EllsMormont Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Am I the only one who (cautiously) roots for the bear?! First, let's deal with his faults. He is an ex slaver, dishonouring his family and, in exile, lies to Dany by being an informant and spy for King Robert. He also often gives questionable advice to Dany on occasions, with motives that may be fuelled by his love for Dany. However, I love Jorah's backstory:His first wife of ten years was infertile and died through miscarriage. This shows a stoic man, willing to be faithful through 10 years of stressful marriage, despite not having an heir. His second wife was a true romantic story, with himself beating Jaime Lannister in the joust, that helps facilitate his permission to marry Lynese Hightower from her father. The bear and the maiden fair frames the story of Mormont and Hightower perfectly! The lengths that Jorah goes to, enslaving poachers and later selling his sword, to attempt to emulate Hightower's previous lifestyle, I feel, is worthy of respect; he is single minded in providing and making his love happy. How many other lords take such measures over their wives? Tragically his wife becomes estranged because of his lack of riches- a situation many can relate to. In short, he is at the same fault with Dany. He falls for her. Other than love, he is one of the most travelled characters in asoiaf. He seems to be knowledgeable in many aspects of essos and, of course, westeros life and competent in guiding Dany through her time with the khalasar and the free cities. Lots of shippers enjoy imagining a soft side to the hound in SanSan. We see the soft side of an outwardly gruff sellsword in Mormont and he is often mocked as 'friendzoned' with Dany. I want to spark discussion here: Is all fair in love and war? Slaving for love? Killing? Is it worth it when it's not reciprocal?! :drunk: And is Jorah anyone else's favourite?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113778-jorah-mildly-disturbing-or-tragically-romantic/ Nearly identical topic from less than a week ago. Locked now though, but you might find it interesting all the same. That said, Jorah is scum. Enslaving people to finance your wife's expensive lifestyle is not in the slightest worthy of respect. I can emphasize with him being willing to do a lot to keep his wife happy, and the basic desire to make your spouse happy is sadly rare in Westeros, indeed. But Jorah doesn't just cross the line, he takes a dump on it, then sprints into the distance trailing feces (his hatred of Ned Stark, specifically). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bungdon Umber Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I once farted really loudly in the local video store. Everyone turned and looked at me so I pointed at a old lady near me who must have been deaf as she wasn't looking. After I had left, I laughed fir a long time but then I felt guilty as the other customers were giving her the stink eye (lol very punny) and muttering about her. Also the person behind the counter was quite rude to the alleged wind breaker.I belive how I felt is how jorah must have felt, just making the best of a bad situation, but now he feels incredibly guilty. Or something along those lines. I just wanted to tell my story :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civility Reigns Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I once farted really loudly in the local video store. Everyone turned and looked at me so I pointed at a old lady near me who must have been deaf as she wasn't looking. After I had left, I laughed fir a long time but then I felt guilty as the other customers were giving her the stink eye (lol very punny) and muttering about her. Also the person behind the counter was quite rude to the alleged wind breaker.I belive how I felt is how jorah must have felt, just making the best of a bad situation, but now he feels incredibly guilty. Or something along those lines. I just wanted to tell my story :) This is one of the most profound analyses of Jorah's character I have ever read. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HatchetHarry Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I have a kind of a Randyl Tarly approach on Jorah: Love does not change anything. He did what he did and he had it coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 It's hard, because without Jorah Dany would very likely be dead, so as a fan or hers I'm kind of obliged to like him. And like many men, I understand how difficult it an be to care for someone and not be able to provide them with full happiness, so I empathize with his past.That said, if your wife is so unhappy that you need to bankrupt yourself just to kind of pacify her, it's possible you should reevaluate the relationship. While he shouldn't have just let her be miserable, what was preventing him from spending some time in Oldtown with her family? The Mormont women clearly can lead on their own, so he could have just effectively become a high-ranking household knight for the Hightowers and everyone would have been happy.Oh, and as for his "love" for Dany, I don't think Jorah has ever actually once looked at her situation from her own eyes. I don't doubt that he thinks he loves her, but it can't really be true love if they don't feel the same way about you. The use of the silver-haired prostitute in Volantis kind of crystallizes for me that he is more in love with the idea of Dany than with Dany the person, and while that kind of thought process can be deemed acceptable for a young romantic, Jorah has seen way too much of life to pull that kind of crap. I once farted really loudly in the local video store. Everyone turned and looked at me so I pointed at a old lady near me who must have been deaf as she wasn't looking. After I had left, I laughed fir a long time but then I felt guilty as the other customers were giving her the stink eye (lol very punny) and muttering about her. Also the person behind the counter was quite rude to the alleged wind breaker.I belive how I felt is how jorah must have felt, just making the best of a bad situation, but now he feels incredibly guilty. Or something along those lines. I just wanted to tell my story :)This is easily the best thing I've read on the boards in a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 This thread title is offensive to romantic slavers everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the one eared cat Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I want to spark discussion here: Is all fair in love and war? Slaving for love? Killing? Is it worth it when it's not reciprocal?! :drunk: And is Jorah anyone else's favourite?! He's one of my firm favourites, behind only Tyrion, Jon and Davos. I don't think there's an easy answer to your question. I'd have to quote Stannis: a good act does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good. Slaving is abhorrent, but I understand why he did it: it was clearly out of love and desperation. He tried to to give everything he could to his wife and was punished cruelly for it (by Lynesse - I believe exile is a reasonable punishment). You could also say that the universe gets its own back on him in ADWD where he himself is sold into slavery. Oh, his story is just so sad. I love him, I think he's so sweet and his story is so heartbreaking. He always falls for someone for whom he will never be able to provide, so resorts to desperate measures (he's not the cleverest of people, I'll give his haters that). I believe Dany's treatment of him is deplorable - she would have died probably whilst still with Drogo's khalasar without Jorah. He gave her good advice, he protected her, and he made up for his treachery at the beginning many times over by saving her life and helping her survive through the Red Waste and beyond. He was always honest with her, really, and tried to educate her about her family's past so she could be realistic. I really lost all sympathy for Dany after she exiled Jorah, because I couldn't understand how she could show mercy to thousands of Yunkai'i strangers and yet still not forgive her black bear... I do love Dany's hallucinations in ADWD: "All I ever wanted was to go home." "And me." "Yes," he said sadly. "And you." At last, she finally seems to feel remorse for what she's done! I'm just hoping that if she does take Westeros, she'll let him help her and then send him off to Bear Island or the Wall or somewhere where he an get on with his life, and finally be home and happy. He's just lonely, and misses home - whether he finds home in a location or a person. I will admit he gets annoying in ADWD but I don't really blame him, and his story is just so heartbreaking that I forgive him. Oh Jorah, I just love you so much! :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 OP, we know he was a slaver, and we know he was/is a romantic. The main question supposes that he cannot be both, when in fact, he can. Granted slaving in and of itself is far from romantic. And really, attempting to keep Lynesse by essentially buying her affection is not romance, it's desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllsMormont Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113778-jorah-mildly-disturbing-or-tragically-romantic/ Nearly identical topic from less than a week ago. Locked now though, but you might find it interesting all the same. Thanks for this other thread; most of what I wanted to discuss there! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 This thread title is offensive to romantic slavers everywhere. I was going to say "Why not both?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I was going to say "Why not both?" I agree with this. It's not impossible to be a slaver and a romantic. If the question is actually whether or not Jorah is a "good" character or not, then the question becomes more ambiguous. In Jorah's defense, the people he sold into slavery were apprehended for poaching. They probably would have been executed. I'm sure Ned Stark believed that executing a person was more honorable then selling them into slavery, but I'm not sure if everyone feels that way. Personally, I would rather be sold into slavery then executed. Personally, it's obvious to me that Jorah is a romantic and that his heart gets him into trouble. Same as a lot of other characters in the books. It is almost a running theme; the destructive power of love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanna Lannister Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 He is my favourite character too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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