Dornish Debates iii: Of Kings and Courts

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Jeeze, no one liked my beautiful drawing? :crying:

R+E had a complicated relationship too though, didn't they? Maybe this is why Oberyn never wanted to marry, looking at his siblings and how those panned out.

R+E is more complicated than it looks like. Moon Tea is eefective to prevent pregnancies, but her health could have been a factor on her not being able to take it. Look how a dose affected Lysa, who was healthy. So, when Rhaegar is told Elia can't have more kids, in a way, he's been told he can't bed Elia again. Ever.

(and JonCon had a sudden boner)

what Drawgin?? I have headache , cant think. Me dumb.

[Chebyshov]

R+E is more complicated than it looks like. Moon Tea is eefective to prevent pregnancies, but her health could have been a factor on her not being able to take it. Look how a dose affected Lysa, who was healthy. So, when Rhaegar is told Elia can't have more kids, in a way, he's been told he can't bed Elia again. Ever.

(and JonCon had a sudden boner)

what Drawgin?? I have headache , cant think. Me dumb.

Julia requested Oberyn/Ellaria doing a gender-bent Han Solo/Leia cosplay: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/118253-dornish-debates-iii-of-kings-and-courts/?p=6307786

It's my best work. Oberyn in no way has a tilde for a mouth.

indeed, definitely sheds some light on Doran and Mellario's relationship. I do wonder about her often. Would love to meet her at some points in the books (doubt it'll happen, though).

Queue more SL theorists.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Julia requested Oberyn/Ellaria doing a gender-bent Han Solo/Leia cosplay: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/118253-dornish-debates-iii-of-kings-and-courts/?p=6307786

It's my best work. Oberyn in no way has a tilde for a mouth.

Adorable!

[SeanF]

That might have been because the Red Keep and buildings attached to it were kind of full, whereas at Winterfell (and any other castle) there would have been room enough for such an arrangement.

Cersei and Robert had separated rooms as well (though I doubt anyone will wonder why). And little Rhaenys went to hide under Rhaegar's bed, suggesting that Elia had her own rooms as well..

So it seems to be a common thing, to me. Wasn't it that way in real life history as well?

In most royal palaces, the King and Queen have separate bedchambers.

Once Lords decided they needed their own private rooms, it would have become common for each family member to have their own bedchamber.

[Minstral]

So has there been an attempt to draw a parallel between the North's King Beyond the Wall and the seemingly much more recent Vulture King? I can't truly tell (I may have missed it), but I got that impression for a second.

[Dornish Vinegar]

Queue more SL theorists.

Pretty much :/

[Julia Martell]

But Septa Lemore is totally Dornish.

Am I the only one who thinks so?

[Chebyshov]

^The ones who think she's Ashara certainly agree ;)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

But Septa Lemore is totally Dornish.

Am I the only one who thinks so?

Nope.

Does anybody else imagine Duck and Egg hiding behind a bush to goggle at her? :lol:

Could be also the White Fawn. Remember she lived with a bunch of guys in a forest. Probably she didn't mind being seen naked either.

[Dornish Vinegar]

I always headcanon'd her as a Reachwoman!

A personal crackpot thought that crossed my mind once long ago and surfaced again just now was that she's Tyene's mother, but I've also heard the White Fawn idea before as JonCon said.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Here is the thread about Lemore being the White Fawn. Could be, could be not.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/111215-wenda-the-white-fawn-septa-lemore-and-the-toynes/

[Chebyshov]

Speaking of Daynes (not really), is Eddie going to meander back on down to Dorne? He's not with the LS crew, right?

[Dornish Vinegar]

I always headcanon'd her as a Reachwoman!

A personal crackpot thought that crossed my mind once long ago and surfaced again just now was that she's Tyene's mother, but I've also heard the White Fawn idea before as JonCon said.

And wouldn't you know, Septa Lemore is definitely not Tyene's mother! (Not that it needed to be proven.) From The Queenmaker:

Arianne had crossed the Mander once, when she had gone with three of the Sand Snakes to visit Tyene's mother.

But that's still an interesting lil tidbit. I guess Tyene's mother was a Reachwoman. And it's cool that there was enough of a relationship there between Tyene and her mother to go and visit, especially with two of her half sisters and her princess cousin. And that whoever her mother is is not ashamed, as a septa, to have a bastard.

[Baela of Pentos]

Speaking of Daynes (not really), is Eddie going to meander back on down to Dorne? He's not with the LS crew, right?

IIRC, little Ned split off from LS' BwB. Didn't sound like he has many men with him.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

He's probably back home.

[Archmaester Drew]

Great OP theory on the Vulture King! :cheers:

Yeah, there's got to be more to Darkstar than we've seen thus far -- and it's about time for another Vulture King! ;)

[Chebyshov]

Great OP theory on the Vulture King! :cheers:

Yeah, there's got to be more to Darkstar than we've seen thus far -- and it's about time for another Vulture King! ;)

He's probably back home.

Maybe Edric can help smoke out Darkstar the Vulture King! Get some Dayne vs. Dayne Cadet tension and all. Of course, there's a chance the Dornish might tacitly support another VK, especially depending on how much of a mess the DWD2.0 becomes.

[Hrafntýr]

Maybe Edric can help smoke out Darkstar the Vulture King! Get some Dayne vs. Dayne Cadet tension and all. Of course, there's a chance the Dornish might tacitly support another VK, especially depending on how much of a mess the DWD2.0 becomes.

Edric's relationship to Lord Beric (and the now defunct betrothal of Beric with Lady Allyria) might also be significant in terms of how things develop in the marches; didn't House Dondarrion ally with House Caron to defeat one of the past Vulture Kings?

It's possible that Edric is traveling with Anguy, also from the marches, since Anguy was also notably absent from our last view of LS's BwB.

You all definitely have me convinced that we're going to see a new Vulture King in the marches. Who else might be able to use such an uprising to his or her benefit?

[Julia Martell]

And wouldn't you know, Septa Lemore is definitely not Tyene's mother! (Not that it needed to be proven.) From The Queenmaker:

But that's still an interesting lil tidbit. I guess Tyene's mother was a Reachwoman. And it's cool that there was enough of a relationship there between Tyene and her mother to go and visit, especially with two of her half sisters and her princess cousin. And that whoever her mother is is not ashamed, as a septa, to have a bastard.

Well it's possible she's ashamed of having a bastard, but also a decent enough person not to be a jerk to her daughter because of it. Or maybe she was never into the celibacy thing, given that these Mother Houses seem to be a depot for surplus daughters, as well as those that once got too close to the traveling singers, or had smallpox and therefore don't deserve to be happy anymore (or something). Sticking your illegitimate daughters in these places seemed to have been a thing too, see Alayne Stone's backstory.

And, in this universe, it definitely matters WHO'S bastard you are. Being knocked up by a Prince is probably not in the same realm as being knocked up by the pig boy. And they would probably get a nice new jewel encrusted outfit for the Mother's statue out of it too.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

If Tyene's mother was one of such girls who had been raised by the Faith because her own family didn't want her (thus, she personally was given no choice on the matter), it would explain why she might have been supportive about Oberyn taking Tyene. That would effectively prevent Tyene from a life with the Faith, unless Tyene choose for a life as a Septa. And such choices are usually best made at a somewhat later age, not when you are a two or three year old child, for example.