Atlas of Ice and Fire: The Known World (Some labels added)

[Stannis's Lawyer]

Known World, 298 AL, with nations

URL: http://imgur.com/DbMjssr

Labels:

1. Red: Seven Kingdoms

2. Light blue north of the Seven Kingdoms: Wildlings

3. Green north of the wildlings: Giants

4. Light brown, north of the giants: Thenn

5. Indigo, around the Frozen Shore: Frozen Shore people

6. Purple around Braavos: Braavos

7. Yellow: Pentos

8. Light green south of Pentos: Myr

9. Blue around the Stepstones: Tyrosh

10. Light purple south of the Disputed Lands: Lys

11. Brown east of Braavos: Lorath

12. Dark brown east of Lorath: Norvos

13. Green east of Norvos: Qohor

14. Green east of the Disputed Lands: Volantis

15. Light orange: Dothraki Sea

16. Light blue around the Sarne Delta: Saath

17. Brown north of Valyria: Mantarys

18. Green southeast of Mantarys: Elyria

19. Purple east of Elyria: Tolos

20. Blue around the lower Skahazadhan: Meereen

21. Brown south of Meereen: Yunkai

22. Pink around the Worm: Astapor

23. Brown south of Astapor: New Ghis

24. Sandy color in the Summer Islands: Summer Islands

25. Dark brown in Naath: Naath

26. Brown in the Basilisk Islands: Basilisk Islands

27. Light green north of the Dothraki Sea: Kingdoms of the Ifeqevron

28. Green in Ibben and environs: Ibben

29. Light grey: Jhogwin

30. Dark grey: Lhazar

31. Black: Qarth

32. Purple in Great Moraq: Faros

33. Indigo in Great Moraq: Port Moraq

34. Indigo south of Jhogwin: Kayakayanaya

35. Light yellow south of Kayakayanaya: Shamyriana

36. Purple south of Shamyriana: Bayasabhad

37. Pink east of Qarth: Asabhad

38. Light blue: Yi Ti

39. Light green: Jogos Nhai

40. Orange: Asshai

41. Dark pink around the Hidden Sea: City of the Winged Men

42. Brown around the Hidden Sea: Carcosa

43. Light blue dot: K'dath

44. Green dot: Bonetown

44. Light blue east of the Jogos Nhai: N'ghai

Known World, 20,000 BAL

URL: http://i.imgur.com/i9lqG4C.png

Differences:

1. Valyria is still a peninsula.

2. Westeros and Essos are connected.

3. The Great Sand Sea and the Shrinking Sea are still seas.

Known World, 300 BAL

URL: http://i.imgur.com/xXRPsll.png

Labels:

1. Blue: The North

2. Green: Stormlands

3. Yellow: Vale of Arryn

4. Dark Grey: Iron Islands

5. Dark pink: Westerlands

6. Dark orange: The Reach

7. Dark brown: Dorne

8. Light blue north of the North: Wildlings

9. Green north of the wildlings: Giants

10. Light brown, north of the giants: Thenn

11. Indigo, around the Frozen Shore: Frozen Shore people

12. Red: Valyria

13. Light orange: Dothraki Triangle

14. Sandy color in the Summer Islands: Summer Islands

15. Dark brown in Naath: Naath

16. Brown in the Basilisk Islands: Basilisk Islands

17. Light green north of the Dothraki Triangle: Kingdoms of the Ifeqevron

18. Green in Ibben and environs: Ibben

19. Light grey: Jhogwin

20. Dark grey: Lhazar

21. Black: Qarth

22. Purple in Great Moraq: Faros

23. Indigo in Great Moraq: Port Moraq

24. Pink: Hyrkoon

25. Light blue: Yi Ti

26. Light green: Jogos Nhai

27. Orange: Asshai

28. Dark pink around the Hidden Sea: City of the Winged Men

29. Brown around the Hidden Sea: Carcosa

30. Light blue dot: K'dath

31. Green dot: Bonetown

Forgot about N'ghai.

4. Extent of Slavery: http://i.imgur.com/r85YjDH.png

[Stannis's Lawyer]

If you want to know what a specific color is for, ask me... I couldn't make all the labels....

[Stannis's Lawyer]

The blank spaces denote wasteland.

[Waters Gate]

How would you project this map on a globe surface?

[Stannis's Lawyer]

How would you project this map on a globe surface?

Errr.....

[aryagonnakill#2]

Pretty cool, I don't think the Lhazareen territory makes it to the coast tho. I believe Qarth controls all that.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

Pretty cool, I don't think the Lhazareen territory makes it to the coast tho. I believe Qarth controls all that.

The app says Port Yhos is the westernmost Qartheen settlement, and I don't think it made sense geographically for New Ghis to have that, so Lhazar filled the spot. It could of course be Ghiscari, or just wasteland.

[Waters Gate]

Let me explain

This is a world map on a flat square surface:

http://www.mapsofworld.com/images-mow/world-map.jpg

This is how it is projected on a more round surface

http://www.freeworldmaps.net/download/maps/political-world-map-big.gif

Note relative differences in size as you go north or south. for ex. North America looks wider on a square map projection than a more round one.

So is North America as wide as it is in the first map? Or is the 2nd more correct? Indeed the second is more correct. North America isn't as wide as a square map would make you believe. And say Africa around the sahara region is actually larger than the square map would suggest.

It's important for how you consider this map to be projected. The more so mind you that it is drawn from the perspective i guess of medieval like people. Medieval maps tended to quite wrong in proportions and relative distances and usually drawn on a square map or a flap map that had no consideration for the round shape of the world.

lets consider the size of the north on the Asoiaf map compared to the region that we would think is more aroudn the Equator, say Dorne. Are the relative distances and sizes for what regards the north correct, or is it so that the norht appears streatched out because its on a square map and actually would look less wide on a round map? I would think that relative distances for what concers Westeros and relative sizes would be roughly correct, meaning that North is as large as it appears to be on the Asoiaf map compared to Dorne. That means that if you would translate that then to a more correct round map, that actually the North must take up more surface area of the north, or cover more longitude's and timezone's than Dorne does relativly even if they would appear as wide in abolute distance.

My perception is that this map is drawn from the perception of medieval sailors from Westeros. relative distances in Westeros are fairly correct but the map is more distorted as you go towards Essos. Sailors probably measured Essos by sailing along the shores and making guesses of distances. Most probably though they have covered more of the north than the equater region, simply because they have traveled about the same absolute distances along the northern Essos coast and southern Essos coast, but the world is less wide in the north than it is along the equator, so the most eastern part of north essos on that map is likely a lot closer to the western shore of Wresteros than say Ashai is.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

New map. See on OP.

[Waters Gate]

Would you try to change the map projection to a round one that is more correct for a round world? I mean just give it a try. Because a flat map has to be wrong in relative distances and sizes at some point.

The logical conclusions from having a flat map is that its wrong at some points if you put it to a globe surface, and then you need to adjust it.

And either the people of Westeros know more of the known world along the artic circle and likely have less distance to travel along the north to "go around the world" than they have to go around the equator which is more likely where Asshai is, or one has to reshape the relative sizes of certain areas in Westeros and say Dorne is actually quite larger than it appeared to be and the north quite a bit smaller. And you cannot have it otherwise, is one of those eitherway, simply because a flat map MUST have errors in it. Because a globe is simply less wide along the poles than it is along the equator.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

Very true, but I lack the skills to change the map to a round one.

[Waters Gate]

Let me give a quick attempt at give a translation to a round world and give an impression of what i mean:

here is a flat map directly on the globe surface

http://users.telenet.be/Pieterv/rond.png

And here is the map distorted to be correct in terms of longitude's.

http://users.telenet.be/Pieterv/rond2.png

In the first map, you could notice that longitude's don't correspond correctly anymore. For ex "The north" is not really due north of Dorne here, actually more like north East. the same goes for Ashai relative to the northeastern part we know of Essos.

In the 2nd map, we don't have these longitude problems, but then we need to stretch otu stuff and things aroudn the equator get vastly bigger, depending on where you exactly put the equator. if i had pt the equator at dorne in the 2nd map, then Dorne would be rather hughe. And that would translate to actual distances in the world, The South would actually be really that much larger, and the north that much smaller.

The issue's of relative distances in the 2nd map are a bit difficult to solve. Likely the 1st map is actually more correct, but one has to put Westeros more in the center of that map so that "the north" is exactly due north of Dorne. One simply assumes that the map is drawn from the perspective of people from Westeros with relative distances around Westeros in mind. Only that means that longitude's in Essos have to move even furthe up, or with other words Ashai is far more west than it apears relative to the northeastern point we know of Essos, or on a more western longitude Likely Ashai is due south of Ibben where it would appear more to the East of it on current maps.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

IIRC, somebody proved that the equator was a few hundred miles south of the Summer Islands. Anyways, those maps are good :)

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Do you know for certain that Plantos is round? I mean it probably is, but do we actually know?

[Stannis's Lawyer]

Do you know for certain that Plantos is round? I mean it probably is, but do we actually know?

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1206/

[Waters Gate]

IIRC, somebody proved that the equator was a few hundred miles south of the Summer Islands. Anyways, those maps are good :)

Thats very interresting, i do want to see that thread. If so, then the 2nd map is fairly correct atleast for relative placement of the equator, and i will have edited the first picture with having posted this reply.

[Waters Gate]

here is my interpretation of how things are if put on a round world and centered around Westeros:

http://users.telenet.be/Pieterv/rond3.png

This way, the north is indeed north of dorne, and regardless of the fact that the world is wider as one goes more south, dorne is just as wide on this as it appears on its flat map. So is Essos, but we get a better perspective i think of how the northern coast of Essos translate's to it's souther coast. ive drawn a crude longitude on which both Ibben and Ashai could lie on that map.

For me it looks like more the "westerosi interpretation of things", well a flat map has to have errors, and i think the errors are more at the lesser known parts from an Westersi perspective. it would seem to me the product of navigators drawing the map as they sail along Essos it's coasts.

[Waters Gate]

Here is another possible interpretation. This is even more to how i think things might actually be, atleast with a rough drawing that has westeros a bit of center and the north maybe a bit too large:

http://users.telenet.be/Pieterv/rond4.png

Basicly compared to the previous map its considered that here the Westerosi have discovered more of the planets surface, however afcourse because the artic circle is less long than the equator they have discovered more of the north. Note the position on this interpretation of the northeastern part of Essos versus lonely light. th asoiaf map has been distorted so that ashai is more to the west of that northeastern part of Essos.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

Robert says the North is half of the Seven Kingdoms. In a flat map, it's about 2/5, and in a round map it would be about 1/3. I don't think Robert would call a third a half.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Water's Gate

Your mistake is to think that longitude exists in the Ice and Fire world. There is no need to try and calculate how many degrees of longitude the North covers compared to Dorne. All that matters is the number of miles that the North covers compared to Dorne.

The fact that this will translate into more degrees of longitude in the North, because of the curvature of the planet, is irrelevant, given that longitude is an artificial creation that is projected onto a map for purpose of navigation.

There is no indication that a system of longitude and latitude has been invented in Westeros. Therefore, it doesn't matter if the North would cover more degrees of longitude than Dorne.

The only real world implication is that a place on the North's west coast that appears to be directly North of Dorne, may in fact be located to the Northwest of Dorne instead. But the exact longitudinal implications are irrelevant from a Westerosi point of view.