Poppa Chase Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Maester Aemon told Sam this phrase. So it is somewhat important to the overall theme. Being listed in the same vain as The Prince that Was Promised and Glass candles being lit. Both of which are incredible and unusual things.So my wonder here is what exactly is there to know about Sarella that is on that same level of importance? He couldn't simply be saying Alerras is not who he says he is. What purpose would that serve? If anything he should have warned him of Pate if it was to be serving important. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makrell Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 New grand maester sometime? i dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Perhaps Jaqen/pate will kill and steal Sarella's identity, and since Sam didn't know Pate beforehand he can't notice any change, but knowing Sarella he could perhaps notice a change. Admittedly I don't think this is a very strong theory but it is about all I can come up with. I'm inclined to think we must be looking at it all wrong and it has nothing to do with Sarella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I believe that Aegon is Aemon's sphinx--a chimera just like the manticore noted with the griffin and the dragon. The classical Greek sphinx would not allow anyone to pass unless he could solve the riddle posed by the sphinx. But in this case the sphinx--Aegon--is the riddle, being a Blackfyre and perhaps a Brightflame and a Bloodstar too. And if Daenerys doesn't guess the riddle Aegon will destroy her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Like Davos Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Maester Aemon told Sam this phrase. So it is somewhat important to the overall theme. Being listed in the same vain as The Prince that Was Promised and Glass candles being lit. Both of which are incredible and unusual things.So my wonder here is what exactly is there to know about Sarella that is on that same level of importance? He couldn't simply be saying Alerras is not who he says he is. What purpose would that serve? If anything he should have warned him of Pate if it was to be serving important.Any thoughts? I've wondered how Maester Aemon even knew about Alleras to name him/her. I do believe that Alleras is really Sarella but i do not think that is who the Maester was referring to. That would be a really random bit of knowledge to have. He gets a letter telling him about a new novice? He and Doran are pen pals? Seems more likely he talking about something that happened further in the past than in the time since Alleras showed up at the Citadel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 i personally think the Sphynx is all about warging- and the afterlife. The mind of a human- the body of an animal- or three. The Sphynx therefore, is the riddle due to the challenge of identity. Where Sarella fits in, I have no idea, but it's possible Sarella /Alleras has found ways to influence animals, or has at least studied it, or simply told someone, thus earning Alleras the nickname, whether earned or not. it may hint at a belief in immortality through reincarnation, or a shamanistic ability to warg animals, or the ability to become an animal after death- thus potentially achieving immortality. As such the Citadel IMO, studied such arts in the past, and fully utilised talking ravens. i would go so far as to suggest the Citadel followed the Old Gods, but as the influence of the Seven spread, prevailing attitudes changed. This art was treated with grave suspicion as the Seven had less tolerance for such things in their human-centred theology of 7 human deities as opposed to older, presumably more natural, gods. The Sphynx statues remained outside the citadel, but the study of warging was increasingly outlawed and the attitude to conquering Dragon-riders, hostile due to the prevailing dominance of the faith of Seven in the south. Still, in theory, Targaryans' have the same gift- to bend a Dragon to it's will, even if it isn't straight warging, it's a form of mind-control, or a means of extending your will to something beyond your body. A Targaryan of yore was a master of a dragon. together they operated with the power of a dragon and the wits of a human, but the same power may have extended to warging more than Dragons- in effect, a Targaryan was a sphynx, and if there were no Dragons around, they could use the same skills on....dare i say? Cats? Highly speculative, but many, if not all religions prior to Christianity feature human / animal combinations, and it's not beyond the realms of possibility Aemon was wondering where his Targaryan ancestors were. If you can escape your body mentally and enter that of an animal, the potential to live for ever may be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I actually don´t think Sarella is the riddle herself.. but rather a clever hint of the true riddle It had been Lazy Leo who dubbed Alleras “the Sphinx.” A sphinx is a bit of this, a bit of that: a human face, the body of a lion, the wings of a hawk. He spoke of dreams and never named the dreamer, of a glass candle that could not be lit and eggs that would not hatch. He said the sphinx was the riddle, not the riddler, whatever that meant. He asked Sam to read for him from a book by Septon Barth, whose writings had been burned during the reign of Baelor the Blessed. Once he woke up weeping. “The dragon must have three heads,” The riddle i think, is the identity of the three headed dragon. There is someone who has three identities of sort. Someone that is part this and part that.Jon is a Snow, a Stark, and a Targaryen.. unless i am wrong and Sarella has some part to play in the fullfilment of the prophecy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fourth Head Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 personally, I don't think limiting it to Dragons is necessary - there are the Wildling Wargs and the Starks to consider, and i'm under the impression those Sphynxes from the citadel pre-date the arrival of the Targaryans, but I could be wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Personally I think it's just a hint to the reader that Sarella is Alleras.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Per the ASOIAF Wiki... Sphinxes also are often found in female-male pairs. There are also Valyrian Sphinxes which are the body of an animal (probably a dragon) and a head of human. But Aemon did not specify that in his quote. Side note: The Red Keep is flanked by Valyrian Sphinxes. Tyrion and Illyrio Mopatis come across a single female Valyrian Sphinx (the male had been taken by the Dothraki). Tyrion also mentions to Brown Ben Plumm that most of the stories he heard about dragons are fodder for fools - one of which is dragons riddling with sphinxes. - clever choice of words by GRRM. Wild goose chase or are we supposed to start piecing this together with Aemon's qoute? How does this all tie back to Aemon's quote? Not sure...but most likely Sarella & Alleras are one in the same...we're supposed to pay close attention to Sarella/Alleras/Sphinx...and it appears that this person will be intertwined with Sam somehow. It's stated that the Sphinx is the Riddle not the Riddler...nor does say it's the answer...just the Riddle. I think I confused myself while typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 The medium is the message. Look at what people are, not what people say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Like Davos Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Personally I think it's just a hint to the reader that Sarella is Alleras.. There are so many ways that same hint could have been given, but why choose Aemon to deliver it? Again, i don't think he would even know Alleras/Sarella was in Oldtown. To Aemon atleast this must have a different meaning, What that is i have no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynned Lannistark Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I've wondered how Maester Aemon even knew about Alleras to name him/her. I do believe that Alleras is really Sarella but i do not think that is who the Maester was referring to. Had the same concern. It is possible that he was in on some of the conspiracies, but I wasn't under the impression Sarella is a conspiracy. Seems like she made her own decision to go and study in Oldtown. Personally I think it's just a hint to the reader that Sarella is Alleras.. That is also what I had in mind. Overall I tend to accept the Sarella/Alleras theory ever since I read it. However, I am not so certain this is actually a major plot twist. It might just be a small unimportant detail that the careful reader would notice. Regardless, Aemon's comment may related to something completely different and is phrased that way to give a hint to the reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubicz Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Aemon was not talking about Sarella/Alleras. Alleras is called a sphinx because she's mixed race. It's a racial slur. Aemon was talking about prophecy. Targaryen prophecy. The prince that was Promised.The only sphinx mentioned in the series that relates to Targaryens/Dragons comes in a tyrion chapter: "The queen’s dragons were fond of you, were they not?” That seemed to amuse the sellsword. “Who told you that?” “No one. Most of the stories you hear about dragons are fodder for fools. Talking dragons, dragons hoarding gold and gems, dragons with four legs and bellies big as elephants, dragons riddling with sphinxes … nonsense, all of it. But there are truths in the old books as well. Not only do I know that the queen’s dragons took to you, but I know why.” Seems to me that TPTWP prophecy was passed down to a Targaryen ancestor from a sphinx- be it an actual talking hybrid animal, or an inscription somewhere on a statue. Whatever it is, Aemon was trying to warn against puzzling out the message- The Messenger was the puzzle that needed to be solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Sarella basically admits that Marwyn was watching Aemon with his glass candles, but I'm not sure why he would mention the term "sphinx"Maybe the riddle is the prophecy. A little bit from Valyrian. A little bit from Dothraki. A little bit from First Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I also believed it was alleras first but after reading ADWD where Tyrion sees a sphinx which is dragon body with a female head reffering to a queen and inquires about the king missing and learns that he has been dragged to Vaes Dothrak and remain there . so I think Aemon actually mentions that valyrian shinx which can be both male and female like their dragons .and reffering to danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Dp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stringer Bill Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Since watching the Dornish master plan videos I've actually thought she is a crumb to Marwyn and his whole plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Sarella isn't the only sphinx in the books... There are normal sphinxes (half lion, half human) There are valyrian sphinxes (half dragon, half human) The implication is likely that PTWP is a sphinx of some sort if you go by their lineage. Maybe Tyrion Lion/dragon (no he is not Aerys' son) and "HALFMAN" Maybe Arya/Sansa/Bran/Rickon dragon/wolf/fish Maybe Jon dragon/wolf etc. etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civility Reigns Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Aemon's words themselves are a riddle. Therefore, this riddle must be the sphinx. Very clever, Aemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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