she herself sits down across the cyvasse table. A little bit ironic, her timing, considering that she herself has to open her eyes for the game, to see exactly how to play (and, most importantly, how to win).

Fire and Blood: The Black Dragon

Loving how the chapter ends! With all the symbolism surrounding cyvasse here, the last passage is beautiful.

Her father plucked up a cyvasse piece. “I must know how you learned that Quentyn was abroad. Your brother went with Cletus Yronwood, Maester Kedry, and three of Lord Yronwood’s best young knights on a long and perilous voyage, with an uncertain welcome at its end. He has gone to bring us back our heart’s desire.”

She narrowed her eyes. “What is our heart’s desire?”

“Vengeance.” His voice was soft, as if he were afraid that someone might be listening. “Justice.” Prince Doran pressed the onyx dragon into her palm with his swollen, gouty fingers, and whispered, “Fire and blood.”

While at first we are not told which cyvasse piece Doran picks up while talking about Quentyn and his eventual goal, during his next sentences it becomes clear that it is the black dragon piece that he is holding in his hand. The dragon, of course, because Quentyn has gone to Daenerys Targaryen, but more importantly, the black dragon piece, quite possibly symbolizing Drogon, the dragon with whom Dany has bonded personally (though Doran of course can’t know that yet, as 1) it hasn’t happened fully yet, and 2) as it occurs half a world away).

A few remarks in between.

Other players:

In chapter 36 of A Feast for Crows, we learn that

Margaery was in the Maidenvault, sipping wine and trying to puzzle out some new game from Volantis with her three cousins.

Cyvasse originates from Volantis. It arrived in Dorne first, but it seems only natural that it would slowly gain “fame” in the rest of Westeros as well. Margaery is thus practising “the game”, as the player of the game of thrones that she is ;)

Arianne’s future:

A small tibit from the Winds of Winter sample chapter, that Julia Martell will no doubt discuss and analyse in further detail.

In Winds, Arianne is seen practising the game cyvasse, possibly symbolizing that she realised the need to practise the game. The outcome of those two games though…

Arys & Cyvasse:

Cyvasse, the game was called. It had come to the Planky Town on a trading galley from Volantis, and the orphans had spread it up and down the Greenblood. The Dornish court was mad for it.

Ser Arys just found it maddening.

From The Spoiled Knight chapter. I’m not certain that it can count as foreshadowing, as cyvasse is not yet heavily associated with the game of thrones until the later dornish chapters, but it is a nice little bit, already showing how the game of thrones is not for Arys. And indeed, later on in that same chapter, we see how he is manipulated by Arianne, into doing exactly what she wants him to do in the “game”. You would say that a good player does not allow for himself/herself to be manipulated that easily.

And here ends the cyvasse symbolism, in this chapter.

What this part of the chapter is meant to show, imo, is that Arianne has only little experience in the game of thrones, and that she needs practise and learn, if she ever hopes to win. You first practise a game before you play against someone, especially when losing has a rather lethal outcome (“Either you win or you die”). You don’t blindly jump into a war for the Iron Throne. Arianne’s reflection during her imprisonment was necessary, and did not come too early at all. Now, we have to wait and see whether Arianne has learned from her mistakes, will continue to learn from them, and will be capable to play the game and win.

Motivation & Tricks of the mind

Of course, Doran and Arianne speak about much more than just cyvasse ;) You’d almost forget while reading this.

Arianne’s Motivation

“Why? Tell me that, Arianne. Tell me why.”

“For the honor of our House.” Her father’s voice made her angry. He sounded so sad, so exhausted, so weak. You are a prince! she wanted to shout. You should be raging! “Your meekness shames all Dorne, Father. Your brother went to King’s Landing in your place, and they killed him!”

Arianne here proclaims that the Queenmaker-plot was for the honour of House Martell. That is a bit in contrast with her previous remarks on the goal of the plot. She wanted Dorne, something which she eventually, later on in the conversation, states. Here, though, she does not yet admit to such, and tries to use a different approach.

“Lord Tywin is howling down in hell... where thousands more will soon be joining him, if your folly turns to war.” Her father grimaced, as if the very word were painful to him. “Is that what you want?”

The princess refused to be cowed. “I want my cousins freed. I want my uncle avenged. I want my rights.”

“Your rights?”

“Dorne.”

Here Arianne finally states the true why. She was doing what she was doing, not for vengeance, which is the fuel for the Sand Snakes, for Oberyn, and even for Doran. It was for herself. Which is a difference in “reasons” that should be noted. Interestingly enough, the fact that Arianne is driven by personal ambition, creates a parallel with the Tyrells, who are playing the game of thrones for personal ambition as well. Where the Tyrells are playing the game to win the throne, Arianne plays to win Dorne. The difference between Arianne and the Tyrells, though, is that while Arianne has legal grounds to want and try to get Dorne (to feel she is entitled to Dorne), the Tyrells have no rights by law on the Iron Throne.

Despite their difference in reasons, though, the end result for Arianne and Doran is the same. Both Arianne’s personal ambition, and Doran’s desire for vengeance, are leading towards a war.

Tricks of the Mind

“I never meant her harm,” Arianne insisted. “If Hotah had not interfered...”

“... you would have crowned Myrcella queen, to raise a rebellion against her brother. Instead of an ear, she would have lost her life.”

“Only if we lost.”

“If? The word is when. Dorne is the least populous of the Seven Kingdoms. It pleased the Young Dragon to make all our armies larger when he wrote that book of his, so as to make his conquest that much more glorious, and it has pleased us to water the seed he planted and let our foes think us more powerful than we are, but a princess ought to know the truth. Valor is a poor substitute for numbers. Dorne cannot hope to win a war against the Iron Throne, not alone. And yet that may well be what you have given us. Are you proud?” The prince did not allow her time to answer. “What am I to do with you, Arianne?”

That Arianne here insists that they could have won, with Myrcella as their queen, as well as her thoughts during The Queenmaker, shows that Arianne did her very best to never have to consider the possibility of loosing, her plan failing. Every time such a thought might come to the surface, she was quick to push them back. Her nervosity during those moments shows that the thoughts about her plans going wrong were there.. She just refused to consider them.

Arianne, in The Queenmaker, never spoke/thought about a plan in case they failed. There was only winning. Doran spells it out for her here, that Myrcella would have died, had Arianne been able to carry out her plan, repeating the same message Tyrion receives from Illyrio in Dance. “To crown her is to kill her.” Hoping that Dorne on their own could win a war against the throne, is an illusion. It is simply not true.* Arianne needs to get her facts straight, before attempting to play the game.

*While I personally believe that Dorne does have a bigger army as is generally believed on forum, it is important to realise that Doran is speaking about a war against 6 Kingdoms united, 5 of which can deliver an army to fight against Dorne, if so necessary (the North has its own troubles to deal with, currently). While Dorne in the past has been able to withstand and survive multiple wars and conquests for Dorne, that it shows that Dorne is very good at fighting, and winning, despite their enemies having the better numbers. They show that numbers aren’t everything. But had Arianne crowned Myrcella and remained in Dorne with the girl (“Dornishmen fight best at home, so I say let us hone our spears and wait”), that would have been seen as a hollow gesture. Arianne would have needed to actually fight outside of Dorne, in order to get Myrcella on the throne. And that change of battleground, therein lies the danger.

Doran Martell

What this second half of the chapter also does, is giving us a better look into the personality of Prince Doran Martell, and one specific character trait is important here.

Whether Arianne likes it or not, she and her father are quite alike. Both can be patient when it involves long-term plans, for example, (Doran for his 17-year wait to avenge Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon, Arianne for taking more than half a year for getting her hands on Myrcella). Both are capable of hiding their anger for a long time (Arianne towards Doran, for believing for years that he didn’t think she was worth being his heir, Doran for Elia’s murder), and show that it is their main motivation for the things they do.

Yet this chapter underlines a fault in Doran as well, that had already been hinted at in previous chapters:

You are my daughter, Arianne. The little girl who used to run to me when she skinned her knee. I found it hard to believe that you would conspire against me. I had to learn the truth.”

[-----]

When he raised his head to look at her, his dark eyes were clouded with pain. Is that the gout? Arianne wondered. Or is it me? “A strange and subtle folk, the Volantenes,” he muttered, as he put the elephant aside. “I saw Volantis once, on my way to Norvos, where I first met Mellario. The bells were ringing, and the bears danced down the steps. Areo will recall the day.”

“I remember,” echoed Areo Hotah in his deep voice. “The bears danced and the bells rang, and the prince wore red and gold and orange. My lady asked me who it was who shone so bright.”

Prince Doran smiled wanly. “Leave us, captain.”

[-----]

“The pact was sealed in secret. I meant to tell you when you were old enough... when you came of age, I thought, but...”

“I am three-and-twenty, for seven years a woman grown.”

“I know. If I kept you ignorant too long, it was only to protect you. Arianne, your nature... to you, a secret was only a choice tale to whisper to Garin and Tyene in your bed of a night. Garin gossips as only the orphans can, and Tyene keeps nothing from Obara and the Lady Nym. And if they knew... Obara is too fond of wine, and Nym is too close to the Fowler twins. And who might the Fowler twins confide in? I could not take the risk.”

[-----]

He sighed. “It has not been so long since you were playing in those pools. You used to ride the shoulders of an older girl... a tall girl with wispy yellow hair...”

In this chapter alone, we see four examples of how Doran seems to dwell on the past a lot. And that influenced how he acted towards Arianne. The first quote shows how he still views Arianne as a little girl (it seems that Arianne is at least slightly aware, as one of her first plans is to dress provocatively in order to make Doran uncomfortable when she has to go beg for forgiveness).

The second quote simply shows another example of this pattern of behaviour, where Doran smiles at the memory of having met his wife, his true love, all those years ago, while they have been at odds for roughly a decade. It’s sweet to read that the memory of meeting Mellario is still such a very fond one, and can make him smile, despite the way their marriage ended.

The third quote is a bit more complicated. As has been shown by Chebyshov in the first set of analyses, Doran not telling Arianne of his plans regarding her engagement had good ground, as he feared that she might tell Tyene, who might tell someone else, who might tell someone else, etc. Chebyshov showed that Arianne and Tyene truly are close.. close enough for Doran to expect Tyene when meeting with Arianne. The first half of this chapter underlined this, when Arianne thinks to herself that, despite missing all of her cousins, she misses Tyene the most.

But I would like to focus on the other part of this quote. “I meant to tell you when you were old enough… when you came of age, I thought” and “If I kept you ignorant for too long, it was only to protect you” specifically. These two sentences show that, despite originally planning to tell her when she was 16 years old, Doran chose not to do it. To protect her, he claims. Did he feel that she was not grown up enough to realise that some secrets should not be shared with Tyene? It makes me wonder how Arianne was behaving back then.

Was her behaviour bad enough, making Doran decide that she was still a little girl, in behaviour? And what caused that behaviour? Arianne having read Dorans letter, two years before? Was Arianne acting out, in whatever way she choose to do so, and did Doran observe that behaviour (not knowing what caused it, exactly), and decided because of that observation that she could not be trusted with the information? Had he told her, Arianne would have understood so much at such an early age, that her reactions to Doran’s behaviour would not have occurred the way they did. It seems to have been a downwards spiral.. Showing us that communication is vital. Keeping your secrets is a good thing, during this game that Doran plays, but there’s such a thing as keeping your secrets “too well”.

We can wonder, whether Doran ever thought about testing Arianne, to see if she was capable of keeping a secret as big as her engagement to Viserys. Did he ever consider this, or simply make his choice of not telling her based on his observations? Doran would be correct in stating that Arianne and Tyene are extremely close, but as we’ve discussed in the previous weeks, it seems like Arianne hasn’t told Tyene about Doran’s letter, nor about Quentyn’s “mission”. Arianne knows how to keep the important secrets from Tyene. It’s a shame that Doran didn’t saw this/realise this capability of Arianne.

The fourth quote also shows Doran remembering Arianne as a young girl, playing in the Water Gardens (which seems to symbolize peace to Doran). “It has not been so long…”, whereas it has been 14 years. He does the same thing to Obara, in The Captain of Guards, when stating that it hasn´t been that long that she had been playing in the pools… While it had been about 18 years ago.

The remainder of the conversation

The rest of the conversation offers interesting insights as well:

The meek prince

Despite everyone thinking of Doran as a meek, cautious, scared man, there are multiple occasions where they fear that Doran will actually kill or hurt others:

• Arianne ponders whether Arys thought that he had been saving her, when charging into Hotah’s axe.
• “Tell me the rest, Father... or else name Quentyn your heir and send for Hotah and his axe, and let me die beside my cousins.” Arianne seems to believe that Doran would actually hurt the Sand Snakes. A strange believe for someone who thinks of her own father as feeble.

Broken trust

During their conversation, Doran lies a few times to Arianne:

• “Someone told.” But Doran does not mention who told, nor is he going to do so in the near future.
• “You have my word, your brother has not gone to Lys. I swear it by sun and spear and Seven.” Yet Quentyn’s first ship delivers him to Lys. While Doran can have no idea what Quentyn does after getting of his first ship, the chances that Doran was not aware what the destination of Quentyn’s first ship was, are very low, almost non-existent, imo.

Doran’s friends

It seems that Doran has quite a lot of friends Across the Narrow Sea. Tyrosh, Norvos, Braavos (at least in the past, we can’t know about the current Sealord, though).. Making me wonder whether the marriage of Sylva to Eldon Estermont is a way of making friends in the Stormlands. Estermont has sons and grandsons, and has a high chance to die within years, judging by his age. So while there is a chance that Sylva might have a child by Eldon, that child won’t inherit, at a first look. However, depending on which family tree of the Estermonts is correct (http://www.awoiaf.westeros.org/House_Estermont/Theories), it might just work out that the other Estermonts can be declared traitors (as all are supporting Baratheons, true and fake), which would lead to Sylva’s child by Eldon becoming a possible Lord of Greenstone.

Loyalty

Though Arianne has been plotting against Doran, she displays one other character trait in this chapter that is of the utter most importance: loyalty, to those she considers to be her friends.

“I ask leniency only for my friends.”

“How noble of you.”

“What they did they did for love for me. They do not deserve to die on Ghaston Grey.”

She is also obviously loyal to Ser Arys. This chapter (first half) has already shown that there were some true feelings for him, hidden inside. He was not just a means to an end (though it seems quite likely that that was how it started out). And even though Arys is dead, and it would have been rather easy to betray his memory, Arianne insists they don’t do this:

“No,” Arianne said. “Say that he died defending his little princess. Tell Ser Balon that Darkstar tried to kill her and Ser Arys stepped between them and saved her life.” That was how the white knights of the Kingsguard were supposed to die, giving up their own lives for those that they had sworn to protect.

Princes and Plans:

“We princes make our careful plans and the gods smash them all awry”

Doran has no idea how right he is here. Not only does this apply to Dorans’ first plan, but to Oberyn’s plans regarding fighting Gregor, Doran’s second plan (though Doran has yet to learn of this), and Quentyn’s plan.

But they are not the only princes whose plans went badly. As it isn’t Arianne centric, I won’t say much about it, but Prince Rhaegar and his plans and plots and prophecies come to mind ;) And it wouldn’t be the first time an Arianne-POV would give subtle hints to the Starks and the Rebellion.

Doran’s lessons

Despite feeling disappointed in Arianne, Doran continues to teach her wisdoms:

“You think I cannot discover the truth on my own?”

“You are welcome to try. Until such time you must mistrust them all... and a little mistrust is a good thing in a princess.” Prince Doran sighed. “You disappoint me, Arianne.”

Interestingly, this is immediately followed by Arianne displaying thoughts about another one of Doran’s wisdoms, that we’ve seen in The Captain of Guards.

“Said the crow to the raven. You have been disappointing me for years, Father.” She had not meant to be so blunt with him, but the words came spilling out. There, now I have said it.

This brings the first mention of Arianne to mind: “Words are like arrows. Once loosened, you cannot call them back.”

And the lesson of “a little mistrust is a good thing in a princess” is immediately used later on in the chapter, when Doran tells her that she had been promised from an early age on. Instead of believing him immediately, she remains suspicious.. Though one can argue that she would have been suspicious of those words even if he hadn’t told her to mistrust everyone a little ;)

The loyalty of Dorne’s nobility

Despite many believing Doran to be weak, and to have a weak hold on Dorne, this chapter suggests the opposite. Doran’s high lords and ladies are doing their best to delay Ser Balons arrival at Sunspear. Doran knows not only how they have delayed him so far (which he could have been told by raven), but he also knows how those left are planning on delaying the white knight (suggesting that it is possible that the idea’s all came from him in the first place). The fact that all of Doran’s lords and ladies are actually following the command, considering how vague that command must have been*, should show that the nobility of Dorne at least is still rather loyal to him.

That’s in nice contrast with Prince Oberyn, and also with Arianne. The small folk seem to have been more loyal to Oberyn, and they love Arianne. Combining these two (nobility and small folk), Doran and Arianne might just be capable of uniting all of Dorne for the war to come.

That also begs the question on how well Arianne’s Queenmaker-plot would have worked. If the high lords are still this loyal to Doran, would any of them have even considered supporting Arianne/Myrcella?

Now, naturally, the is a difference between following the orders of your liege, and being truly loyal to him. We’ve seen that already, in the series. So the true loyalty of Doran’s lords and ladies cannot be stated with certainty, based on this information alone. Yet, with the vagueness concerning the message Doran must have send his lords and ladies, and with the rumours leaving Sunspear concerning the arrest of the Sand Snakes, and the fact that Arianne, who would normally most likely be a rather frequent public appearance, would have been out of sight for more than a month – a highly suspicious thing – it seems that Doran at least has a better hold over his dornish lords than others seem to expect.

*Doran would not have been able to tell them what Arianne had done, what had happened to Myrcella, and to Arys. Not only would that forever undermine Arianne’s future authority, after Doran’s death, but the risk that such news would fall in the wrong hands would have been too big, so it seems likely that Doran only send a command of what to do, not why it had to be done. And despite the vagueness of such a command, the nobility seems to be rather capable of significantly delaying Balon.

The letter

“Why not? You favor him and always have. He looks like you, he thinks like you, and you mean to give him Dorne, don’t trouble to deny it. I read your letter.” The words still burned as bright as fire in her memory.

“‘One day you will sit where I sit and rule all Dorne,’ you wrote him. Tell me, Father, when did you decide to disinherit me? Was it the day that Quentyn was born, or the day that I was born? What did I ever do to make you hate me so?” To her fury, there were tears in her eyes.

The trauma that has formed Arianne’s actions, thoughts and feelings for the past nine or ten years.

“He looks like you” is an interesting one. Hotah has emphasized how much Arianne looks like her mother previously, and the marriage of Mellario and Doran, as we know, ended badly. Is Arianne fearing here that part of the reason that Doran (in her mind) favors Quentyn over her, is because she looks like Mellario, while Quentyn looks like Doran?

It should also be noted that Arianne claims that Quentyn thinks like Doran.. Whereas elsewhere, she has stated that she doesn’t know Quentyn all that well. This is a reflection of the image of Quentyn Arianne has created in her mind. And as shown, Arianne and Doran are quite alike themselves. Yet it seems that Arianne hasn’t noticed that (yet).

“I never hated you.” Prince Doran’s voice was parchment-thin, and full of grief. “Arianne, you do not understand.”

Doran is filled with grief upon learning these thought of Arianne. He has spend more than nine years trying to make her queen. Realising that she had discovered part of his plan, but her interpreted it as him hating her, must hurt quite a lot. This revelation of Arianne also marks a change in the conversation, as Doran no longer becomes angry (as he did multiple times before).

And, at the same time, it makes him finally explain (parts) of his plans to her.

Forgive me

Forgive me, part of her wanted to say, but his words had cut her too deeply. “Why, do what you always do. Do nothing.”

Whilst Arianne wants to ask for Doran’s forgiveness, as she has thought of on multiple occasions in the entire chapter, she finds herself unable to, due to Doran’s response to her. So here we see, while Arianne desperately wants to say one thing, she instead says the other, which is probably a mixture of her pride, her anger, and her stubbornness. I can imagine that this conflict of feelings and actions occurred on multiple occasions in the past ten years, but instead of it being caused by Doran’s words, as happens in this instance, in those cases it would most likely have been caused by his actions (summoning Oberyn once a week, whilst her only once each half a year, etc.).

Arianne: Asking Questions:

I get the feeling every now and then that the more ”public” view people have on Arianne is not a very good one. Of course, we see her only shortly in The Captain of Guards, and when we finally do meet her “for real” in The Soiled Knight, we meet a woman who uses sex and manipulation to get a man to do what she wants him to do. That forms the opinion of most people on her, and seeing as how her failed Queenmaker-plot follows next, as far as Arianne and Dorne are concerned, upon a first read, it might be easy form a somewhat negative picture of her.

So I’d like, to finish this analysis, to draw the attention to a subtle, but important aspect of the conversation Arianne has with Doran, after weeks of not being spoken to, after weeks of not knowing what has happened in the world, and weeks and months, mostly, of being worried about her own fate. Julia Martell already mentioned the first instance in her analysis of last week, so see this as a follow-up.

Despite all her worries about herself and what will happen to her, the first question that Arianne asks when she gets the chance, is not “what will happen to me?”. No, instead, it’s

“What did you do with Cedra?”

In other words, what happened to the innocent girl I tried to use for a plot?

Once Arianne is with Doran, she again grabs the chance to ask questions when the chance presents itself, and again, these questions are not about herself. No, in fact, she asks…

“Have you caught Ser Gerold?” Have you caught the man who turned a failed plot into a disaster?

“Myrcella. Is she…?” This innocent girl that I used for my own plotting. Does she live?

(paraphrased) “Who told?” Who was the person that betrayed me?

“You knew, and yet you still allowed us to make off with Myrcella. Why?” Why risk the life of this innocent girl, if you already knew of my plans?

Every single time, Arianne does not inquire after what shall be done with her. She asks trice about the life of an innocent who was at risk, and twice about a betrayer. It seems that it was the confidence of getting these questions answered, that made Arianne return (at least partly) to her stubborn self, making statements (“My friends to not deserve to die. I ask leniency only for them. If blood must be spilled, let it be mine.” [paraphrased]) instead of questions (“What will happen with my friends?”).

But asking after all these other people, while she herself is in a pretty bad situation, definitely shows that Arianne is not a selfish person, but caring, and capable of taking responsibility.

Bonus

The question asked last week:

What does Arianne’s ignoring the books and cyvasse table in her room mean, if anything?

The symbolism with the cyvasse has been pointed out above, and ignoring the cyvasse table then gets an obvious meaning: she’s ignoring practise, and she’s done before.

The books, however, work into the meaning of cyvasse, and Doran’s adjusted plans regarding her:

During the daylight hours she would try to read, but the books that they had given her were deadly dull: ponderous old histories and geographies, annotated maps, a dry-as-dust study of the laws of Dorne, The Seven-Pointed Star and Lives of the High Septons, a huge tome about dragons that somehow made them about as interesting as newts. Arianne would have given much and more for a copy of Ten Thousand Ships or The Loves of Queen Nymeria, anything to occupy her thoughts and let her escape her tower for an hour or two, but such amusements were denied her.

- Histories and geographies: necessary for when you are going to take a leading role in a war, which Arianne is about to do. Also necessary for becoming a ruler.

- The laws of Dorne: Necessary to know when you are becoming a ruler

- The Seven-Pointed Star and Lives of the High Septons: a bit less certain about this one, but as the plan of Doran was to try and install Daenerys as the new ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, the High Septon would need to be appeased, as it seems that his blessing is necessary to get a lot of people to accept a new ruler (as seen with Tommen and Cersei’s worries about the High Septon not blessing him). Knowing the ins and outs about the Faith, especially if you are about to become the new face of Dorne (Doran isn’t going to travel, Arianne is going to be send out), is pretty useful when, in the future, you might need to smooth things over with the High Septon

- a huge tome about dragons: Daenerys has dragons. Dorne wishes to ally with Daenerys. Seems obvious.

Which again shows, that without the motivation (Doran letting her in on his secrets), Arianne isn’t going to practise/prepare much. She’s rather read about Queen Nymeria, the warrior queen, the strong woman, as she is herself.

[Chebyshov]

Wow, Rhaenys, that was simply amazing :bowdown: . I have been trying to figure out where to begin for the past half hour, but I feel like there's about 50 things I want to say. I'll get the ball rolling with a few knee-jerk responses I had, but I certainly can't wait to dive deeper into this over the next week.

Arianne: Asking Questions:

I get the feeling every now and then that the more ”public” view people have on Arianne is not a very good one. Of course, we see her only shortly in The Captain of Guards, and when we finally do meet her “for real” in The Soiled Knight, we meet a woman who uses sex and manipulation to get a man to do what she wants him to do. That forms the opinion of most people on her, and seeing as how her failed Queenmaker-plot follows next, as far as Arianne and Dorne are concerned, upon a first read, it might be easy form a somewhat negative picture of her.

So I’d like, to finish this analysis, to draw the attention to a subtle, but important aspect of the conversation Arianne has with Doran, after weeks of not being spoken to, after weeks of not knowing what has happened in the world, and weeks and months, mostly, of being worried about her own fate. Julia Martell already mentioned the first instance in her analysis of last week, so see this as a follow-up.

Despite all her worries about herself and what will happen to her, the first question that Arianne asks when she gets the chance, is not “what will happen to me?”. No, instead, it’s

“What did you do with Cedra?”

In other words, what happened to the innocent girl I tried to use for a plot?

Once Arianne is with Doran, she again grabs the chance to ask questions when the chance presents itself, and again, these questions are not about herself. No, in fact, she asks…

“Have you caught Ser Gerold?” Have you caught the man who turned a failed plot into a disaster?

“Myrcella. Is she…?” This innocent girl that I used for my own plotting. Does she live?

(paraphrased) “Who told?” Who was the person that betrayed me?

“You knew, and yet you still allowed us to make off with Myrcella. Why?” Why risk the life of this innocent girl, if you already knew of my plans?

Every single time, Arianne does not inquire after what shall be done with her. She asks trice about the life of an innocent who was at risk, and twice about a betrayer. It seems that it was the confidence of getting these questions answered, that made Arianne return (at least partly) to her stubborn self, making statements (“My friends to not deserve to die. I ask leniency only for them. If blood must be spilled, let it be mine.” [paraphrased]) instead of questions (“What will happen with my friends?”).

But asking after all these other people, while she herself is in a pretty bad situation, definitely shows that Arianne is not a selfish person, but caring, and capable of taking responsibility.

I absolutely love this. At the end of the day, Arianne is a good person. This is part of why I love her so much. Both she and Doran don't wish to see innocents harmed, and while the QM plot may have been a little careless in this respect, it's also the reason she didn't consider the alternative, killing Myrcella, even though that would have been a better way to ensure war coming to Dorne, where they fight best.

"What this part of the chapter is meant to show, imo, is that Arianne has only little experience in the game of thrones, and that she needs practise and learn, if she ever hopes to win"

I'm actually going to disagree slightly with that. I think she and Doran are much more in parallel with regards to their "blunders" and their need to practice the game. Both Arianne and Doran learn something from this, and both need to hone their skills a bit more. Doran wishes Arianne to study a game that he himself won't play: "cyvasse is not for me." Remember, "Every battle is a gamble, Snow. The man who does nothing also takes a risk." IMO, Doran needs to learn when to act if he ever hopes to win. They're both like, right there on the precipice of being the best goddamn players in Westeros. But they both need to learn a couple of things. Mostly to trust each other.

You know, this analysis actually highlights just how similar the mistakes were that Doran and Arianne made: they both underestimated each other. They had compelling reasons for thinking what they did, but at the end of the day, they both misunderstood each other's natures. Arianne could have kept a secret (as she did about the letter she read)/been a badass player, and Doran would never dismiss his daughter's rights. This is why I kind of dislike the idea that Doran is cowing his daughter into seeing the game from his point of view, and insisting that she practices, where he already has the understanding necessary. Doran is humbled at the end of the chapter, because he is absolutely blindsided by Arianne's knowledge of Quentyn's trip and accusation about her birthright. Both characters are met with realities that have them question their capabilities: Arianne's "failed" QM plot, and Doran's failings as a father. I'm guessing like his daughter, he probably internalizes this as well.

That’s in nice contrast with Prince Oberyn, and also with Arianne. The small folk seem to have been more loyal to Oberyn, and they love Arianne. Combining these two (nobility and small folk), Doran and Arianne might just be capable of uniting all of Dorne for the war to come.

Kickass.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

One of the reasons I believe Doran will definitely end up as a main winner in the game of thrones at the end (and if he doesn't, then Dorne), is because he seems to know very well the art of war, even if he's not himself a warrior.

First, one of the basics rules of deceiving in war is "fool your friends if you want to fool your foes". He doesn't mind Arianne believing him weak, he NEEDS her to believe him so, because if his own daughter considers him weak, then every other man in Dorne and Westeros will, even the Iron Throne.

Two, and I think this is the main reason for Arianne's isolation, is another known rule: "know yourself and you will win all battles". That's Sun Tzu. Whoever is the Westerosi version of him, Doran has definitely read him. Arianne doesn't know herself, she doesn't know how to be alone with her thoughts. She knows the enemy, but she doesn't know her limitations or Dorne's. By "knowing yourself", the author not only mean your own but what are your resources. Arianne only knows the lie Daeron has been telling, but not the reality of Dorne. That's why Doran wants her to practice Cyvasse: so she will know how to deal with the hand she has, not the one she might obtain.

Damn... I almost tempted on a Doran/SunTzu's AoW parallel...

[Hrafntýr]

Beautiful work, Rhaenys!

While there's a lot to think about here, I've a few initial thoughts on the cyvasse motif.

First, regarding elephants: The fact that the conversation while Doran is toying with his elephant is about Volantis brings to mind an additional meaning of elephants: the Volantene elephant/tiger juxtaposition, elephants seek to avoid war as they position for power, while the tigers favour use of the sword. Doran has been amassing power through secret machinations and most likely diplomacy for some time, in the manner of a Volantene elephant; the daughter before him is much more a tiger.

I really, really love the cyvasse analysis, and what it suggests about Arianne's development. In particular, there are two suggestions for Arianne running throughout the discussion of cyvasse. First, one needs to understand the pieces, their strengths and weaknesses, the ways in which they can be deployed: an elephant is different from a dragon is different from heavy horse is different from trebuchet etc.. Arianne seems to have created a sort of rough overview of her pieces, but it's not really clear that she really understands the differing uses to which they can be put. For her, it seems like they are all sort of lumped together in one category: do I have "enough" on my side, or more than Quentyn would have on his?

Second, one needs to understand the how a game is brought to completion, which it would seem is the message of Doran's remarks about how Arienne should have been playing against herself during her confinement. Arienne comes across rather like Aegon during his match with Tyrion: he's really only thought about the opening of the game (to use a chess analogy). Arienne seems to have given little thought to her middle game or to her end game. One can certainly start a game with a strong, well-known opening that sets one up in a good position, but if you don't know what to do in the middle or end, you'll probably be crushed. Arienne didn't seem to have thought through or worked through many future scenarios, how different pieces might be moved against her (the one exception would be her assumption that Yronwood was the most likely to move against her, against whom she thought to move her "heavy horse" Darkstar; it's totally unclear how realistic such a move might be, since it's unclear that she understands what kind of piece Yronwood might be. Again, it seems like the differences between pieces might be somewhat lost on her at present.)

And sadly, during her confinement, in her thoughts she still didn't really go beyond the opening. She was stuck with the thought of what went wrong, which to be fair makes some sense, but is also dangerous, because she might still think that her plan could have worked, had they only not been caught. I am intensely curious to see if she will begin to show more appreciation for the longer game, without losing the energy and forcefulness and ambition that has marked her character.

[SeanF]

A great write-up, but a question.

What has Dorne got to fight for now? The murderers of Elia and her children have died horribly, and Dorne's seat on the Small Council has been restored.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I'm actually going to disagree slightly with that. I think she and Doran are much more in parallel with regards to their "blunders" and their need to practice the game. Both Arianne and Doran learn something from this, and both need to hone their skills a bit more. Doran wishes Arianne to study a game that he himself won't play: "cyvasse is not for me." Remember, "Every battle is a gamble, Snow. The man who does nothing also takes a risk." IMO, Doran needs to learn when to act if he ever hopes to win. They're both like, right there on the precipice of being the best goddamn players in Westeros. But they both need to learn a couple of things. Mostly to trust each other.

You know, this analysis actually highlights just how similar the mistakes were that Doran and Arianne made: they both underestimated each other. They had compelling reasons for thinking what they did, but at the end of the day, they both misunderstood each other's natures. Arianne could have kept a secret (as she did about the letter she read)/been a badass player, and Doran would never dismiss his daughter's rights. This is why I kind of dislike the idea that Doran is cowing his daughter into seeing the game from his point of view, and insisting that she practices, where he already has the understanding necessary. Doran is humbled at the end of the chapter, because he is absolutely blindsided by Arianne's knowledge of Quentyn's trip and accusation about her birthright. Both characters are met with realities that have them question their capabilities: Arianne's "failed" QM plot, and Doran's failings as a father. I'm guessing like his daughter, he probably internalizes this as well.

O, definitly, Doran isn't without needing to learn from this experience. I never meant to suggest that. I think that Doran discovering that, not only did Arianne learn of his "secret message" to Quentyn years ago, she also learned about Quentyn going abroad, which would definitly have been something Doran would have tried his best to keep quiet, were eye-openers to him. He might be a subtle player, but he hasn't been as good in hiding all his secrets as he originally believed.

Beautiful work, Rhaenys!

While there's a lot to think about here, I've a few initial thoughts on the cyvasse motif.

First, regarding elephants: The fact that the conversation while Doran is toying with his elephant is about Volantis brings to mind an additional meaning of elephants: the Volantene elephant/tiger juxtaposition, elephants seek to avoid war as they position for power, while the tigers favour use of the sword. Doran has been amassing power through secret machinations and most likely diplomacy for some time, in the manner of a Volantene elephant; the daughter before him is much more a tiger.

Yeah, I thought about that too. It especially caught my attention that so far, no tiger pieces have been mentioned on the cyvasse board, only elephants :p

But Doran being able to identify more to the elephants party, and Arianne more to the tigers party, might suggest indeed, as I said above when talking about their influence on Dorne's population, that together, Doran and Arianne could form a good team in uniting Dorne for the battles to come.

A great write-up, but a question.

What has Dorne got to fight for now? The murderers of Elia and her children have died horribly, and Dorne's seat on the Small Council has been restored.

We don't even know if Dorne had held a seat on the Small Council to begin with.

The killers of Elia, Rhaenys, and possibly Aegon might all have died horribly, but it is quite clear that Doran is beyond focussing on that alone. He wants a Targaryen in power, he wants the Lannisters overthrown. Tywin might be dead, but that doesn't mean that Doran is willing to "suffer" Tywin's grandchild on the throne. The hatred for Lannisters that the Martells feel goes deep :)

And let's not forget, that Cersei "attacked" House Martell already on her own: her plot to have Trystane killed, and Doran witness the murder. If this is indeed a true plot, which it very well might have been, as it would fit Cersei's pattern of paranoia.

And especially now, with Aegon's return to Westeros, House Martell has even more reason to fight: Aegon is Elia's son, Doran's own nephew, as far as the story goes. Doran now has a chance to put things the way there were once supposed to be: placing the original (eventual) heir to the throne on the throne.

[Chebyshov]

Damn... I almost tempted on a Doran/SunTzu's AoW parallel...

Do it! :drool:

Doran’s lessons

Despite feeling disappointed in Arianne, Doran continues to teach her wisdoms:

“You think I cannot discover the truth on my own?”

“You are welcome to try. Until such time you must mistrust them all... and a little mistrust is a good thing in a princess.” Prince Doran sighed. “You disappoint me, Arianne.”

Interestingly, this is immediately followed by Arianne displaying thoughts about another one of Doran’s wisdoms, that we’ve seen in The Captain of Guards.

“Said the crow to the raven. You have been disappointing me for years, Father.” She had not meant to be so blunt with him, but the words came spilling out. There, now I have said it.

This brings the first mention of Arianne to mind: “Words are like arrows. Once loosened, you cannot call them back.”

And the lesson of “a little mistrust is a good thing in a princess” is immediately used later on in the chapter, when Doran tells her that she had been promised from an early age on. Instead of believing him immediately, she remains suspicious.. Though one can argue that she would have been suspicious of those words even if he hadn’t told her to mistrust everyone a little ;)

I still haven't been able to form my thoughts in a coherent way, but I wanted to sing my praises for this bit. I love that it's clear Arianne has been taking Doran's lessons to heart, which is also noted in her Queenmaker chapter (I think we've called this out before, but here ya go):

Drey had wanted a larger party, but that might have attracted unwelcome attention, and every additional man doubled the risk of betrayal. That much my father taught me, at the least.

It's great that unbeknownst to Doran, Arianne has been listening and does value his opinion (like DV showed us with her thoughts about Darkstar) and can follow his lead. And that's with her thinking that he hates her. Imagine what would have happened if this elephant in the room (not just the cyvasse elephants :P) had been addressed years before?

Okay, maybe "great" isn't the best adjective; "tragic," "frustrating," or "heart-breaking" might be better.

[SeanF]

Do it! :

It's great that unbeknownst to Doran, Arianne has been listening and does value his opinion (like DV showed us with her thoughts about Darkstar) and can follow his lead. And that's with her thinking that he hates her. Imagine what would have happened if this elephant in the room (not just the cyvasse elephants :P) had been addressed years before?

Okay, maybe "great" isn't the best adjective; "tragic," "frustrating," or "heart-breaking" might be better.

I mostly blame Doran for the communication breakdown. Arianne is his heir and needs to know his plans, whatever her shortcomings may be. The only justification for not telling her would be if Doran were convinced that she was such a liability that she had to be disinherited. If that were so, then it should be done publicly, with the agreement of his vassals.

Being Queen of Westeros would have been no sinecure either. Queens have households to manage, and often act as regents or diplomats. Again, he should have been educating her.