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Tywin was not that bad of a father to Tyrion.


Xenharmonic

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Greetings.
I'd like to put across the idea that Tywin was not that bad of a father to Tyrion.

Firstly, Tywin let Tyrion have all the best food, drink, accomodations, and he kept him safe.
Tywin never (or very seldom) beat Tyrion. If he wanted to, he could have removed Tyrion from his life by organising for him to have an "accident" at a young age.

Instead, Tywin chose to nurture him and let him spend gold on frivolous things such as whores— he also made sure Tyrion received a first class education.

Sure, he may have taught him a "sharp lesson" with Tysha, but that must have been much more terrible for Tysha than Tyrion. Besides, if we are being perfectly fair, Tyrion should have known better as he would have been lectured at length by Tywin on the importance of political marriages.

We should remember that Tywin had seen the consequences of political failure firsthand with his father Tytos, and that his harsh treatment of Tyrion was intending to try and prevent those kind of things from happening to his house again.

For Tyrion's excellent service as hand, Tywin rewards him with Sansa as wife— something that many other houses (including the Boltons and Tyrells) have wanted for a long time, seeing as Sansa is one of the few remaining claimants to Winterfell.

Finally, he may have planned for Tyrion to take the black even though it seemed incredibly likely to outside observers that Tyrion poisoned Joffrey, his beloved grandson.
Even if Tywin did suspect that Tyrion was innocent, to the outside observers his guilt seemed almost certain, so Tywin trying to pardon Tyrion may have created massive political uproar.

I am not saying that Tywin is a stand up guy or a perfect father, but though he did his son mentally scarred, in many ways he looked after Tyrion very well.

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Negative things we see Tywin do to Tyrion :


- criticizing him for making himself ridiculous performing acrobatics


- denying him the right to visit the free cities like he wanted, threatening to disinherit him if he did


- making him believe his loving wife is a whore


- ...watch guards rape her


- ...rape her himself


- starting a war at a time Tyrion was held hostage by his enemies family and likely to be killed for that (taking the pretext of Tyrion having been kidnapped, but with very little chance to free him ; it's not like Tyrion had a chance to be prisoner in the villages he asked the Mountain to raze)


- pututing him in first line with unreliable savages in the Green Fork battle


- sending him to the snake pit that was KL (while it may also be seen as a positive thing to name him temporary Hand, it was also a big risk for his life)


- forbidding him to take a whore with him to King's Landing, while Tyrion was an unmarried adult


- mostly ignoring his contribution in saving the city while many others were granted titles or other rewards for their smaller contributions


- disinheriting him


- making him marry the daughter of a traitor (was clearly worse for her, but still) also putting him at risk to be killed by the jealous Joffrey


- allowing a joke of a trial to take place to get Tyrion condemned for Joffrey's death (while Tywin, supposed to be more intelligent than Cersei shouldn't have believed Tyrion so stupid)


- (probably) convincing a whore his son loved to testimony against him, adding unecessary humiliation to all that he suffered




Positive things :


- not killing him at birth


- giving him the honorable charge of the cisterns and drains of Casterly rock


- letting him live in opulence some dozen years



I see a bit more elements for him being a bad father to Tyrion (and someone trying to get him killed or make him suffer as much possible globally) than elements to describe him as a good one.


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Negative things we see Tywin do to Tyrion :

- criticizing him for making himself ridiculous performing acrobatics

- denying him the right to visit the free cities like he wanted, threatening to disinherit him if he did

- making him believe his loving wife is a whore

- ...watch guards rape her

- ...rape her himself

- starting a war at a time Tyrion was held hostage by his enemies family and likely to be killed for that (taking the pretext of Tyrion having been kidnapped, but with very little chance to free him ; it's not like Tyrion had a chance to be prisoner in the villages he asked the Mountain to raze)

- pututing him in first line with unreliable savages in the Two Forks battle

- sending him to the snake pit that is KL (while it may also be seen as a positive thing to name him temporary Hand, it was also a big risk for his life)

- forbidding him to take a whore with him to King's Landing, while Tyrion was an unmarried adult

- mostly ignoring his contribution in saving the city while many others were granted titles or other rewards for their smaller contributions

- disinheriting him

- making him marry the daughter of a traitor (was clearly worse for her, but still) also putting him at risk to be killed by the jealous Joffrey

- allowing a joke of a trial to take place to get Tyrion condemned for Joffrey's death (while Tywin, supposed to be more intelligent than Cersei shouldn't have believed Tyrion so stupid)

- (probably) convincing a whore his son loved to testimony against him, adding unecessary humiliation to all that he suffered

Positive things :

- not killing him at birth

- giving him the honorable charge of the cisterns and drains of Casterly rock

- letting him live in opulence some dozen years

I see a bit more elements for him being a bad father to Tyrion (and someone trying to get him killed or make him suffer as much possible globally) than elements to describe him as a good one.

Firstly, the temporary handship was indeed a positive thing as it allowed Tyrion to prove himself worthy of power and further his position.

As to the danger, many of Tywin's other beloved relatives were in KL and he made no move to extract them.

Secondly, the trial was only a joke to Tyrion.

Littlefinger framed him so cleverly that to the outside observers, his guilt seemed certain.

If Tywin proclaimed Tyrion innocent he would be accused of enormous bias and it would have created political uproar.

Finally, for his efforts as temporary hand Tywin does indeed reward him— he grants him Sansa as wife, something that many other houses (including the Boltons and Tyrells) have badly wanted for a long time, since she is one of the few remaining claimants to Winterfell.

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By modern standards he'd be a poor father by Westerosi standards he was probably not that bad. Ned Stark is more than likely an exception rather than the rule when it comes to how Lords bring up their children.



From the books we first see Tyrion having free reign to do what he wants. His father funds his lavish lifestyle were he gets to travel around Westeros drinking and whoring and brandishing that Lannister Gold when ever his mouth gets him into trouble.



We also see his father trust him by giving him a command position in the battle of the Green Fork,making him acting Hand and then a position on the Small Council.



He also tried to arrange a marriage between him and Lyssa Tully and eventually Sansa Stark. That is at least two of the most powerful families in the realm that Tywin has tried to partner him with.


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I agree it was far, far, far, far more terrible for poor Tysha than anyone, and it's part of the reason Tyrion is so broken now knowing that; how can he ever be kind again when he helped do what is arguably the worst crime and torture of the series.



In terms of teaching Tyrion what he needs to know to survive and thrive in this world...



Tyrion is one of the best players of the game around, and he did give Tyrion Sansa.



Tywin is quite a bastard in many ways



But in terms of this world, I agree he was not the terrible father it's easy to see him as


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Even forgetting Tysha's story and other small humiliations, and considering he named him temporary Hand in his son interest, what I see from Tywin are repeated attempts to get his son killed, if he doesn't want to have blood on his own hands ; probably because it's the easiest way to guarantee that the dwarf won't inherit the Rock, polluting Lannisters genetics (or perhaps because he has doubts about being Tyrion's true father).



He starts the war against the Tully at a time Lannisters believe Tyrion their prisoner, and in a way that is very likely to get him killed in reprisal.


He admits that the unit he places Tyrion in, at the Green Fork wasn't supposed to resist but to rout. And he doesn't seem to have given anyone the charge to defend his son during this retreat.


Offering him Sansa in marriage, mean sending Tyrion to lead a province where everyone hate Lannisters where he is very likely to face a revolt and be killed too, and also strengthens the hate Joffrey has for his uncle, which can mean Tyrion's death even before.


He clearly doesn't try to give Tyrion a balanced trial, denying him the right to question witnesses, giving him very little time to prepare his defense, etc...


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Good points Leonardo.

I would just like to add that to Tysha it was indeed terrible, but nowhere near as bad as being killed out of hand or starving because the raiders burned your fields.

Eh is it really?

What was done to Tysha feels very similar to Theon's castration imo; it is irreparable damage.

I would say it's definitely worse than starving in terms of torment or a death by stabbing, though those are up there. That's how cruel it was to inflict that on anyone, especially with the knowledge some of that was due to Tywin's own experience with his (effective)step mother.

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I would just like to add that to Tysha it was indeed terrible, but nowhere near as bad as being killed out of hand or starving because the raiders burned your fields.

It was awful, but had Cersei ran off at 13 and married a pig farmer that pig farmer would be a dead man after being tortured. This was not Tywin singling out his son.

Brandon Stark wanted to kill Rhaegar when he heard that his teenage sister had ran off with him.

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Eh is it really?

What was done to Tysha feels very similar to Theon's castration imo; it is irreparable damage.

I would say it's definitely worse than starving in terms of torment or a death by stabbing, though those are up there. That's how cruel it was to inflict that on anyone, especially with the knowledge some of that was due to Tywin's own experience with his (effective)step mother.

To paraphrase Bronn, "If the choice was between fighting the mountain and fucking Lollys, you'd have your cock out of your breeches in an instant."

Unfortunately in Westeros, women get raped, sometimes even gang raped. And while this causes horrible mental damage that they'll never fully recover from, they are still alive, they can still have children of their own and can still lead happy lives. It would not cause the level of post traumatic stress that Theon's treatment would usually provoke.

Thus, I'd argue that having to kill innocent people during war (as most lords and kings do, including Tywin and other more "virtuous" characters like Robb) is far worse.

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By modern standards he'd be a poor father by Westerosi standards he was probably not that bad. Ned Stark is more than likely an exception rather than the rule when it comes to how Lords bring up their children.

Where do you get this information from? The only other Lord who does anything remotely as horrible as having his son's wife gang raped is Randall Tarly . Most of the other Lords treat their children pretty well.

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