Night's Watch command structure?

[The Dragon Demands]

I want to get this straight:

The Lord Commander is the leader of the entire organization. The First Ranger is the head of all the Rangers, the First Builder the head of all the Builders, and the First Steward the head of all the Stewards.

Now when I say "head of all", this means that the three "Firsts" are technically considered the head of their department for the entire Wall. That is, Bowen Marsh is theoretically in charge of the Stewards at the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch-by-the-Sea?

Does this mean that First Ranger Benjen Stark, or Denys Mallister, are the commander of the Rangers at the Shadow Tower?

Apparently, the Lord Commander also serves as the immediate commander of the fortress where the Night's Watch is headquartered? (which for two centuries, has been Castle Black - thus Jeor Mormont was both Lord Commander of the entire organization, as well as immediate commander of Castle Black itself? There's no mention of a subordinate garrison commander, I think).

Thus, the other castles along the wall don't have their own "First Builder" or "First Ranger" -- these are...aides/advisors/attaches to the Lord Commander himself?

I would assume that each castle at least has its own sub-commander for such tasks, i.e. there's got to be one lead Steward at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea in the sense that there has to be a head cook in the kitchens.

But I'm worried that this is too much speculation/supposition.

Is it more that there's a Lord Commander (who doubles as immediate commander of the HQ fort, Castle Black), along with his three advisors the Firsts (Ranger, Builder, Steward), and then any additional fort has its own local garrison commander? (which would be Denys Mallister for the Shadow Tower and Cotter Pyke for Eastwatch-by-the-Sea).

As for Maesters, there's Aemon at Castle Black, Harmune at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, and Mullin at the Shadow Tower.

Still the question stands, at the start of the novels:

• The Lord Commander apparently doubles as garrison commander of the headquarters fortress (Castle Black)
  
• In the current generation there are actually only two other operational castles anyway, the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch-by-the-Sea.
  
• Is the "First Ranger" an advisor to the Lord Commander on Ranger-matters? (almost like a mini-Small Council)....or, can the First Ranger command the "Garrison commanders" Denys Mallister (Shadow Tower) and Cotter Pyke (Eastwatch)?
  
• In which case, what if the First Ranger commands Mallister's rangers to do one thing, but the First Steward gives a conflicting order to Mallister's stewards?
  
• I think it makes more sense if the "Firsts" are advisors to the Lord Commander; I don't see how Benjen was actually the "head" Ranger -- if he gave commands to Mallister's rangers....isn't it Mormont's job to tell Mallister what to make his own rangers do?
  

The thought occurred that I don't really know how to draw this in an actual organizational chart.

[Tyrus Martell]

The Night's Watch command structure just hasn't been explored or elaborated on enough to give concrete answers, really.

I'd assume First Ranger acts an advisor on his division, and would consult the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch commanders as well as the LC for final approval.

I would assume that each castle at least has its own sub-commander for such tasks, i.e. there's got to be one lead Steward at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea in the sense that there has to be a head cook in the kitchens.

A man named Borcas is said to be the head steward at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea in AGOT, though Aemon and other characters never mention him again.

There also seems to be master-at-arms at each of the three Castles, i.e. Alliser Thorne and Ser Endrew Tarth.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's a good question.

It looks like the lord commander at Castle Black is the top dog over everyone, obviously. Eastwatch and Shadowtower each also have their own commanders who have authority over the men of those castles but who ultimately report to the Castle Black LC.

It also looks like each castle has a primary builder, ranger (I think Qhorin held the position at Shadow Tower), steward and builder, plus a maester and master-at-arms. It's possible that being in that position at Castle Black, the primary keep, is what distinguished Benjen as first ranger, Bowen as first steward, etc. As to what would happen if Bowen's orders clashed with Eastwatch's head steward, I'm not sure. Higher command might have to break the stalemate. But if, say, rangers from all three castles were out beyond the Wall and the first ranger gave an order, I think they'd all be obligated to follow it, regardless of where they were stationed. But I imagine a life-or-death battle situation would be different from whatever monotony the stewards might disagree over.

[Lord Varys]

I guess all the 'First' guys are really the heads of the orders for the entirety of the NW, but have lower ranking equivalents in the two other castles who are in charge of the day-to-day ranging, building, stewarding etc. of the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch.

The First Builder and First Ranger would most likely command the rangers and builders from the other keeps to assist in task to big for the rangers/builders in CB to handle alone (i.e. a major building task, or a really big ranging). But the LC would most likely have been the guy who commanded that project/mission in the first place.

There may also be certain duties the garrisons of the smaller castles are supposed to conduct with their own human resources (i.e. ranging their perimeter, keeping their part of the Wall intact, etc.).

I'd also assume that the Lord Commander of the NW also always commanded his own keep directly (the Nightfort, and later Castle Black) just as the Iron Throne directly rules over the Crownlands.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I'm guessing that it goes a little as followed:

The Lord Commander tops everyone. In the end, he's responsible, and he can punish anyone who hasn't followed orders, or obeyed the rules. He can send commands to the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch, and has direct command over those at Castle Black.

Then you have the First Builder, First Ranger and First Steward. Though they indeed seem to be the head of their "departments", and thereby advise the Lord Commander (as well as the maester, who actually has the same job a maester would have at any castle, heal people and advise the ruler on what to do and what not to do), it seems that there might be similar positions at the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch. Qhorin Halfhand, for example, was the ultimate leader of the rangings that began from there. Though his position wouldn't be called "First Ranger", he might have just been fullfulling the position that comes directly after First Ranger.

Kind of like Jaremy Rykker, who filled Benjen's position in job, though not in name, when Benjen went missing.

Basically, the commanders at the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch, function as Lord Commanders, though they are not lord commanders in name (as there can only be one). It would make sense that thus those castles would also have people filling positions similar to First Builder/Steward/Ranger, in job, though not in name. They all report back, however, to the First Ranger/Builder/Steward, who in turn have to report back to the LC.

So if Qhorin orders a ranging from the Shadow Tower, and Benjen does the same from CB, and the two groups would meet up with one another (either arranged or by coincidence), the command would go to the person highest in command: the First Ranger, Benjen.

I'd say that, when all castles are manned, such jobs might be divided amongst a couple of castles which are located close together. Where only a couple of hours of travel is required to reach the next castle. Then, I can imagine, that you'd have those in command, with the "commander" in the middle castle (most logical) to hold the overall command. Though, I admit, this is pure speculation on my part.

[The Dragon Demands]

This is high on the "list of questions I would ask the writers if ever given the chance" (I have an actual list over on the wiki)

[blackbastardofthewall]

Royce leading that ranging in the first prologue always made me wonder about this. Apparently the Watch is not the meritocracy it claims. Do they single out knights and high borns as lieutenants early on?

[The Mountain That Flies]

Regarding disputes between departmental heads and castle commanders, it probably gets kicked up to the LC. Either position is going to be a guy with considerable backing, so I can't see the Watch wanting serious disputes ongoing. The LC would probably decide on a case-by-case basis who's orders everyone should follow, though obviously indivudal prejudices could shift this many ways.

Oh, and the dept. heads probably function the same way the Master of Laws or Coin does; they execute a number of mundane functions of the job, with their boss (LC, King) giving them broad directions as need be ("Figure out what Mance is up to", "Make us more money", etc.)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Royce leading that ranging in the first prologue always made me wonder about this. Apparently the Watch is not the meritocracy it claims. Do they single out knights and high borns as lieutenants early on?

Of course they do. It's still meritocratic, by the way. Those guys just have an education and experiences the NW desperately needs in its officers and is unable to provide itself.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Of course they do. It's still meritocratic, by the way. Those guys just have an education and experiences the NW desperately needs in its officers and is unable to provide itself.

Not only this, but when you, as LC of the NW, are in need of new weapons, or additional food, or such things, you are more likely to get what you need from a house if you've promoted their family member.

That said, if someone is truly, absolutely unqualified for the job, a LC will most likely always choose the more qualified, yet lowborn, guy. If the position is open and a choice has to be made between a highborn, slightly less qualified, or a lowborn, slightly more qualified, the highborn will have the bigger chance of being chosen, I think.

[The Dragon Demands]

Royce leading that ranging in the first prologue always made me wonder about this. Apparently the Watch is not the meritocracy it claims. Do they single out knights and high borns as lieutenants early on?

That's not what I'm asking. I'm talking about official command structure.

Waymar achieved a high rank by being fast-tracked due to being son of a wealthy lord who gave support to the Watch.

In general, though, the Watch will tend to promote noble-borns more quickly....simply due to the fact that they're more likely to have formal military training (Jon Snow kicked everyone's ass until it was pointed out that *of course* he would, the others were peasants who didn't grow up in a castle with a master-at-arms to train them). But that's simple practicality. The kind that's harder to avoid: they're short-staffed as it is, and the highborns tend to already have some combat training so they tend to be better at it.

But this is more of a trend than a rule and even guys who are completely lowborn can and have risen to high rank. This is still more meritocratic than in most of the rest of Westeros.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Royce leading that ranging in the first prologue always made me wonder about this. Apparently the Watch is not the meritocracy it claims. Do they single out knights and high borns as lieutenants early on?

You have to figure though that the knights and highborns are also trained at arms, literate, possibly with leadership or command experience before they get to the Wall. The lowborns are probably illiterate and untrained. Is it possible for lesser educated men to move up the ranks, sure. Is it unfair that the nobles come better prepared, yeah. But it still is a form of meritocracy, in that the highborns arrive with more merit.

[OldGimletEye]

I would think that the First Ranger, First Steward, and First Builder would act more like staff officers. Although, they might be more senior than the other castle commanders, they are not in the chain of command. The chain would run from the Lord Commander to the subordinate castle commanders.

Giving a modern analogy. Consider a modern infantry battalion. You usually have 3 company commanders whose boss is the battalion commander. The battalion commander will usually have several staff officers, like the supply officer, the operations officer and his executive officer. Often the battalion staff officers will be senior in rank to the company commanders. But the company commanders don't report directly to the battalion staff officers. Ultimately they are only responsible for following the orders of the battalion commander. Also, most battalion staff officers wouldn't try to give direct orders to a company commander's people because the chain of command is usually well respected.

[TheNinjaDC]

I always seen the "firsts" as the Lord Commanders equivalent of a small council. They are the heads of their field, but their power is derived from the Lord Commander who they advise.

[GallowsKnight]

I wouldn't be surprised if more than 90% of those in leadership positions were highborn or bastards, with the occasional Qorin Halfhand thrown into the mix.

[Tyrus Martell]

I wouldn't be surprised if more than 90% of those in leadership positions were highborn or bastards, with the occasional Qorin Halfhand thrown into the mix.

We see a few instances of common-born men taking leadership in the Watch. Blane was Qhorin Halfhand's second-in-command while he was away, and he commanded the Shadow Tower men during the massacre at Fist of the First Men. Then there's Cotter Pyke, head of Eastwatch. Iron Emmett was appointed to master-at-arms by Jon, but even Bowen Marsh and Othell Yarwyck valued his opinion and position in ADWD (said when Jon replaces him with Leathers later).

Unofficially, Dywen seems to have influence with the rangers on account of his age and experience, as noted in ADWD.

[TheNinjaDC]

I wouldn't be surprised if more than 90% of those in leadership positions were highborn or bastards, with the occasional Qorin Halfhand thrown into the mix.

Considering how rare reading and knightly training is for the non-highborn or bastards, I would not be surprised.

[Mithras]

I agree that the First X is the one at CB and he is the ultimate leader of faction X. Perhaps he has the authority in the distribution and appointment of the members of the faction X.

The LC obviously has to appoint a commander to other castles and grant him full authority in his stead. But I don't think there are other chiefs of different factions in the Shadow Tower or the Eastwatch. Denys Mallister can ask for more Xs to be sent to Shadow Tower but it is the LC's and the First X's decision to grant his wish.

[GallowsKnight]

We see a few instances of common-born men taking leadership in the Watch. Blane was Qhorin Halfhand's second-in-command while he was away, and he commanded the Shadow Tower men during the massacre at Fist of the First Men. Then there's Cotter Pyke, head of Eastwatch. Iron Emmett was appointed to master-at-arms by Jon, but even Bowen Marsh and Othell Yarwyck valued his opinion and position in ADWD (said when Jon replaces him with Leathers later).

Unofficially, Dywen seems to have influence with the rangers on account of his age and experience, as noted in ADWD.

Cotter Pyke is a bastard. Marsh is a Crannog house and for all we now Yarwyck may come from pretty nobility as he has a last name.

Dywen is respected like any veteran NCO should be but he isn't in a serious command position.

Nobles are the overwhelming majority, Mormont, Stark, Rykker, Thorne, Mallister, Smallwood, etc.

[The Dragon Demands]

I would think that the First Ranger, First Steward, and First Builder would act more like staff officers. Although, they might be more senior than the other castle commanders, they are not in the chain of command. The chain would run from the Lord Commander to the subordinate castle commanders.

Giving a modern analogy. Consider a modern infantry battalion. You usually have 3 company commanders whose boss is the battalion commander. The battalion commander will usually have several staff officers, like the supply officer, the operations officer and his executive officer. Often the battalion staff officers will be senior in rank to the company commanders. But the company commanders don't report directly to the battalion staff officers. Ultimately they are only responsible for following the orders of the battalion commander. Also, most battalion staff officers wouldn't try to give direct orders to a company commander's people because the chain of command is usually well respected.

...that's a good analogy but I'm still confused. In that analogy, the battalion commander has staff officers like a supply officer (First Steward) to advise him on supply matters. In real life, does the supply officer ever give actual commands to the supply divisions of the company commanders, or is his job simply to present the battalion commander with supply reports that the company-level supply officers forward to him?