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Thoros is AAR, he is forging lightbringer and this is how he´ll come to lead the fight against the others


Krugal

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I´ve been reading these forums for a couple of years and thought it was time to post a theory of my own (even though i´ve borrowed quite a lot from other theories).



The theory is basically that Thoros of Myr will fulfill the prophecy of Azor Ahai being reborn and lead the fight against the others, and that by resurrecting people he is in the process of forging Lightbringer, which vill eventually be Jaime Lannister with the ability to set his sword on fire. It seems to me to be quite like GRRM to have AA right under our noses from the first book, and for him to be a warrior priest in service of R´hollor is only logical. We will never get a POV from Thoros, and we will never get any real confirmation of the existence of R´hollor, we will only see Thoros fulfilling the prophecy in his own way.



What we know of the prophecy is that when the red star bleeds, AA will be reborn amidst salt and smoke to wake dragons out of stone. Of course, Thoros is spiritually very much reborn when the red comet is in the sky. We don´t know the exact circumstances, but it is probably when he resurrects Beric for the first time. Beric describes this:



"Sometimes I think I was born on the bloody grass in that grove of ash, with the taste of fire in my mouth and a hole in my chest. Are you my mother, Thoros?"



It seems to me like Thoros as well is born again at this moment, and that the conditions of salt and smoke could well be met. I´ll come back to the part about waking dragons out of stone. (This theory of course assumes that the prophecies of AA and TPTWP are separate and regard different persons. I don´t think Thoros was born from the line of Aerys and Rhaella.)



Thoros does not yet realise that he is fulfilling the prophecy, nor that he is in the process of forging Lightbringer (which is a person rather than a sword). By resurrecting Beric he makes his first attempt, which ends when it is "tempered in water". Beric describes that he is growing ever weaker, and he finally "breaks" when he resurrects Catelyn from the river. Catelyn is now the second attempt at Lightbringer, which will break when killing a lion, which would have to be Jaime Lannister. He is on his way to her and I speculate that she will kill him but somewhere along the line realise that he has changed, and therefore resurrect him. She herself will have grown weaker, and much like Beric break herself. Now Jaime is the third attempt, which will be completed by the killing of a loved one (Nissa Nissa) and the joining of souls into Lightbringer. I guess that this will be Brienne, but it could also be Cersei (which would also fulfill the prophecy of the valonquar).



I also think that there is a play with words and names here, which is relevant. The first attempt is made with the Lightning lord (in the name of the Lord of Light), the second attempt becomes Lady Stoneheart. From that stone(heart) a dragon is woken, dragon meaning Targaryen as I think Jaime is the son af Aerys and Joanna. Somone has also pointed out that the valyrian words for lord of light and golden hand are very similar, and suggested that there has been a mistranslation, which I find quite interesting. I couldn´t find the Words for Lightbringer, but they may also be quite similar to goldenhand (which Jaime thinks about being called in the future).



From here on it´s even more speculation, but i guess that at least one more dragon has to be woken from stone, and that of course puts Jon Snow (who could very well be the PTWP) to mind. I´m seeing some kind of scenario (which I don´t have time to explain in-depth) where Jons body is laying in the ice cells (his soul in Ghost) and Melisandre is failing at every attempt at resurrecting him, when Thoros and Jaime shows up (after Jaime putting the puzzle of Jons heritage together after recognizing Lem to be Richard Lonmouth, another theory I quite like). Thoros succeds in resurrecting Jon, who is the only other person besides Jaime who has dreamt of wielding a flaming sword ("The flames will burn as long as you live", as Jaime is told in his dream). At some time Daenerys shows up, and the remaining dragons can have their riders (it seems like the colouring of Viserion was made for Jaime), and the fight against the others may commence.



I don´t know, maybe I got a bit carried away, and i have to leave the computer now, but what do you Think?


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I´ve been reading these forums for a couple of years and thought it was time to post a theory of my own (even though i´ve borrowed quite a lot from other theories).

The theory is basically that Thoros of Myr will fulfill the prophecy of Azor Ahai being reborn and lead the fight against the others, and that by resurrecting people he is in the process of forging Lightbringer, which vill eventually be Jaime Lannister with the ability to set his sword on fire. It seems to me to be quite like GRRM to have AA right under our noses from the first book, and for him to be a warrior priest in service of R´hollor is only logical. We will never get a POV from Thoros, and we will never get any real confirmation of the existence of R´hollor, we will only see Thoros fulfilling the prophecy in his own way.

What we know of the prophecy is that when the red star bleeds, AA will be reborn amidst salt and smoke to wake dragons out of stone. Of course, Thoros is spiritually very much reborn when the red comet is in the sky. We don´t know the exact circumstances, but it is probably when he resurrects Beric for the first time. Beric describes this:

"Sometimes I think I was born on the bloody grass in that grove of ash, with the taste of fire in my mouth and a hole in my chest. Are you my mother, Thoros?"

It seems to me like Thoros as well is born again at this moment, and that the conditions of salt and smoke could well be met. I´ll come back to the part about waking dragons out of stone. (This theory of course assumes that the prophecies of AA and TPTWP are separate and regard different persons. I don´t think Thoros was born from the line of Aerys and Rhaella.)

Thoros does not yet realise that he is fulfilling the prophecy, nor that he is in the process of forging Lightbringer (which is a person rather than a sword). By resurrecting Beric he makes his first attempt, which ends when it is "tempered in water". Beric describes that he is growing ever weaker, and he finally "breaks" when he resurrects Catelyn from the river. Catelyn is now the second attempt at Lightbringer, which will break when killing a lion, which would have to be Jaime Lannister. He is on his way to her and I speculate that she will kill him but somewhere along the line realise that he has changed, and therefore resurrect him. She herself will have grown weaker, and much like Beric break herself. Now Jaime is the third attempt, which will be completed by the killing of a loved one (Nissa Nissa) and the joining of souls into Lightbringer. I guess that this will be Brienne, but it could also be Cersei (which would also fulfill the prophecy of the valonquar).

I also think that there is a play with words and names here, which is relevant. The first attempt is made with the Lightning lord (in the name of the Lord of Light), the second attempt becomes Lady Stoneheart. From that stone(heart) a dragon is woken, dragon meaning Targaryen as I think Jaime is the son af Aerys and Joanna. Somone has also pointed out that the valyrian words for lord of light and golden hand are very similar, and suggested that there has been a mistranslation, which I find quite interesting. I couldn´t find the Words for Lightbringer, but they may also be quite similar to goldenhand (which Jaime thinks about being called in the future).

From here on it´s even more speculation, but i guess that at least one more dragon has to be woken from stone, and that of course puts Jon Snow (who could very well be the PTWP) to mind. I´m seeing some kind of scenario (which I don´t have time to explain in-depth) where Jons body is laying in the ice cells (his soul in Ghost) and Melisandre is failing at every attempt at resurrecting him, when Thoros and Jaime shows up (after Jaime putting the puzzle of Jons heritage together after recognizing Lem to be Richard Lonmouth, another theory I quite like). Thoros succeds in resurrecting Jon, who is the only other person besides Jaime who has dreamt of wielding a flaming sword ("The flames will burn as long as you live", as Jaime is told in his dream). At some time Daenerys shows up, and the remaining dragons can have their riders (it seems like the colouring of Viserion was made for Jaime), and the fight against the others may commence.

I don´t know, maybe I got a bit carried away, and i have to leave the computer now, but what do you Think?

Green and Gold would match his Lannister features though.
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Thank you all for the input!



Primalsplit, like Poppa Chase said, I mean born again in a spiritual sense, like having an epiphony and changing as a person in a fundamental way.



Lost Melnibonean, I liked reading your theory and we seem to come to the same conclusion that Jaime will be the next one to be resurrected, but I don´t really think it will be because of any divine intervention. I don´t think that the existence of any gods or divine forces will be confirmed in the books, however the power of magic and prophecy is indesputable.



However, I really like your idea that Bloodraven is prepairing (through the weirwoodstump dream) Jaime to raise Jon up as Rhaegars heir and king. There is a Jaimechapter that ends with him declairing Criston Cole, the kingmaker, as one of the both best and worst kingsguard members (if I´m remembering it right). The chapter ends with this as if it has some greater importance, and I think it is because Jaime will be just that: the best and the worst, and a kingmaker. I´ve also thought that Jaime has both the knowledge and ability to figure out Jons parentage, if given the right clues.



Poppa Chase, I guess Rhaegals colours could match Jaimes too, but as I see Jon as the other dragonrider it seems more fitting that he should ride the dragon named after his father (and Jaime could ride one named after one of his halfbrothers).


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Thank you all for the input!

Primalsplit, like Poppa Chase said, I mean born again in a spiritual sense, like having an epiphony and changing as a person in a fundamental way.

Lost Melnibonean, I liked reading your theory and we seem to come to the same conclusion that Jaime will be the next one to be resurrected, but I don´t really think it will be because of any divine intervention. I don´t think that the existence of any gods or divine forces will be confirmed in the books, however the power of magic and prophecy is indesputable.

However, I really like your idea that Bloodraven is prepairing (through the weirwoodstump dream) Jaime to raise Jon up as Rhaegars heir and king. There is a Jaimechapter that ends with him declairing Criston Cole, the kingmaker, as one of the both best and worst kingsguard members (if I´m remembering it right). The chapter ends with this as if it has some greater importance, and I think it is because Jaime will be just that: the best and the worst, and a kingmaker. I´ve also thought that Jaime has both the knowledge and ability to figure out Jons parentage, if given the right clues.

Poppa Chase, I guess Rhaegals colours could match Jaimes too, but as I see Jon as the other dragonrider it seems more fitting that he should ride the dragon named after his father (and Jaime could ride one named after one of his halfbrothers).

Actually I think Jaime will mistakenly cause Aegon to be crowned.
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Good job I enjoy reading good theories latelythere has not been many good threads. I strongly believe it will be Jamie who goes to find jon an proclaim him his King . I don't think Jamie is a Targ tho but I like ur idea of thoros being aar . It's been too long we need winds of winter .

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Aww, this kind of foreshadows that Stannis and Aegon and Danneee won't make the final cut. And it nudges Shireen out of the limelight too. I'm always hopeful that Shireen's sacrificial death can get in on the action somehow, as part of the lightbringer forging. That'd add to the fun. A princess is near and dear to the hearts of the people, metaphorically beloved by all (in lieu of just being loved by AAR), and this one has some "stone" flesh to offer for the awakening of something from stone. So what if she's not as much of a showpiece as the prophets envisioned Nissa? She's got heart! Take that! Oh well, we don't always get what we want, and one has to come to terms with that. Maybe.... uhhhhg, maybe she'll live. Fine.



Also, for Jaime, if the spark of life can animate a corpse why wouldn't it also be able to animate a golden hand? So maybe that'll make Jaime a good swordsman again when the gold hand comes to life. And he'd be difficult to disarm after that, unless you cut off his arm that is.



I think you can get a 2 for 1 special from Jaime as a Kingmaker: his efforts vs. Cersei could result in Aegon getting the crown as an unwanted consequence, and then Jon is the guy he actually chooses to back after the saving of the world heroics have shown who the real king is. Uh, it'd be quaint too if Jon and Jaime and Danneee are all just outcasts in the snow when the story ends, so Jaime naming Jon the real king would be but a hollow proclamation that only means something to those within hearing distance. Because is there really time to travel to king's landing to kill the queen and then travel back to fight the Others with the lightbringer you got from killing the queen, and then save the world from the Others and then march on KL with Jon to crown him king? In 2 books?



Thoros does stand out as a huge statistical outlier in the world of magic, the way he up and resurrected folks without even meaning to. Maybe he's the Matrix Anomaly from which salvation springs, and we have to shepherd the divine spark he produced into the proper savior figure to maximize the benefits of having this gift from the gods of something that can't be dominated by death. I don't know if that makes Thoros the hero reborn. He might be more like the operator of the bellows on this forge.


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The Mother of the Others, I completely forgot about Shireen. She fits perfectly into the "out of stone"-part of resurrecting Jon, thank you for pointing it out. I agree that there is a lot that has to happen in just two books, but that is a problem either way (I wouldn´t be surprised if there will be more than two books). Anyway, it doesn´t have to be Cersei who is Nissa Nissa, it could very well be Brienne, and that saves Jaime a trip to Kings Landing :cool4:. I kind of like your idea of them being outcasts in the snow when the story ends, though.



About Thoros being the operator on the bellows, that is of course a possibility that makes sense as well. However, it seems to me that what he is doing is really quite astonishing, and he sort of deserves a bigger part to play. I´m thinking though, that he won´t realise he´s fulfilling the prophecy of AAR until afterwards, or perhaps not at all.


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Kushy green Dreams, I don´t think it has to guarantee Tommen´s head on a spike, especially since Tommens time left sadly is limited, as he will be shrouded in veils before the valonquar wraps his hands around Cerseis pale whit throat.


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Aww, this kind of foreshadows that Stannis and Aegon and Danneee won't make the final cut. And it nudges Shireen out of the limelight too. I'm always hopeful that Shireen's sacrificial death can get in on the action somehow, as part of the lightbringer forging. That'd add to the fun. A princess is near and dear to the hearts of the people, metaphorically beloved by all (in lieu of just being loved by AAR), and this one has some "stone" flesh to offer for the awakening of something from stone. So what if she's not as much of a showpiece as the prophets envisioned Nissa? She's got heart! Take that! Oh well, we don't always get what we want, and one has to come to terms with that. Maybe.... uhhhhg, maybe she'll live. Fine.

I think Shireen will be saved from being sacrificed if there will be such a plan to sacrifice her. She will hatch just like Egg in Whitewalls. She will grow into a willful child from the shy and frightened girl she is. Aemon hoped that Stannis might be a dragon because of his Targ blood but he was probably wrong in that too. It is his daughter who will be a dragon as in the case of Targaryens. I always liken Shireen (with her half face distorted by the disease) to Tehanu.

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I also came to the conclusion that thoros/beric both had the power of lightbringer. I think Jon is AA and cat is nissa nissa though. Jon (dragon) wakeing (lightbringer) stone ( lady stoneheart).



i also like this forshadowing of it.


The Maiden lay athwart the Warrior, her arms widespread as if to embrace him. The Mother seemed almost to shudder as the flames came licking up her face. A longsword had been thrust through her heart, and its leather grip was alive with flame. The Father was on the bottom, the first to fall. Davos watched the hand of the Stranger writhe and curl as the fingers blackened and fell away one by one, reduced to so much glowing charcoal.



heres a link to the theory if anyone wants to read it.


http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/99216-lightbringernissa-nissa-theory/


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I really like some parts of your theory. I'm convinced that Jaime is AA and that he will kill Cersei or Brienne with Oathkeeper in order to fulfil the prophecy.



The thing that I dont buy is that Jaime is Aerys son. I've been thinking about it for while after that Jaime POV where he meets his mother in a dream and she says that Tywin always wanted his son to be a great knight and his daugther to be a Queen. Jaime then tells her that he is a knight and Cersei is a Queen, after that his mother starts to cry and go away. I couldnt find any explanation for that scene so far.

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