Doctor Who Series 8; The time of the man that stops the monsters (v2)

[red snow]

The latter. This is one of those points I found so clear that I'm genuinely puzzled about how people missed it, but lots of people evidently did, so... maybe it's me. :P

I suspected it was the latter - the confusion was more with regards to whether the Doctor meant it or not.

Did it need to be earth and the moon? Why not another civilization and moon? Would that have impacted the decision making?

Sometimes it feels as though episodes are being put together simply so a line, such as the Doctor not being sure he doesn't have unlimited regenerations now, can be dropped.

I don't think that particular example was the basis of this episode at all though. I agree that it was dumped on us though.

[williamjm]

Which then makes me realize that perhaps the Doctor acted the way he did because he wasn't happy with how he handled himself in The Beast Below.

In that one, he felt he had no choice to render the space whale braindead, but Amy then figured out the truth and made the right choice before the Doctor could inflict permanent damage on the space whale.

I did notice the parallel with that episode as well. The eventual ending with the Companion over-riding the authority figure at the last moment is similar, although in one case it's the Doctor who is wrong, in the other the astronaut.

Did it need to be earth and the moon? Why not another civilization and moon? Would that have impacted the decision making?

It would probably have felt less implausible if it had been on another planet, although it would have made even less sense for Clara to be put in charge of the decision if it wasn't her home planet. They could also have had the disaster being the appearance of a second massive moon in Earth orbit.

[Scion of Valyria]

Did it need to be earth and the moon? Why not another civilization and moon? Would that have impacted the decision making?

Well, the Doctor wouldn't have been able to use his reasoning that "it's not my home, its not my decision" to the same effect.

While I certainly agree that the science behind the episode was ridiculous (not unfamiliar territory for the show, anywho) , and that the plot was silly, I did really enjoy it. A character piece, it seemed to me. I thought the point was to set this Doctor apart from the rest, and to show the tension it was causing between him and Clara. I can't see Nine, Ten, or Eleven walking into his TARDIS and leaving the choice to the humans. And while Clara may have been right in her accusations of him being patronizing (I liked the line about him hearing music in his head when he says shit like that), in the end, why should it be his choice? I think the dude is tired of being the hero. Matt Smith's arc had a big plotline about how his being the hero wasn't always a good thing, and I think Capaldi's withdrawing from it.

I do hope they don't just cancel out this argument with a "CLARA IM SORRY" moment. Even a "Doctor Im sorry" would be a cop-out. Let this remain the breaking point between Doctor and Companion. These two are ill-suited as travel buddies.

[Starkess]

Finally watched this episode and I did not like it, although the argument at the end saved it a little for me.

One, there's the atrocious science. How would the moon get heavier from being an egg? That just...okay whatever, maybe this creature is sucking up dark energy and converting it to mass or something. How are single-celled organisms gigantic spiders? Okay, whatever, it adds tension. How does the beach they are on seem totally unaffected by the enormous and rapid changes in the moon? Okay, whatever, it's picturesque. But I think the thing that really sent me over the edge--for no particular reason--was that the creature had wings and flew away. In space. :bang:

And on the character side, I think the Doctor totally copped out. Sure, Earth isn't his home planet, but when has that ever stopped him making decisions on its behalf 1.5 bajillion times before? Not to mention that he didn't leave them with all the information that he had. Which I think is at the crux of Clara's complaint. He left her to make a decision on the spot without any relevant information or any assistance. Plus he did it an extremely condescending and offensive manner. Oh and he left a teenaged girl there for no reason whatsoever. And this for the woman who has emphatically sworn that the Doctor would always have her back. And without any warning--he didn't. I would be pissed if I were her as well! But she's not completely innocent. Oh, no. You come up with the bright idea of taking a poll of some of the world's population (and don't think I didn't notice that--luckily!--Europe/America got to be in night for this) and then you completely disregard it. Good thing you are not staying in that time because you would be mobbed. And I don't like the teenager. Please do not make her a recurring companion. And Pink is beginning to really grate on me, he just seemed really weirdly smarmy in his scene at the end for no reason whatsoever.

Just...gah. Nope. Did not work for me at all.

ETA: Although one thing I did like was the contrast between Waters of Mars and this. On the one hand you had the Doctor--companionless--with his arrogance growing out of control and thinking he could do everything. On the other you have the Doctor's arrogance in throwing everything onto his companion and thinking he shouldn't do anything.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I am indifferent to this ep. As a ep, it was only ok, but it seemed like we have done this story not to long ago and Hermione Norris's character seemed a lot like Lindsay Duncan character from The Waters of Mars.

I like Norris, but this role seemed a bit small for her. She has played a leading role in most of the things I have seen her on, butting heads w/ Liam Cunningham, Eric Mabius, and Peter Firth. This seemed, well a bit mundane .

[red snow]

I am indifferent to this ep. As a ep, it was only ok, but it seemed like we have done this story not to long ago and Hermione Norris's character seemed a lot like Lindsay Duncan character from The Waters of Mars.

I like Norris, but this role seemed a bit small for her. She has played a leading role in most of the things I have seen her on, butting heads w/ Liam Cunningham, Eric Mabius, and Peter Firth. This seemed, well a bit mundane .

I also felt the role was beneath her and I really hope she's got better roles on her schedule. GOT maybe? She definitely does "take no shit leader" really well so was odd to see her playing such a passive role here

[dog-days]

Hermione Norris's acting was one of the relatively few plus points about the episode for me, even though her role was too small for someone with her abilities.

Was disappointed by the episode when I watched it. Suspense was not suspenseful. Face eating monsters contrived to be unscary. Had a bit of a surprise when I went online and found that a lot of the initial responses I read were strongly positive, and they've softened my attitude towards it.

Despite the disappointment, I hope the episode's writer does have another try. The actual dialogue was pretty solid, and things were at least divisive enough to be interesting.

I didn't object to the way Clara ignored humanity's decision. I didn't feel we were suppose to either strongly admire her or deprecate her for it. It just seemed as if she was learning about herself - what she could and could not live with - as she tried to make up her mind. It was a portrayal of someone having to make an agonizing decision, under great pressure, and not really knowing how. And it made her later explosion at the doctor understandable.

Like someone on the previous page, I liked Capaldi's speech about humanity seeing something beautiful and setting out to discover the cosmos. Although personally I envisioned a horde of Elmer Fudd's grasping their rifles and muttering: "I'm gonna get me that space chicken." But the actual science of the episode was too daft even for me. I understand that the writer wanted to suggest something totally miraculous and impossible, a kind of "On First Looking into Chapman's Homer" moment, but I think he should have chosen another, less well-known setting. Perhaps on a smaller scale. It doesn't have to be about saving the whole human race to be important.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Didn't really like the episode. I can overlook a lot of bullshit, but there was too much of it in this episode. I also found the girl (forgotten her name) really annoying and I refuse to believe that Clara would allow her to travel on the Tardis.

[DaveSumm]

And on the character side, I think the Doctor totally copped out. Sure, Earth isn't his home planet, but when has that ever stopped him making decisions on its behalf 1.5 bajillion times before?

Can't believe no one mentioned this until now. Weirdly, I'm so used to ignoring dodgy science with DW that this bothered me more. Pretty much any DW storyline that involves Earth for the last 50 years has him saving the planet.

I'm also more bothered than I should be by how easily people accept the Doctor's presence. Where did you come from? Oh, OK. Let's carry on with mission. Really?

And finally, if the moon had similar gravity to Earth, it must be a comparable mass. So they'd start to revolve round one other, with the centre of gravity midway between them. Which would surely knock both of them out of the sun's orbit long before you could get there for the whole episode to take place? It'd be good if Neil DeGrasse Tyson tweeted after every show.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I thought this episode was good, much better than last week. I really liked how the Doctor made himself the victim to save Maisie, though I thought Clara's change of heart came out of nowhere.

[williamjm]

I thought this episode was good, much better than last week. I really liked how the Doctor made himself the victim to save Maisie, though I thought Clara's change of heart came out of nowhere.

It was a lot better than I thought it was going to be, perhaps the most consistent episode of the series so far. I thought it was a good piece of monster design, the countdown and the idea that only the person about to die could see it were both effective, although the eventual explanation was slightly underwhelming.

I agree Clara's change of mind did seem slightly abrupt, although it was inevitable at some point given the earlier parts of the episode (if she'd really wanted to finish things with the Doctor she'd never have taken a 'final' trip with him). It may have helped that while he again forced Clara to do something difficult she didn't want to do at least he explained why later in a non-patronising way.

[felice]

It was a lot better than I thought it was going to be, perhaps the most consistent episode of the series so far.

Yes, definitely highlight of the season so far for me. And another by the same writer (Jamie Mathieson) coming up next; I'm actually optimistic about an upcoming episode for a change!

[Jon AS]

Much, much better than last week. Probably the best of the season so far.

Nice set for the train (and nice Queen cover during Clara and the Doctor's entrance), I was actually disappointed when it got replaced by the generic sci-fi lab. Good supporting cast, too, which always helps. I thought the resolution worked fine except for the question why the person who had just surrendered could also tell the mummy to stand down.

It was also amusing that the Doctor wasted a couple of his 66 seconds to make a joke nobody (except the viewers) would get. Might be arrogant, but as he immediately went to prove is equally arrogant boast that he could stop the thing if he was the intended next victim he kind of earned it.

Clara's decision wasn't unexpected. I thought it was clear what her decision was going to be from her conversation with Danny, but it comes with the added insight that she is acting like an addict. Clearly that's not good.

[felice]

I thought the resolution worked fine except for the question why the person who had just surrendered could also tell the mummy to stand down.

I don't think the "stand down" had any authority, it was more a kind of reassurance than anything else. The surrender on its own was sufficient, and the mummy would have shut down afterwards anyway.

[Lord_Baelish]

Maybe I'm just being dense (definitely a possibility) but are we supposed to know who Gus is?

I enjoyed the episode mostly, though I was a little let down by how the mummy was defeated in the end. But it was a great design for it and the plot ran a lot more smoothly than recent episodes. And I even liked Frank Skinner in it, which I wasn't expecting at all.

[Castel]

I don't think the "stand down" had any authority, it was more a kind of reassurance than anything else. The surrender on its own was sufficient, and the mummy would have shut down afterwards anyway.

But if the Doctor is from the group that the Mummy is fighting-which lets him surrender- why does the Mummy prioritize the weak among its enemies? After all, they can't stop him, and it needs organs. Shouldn't it pick off the strong?

[red snow]

Tricky one for me - it was actually a really well put together episode but I just didn't feel any of it. Capaldi goes from strength to strength with this colder doctor though. It's now at a point where I wouldn't have dismissed the possibility at all of the Doctor leaving everyone else on the ship to die,

Clara is still proving a bit of an emotional roller coaster with her "I want fun and adventure but don't want any responsibility". It's unfair of her to put those demands on the Doctor but at least I get the impression he knows he can't but ignores the fact as long as he has a companion,

Maybe I'm just being dense (definitely a possibility) but are we supposed to know who Gus is?

Me too. The fact he hacked into the TARDIS and seems to have the Doctor's number makes me feel like we should have seen him before or at least will see more of "him".

Can't believe no one mentioned this until now. Weirdly, I'm so used to ignoring dodgy science with DW that this bothered me more. Pretty much any DW storyline that involves Earth for the last 50 years has him saving the planet.

It is convenient. I'd handwave it as this incident was apparently about shaping mankind's destiny in terms of how they act/behave. A lot of the time the Doctor saves the earth but it's not in a way that will change our attitude/behaviour. We just keep on going.

That said I'd have thought that the Torchwood events where all the children were being taken and where no one could die would have a massive effect on society. Maybe that's why the Doctor wasn't present?

[mormont]

Far superior episode this week, with a script that looked like it was written by someone who actually cared.

Great setting, good monster, terrific performances, strong plot, lots of nice little touches. The cigarette case full of jelly babies, 'are you my mummy?', the jazz Queen cover. And Capaldi was very good - for a second I really thought he was serious when he said 'no, I left them behind, this is my cover story'. Until Perkins showed up, anyway.

The Doctor was clearly suspicious of Perkins, btw, but I think he's a red herring.

'Gus' has to connect to Missy somehow. He has the TARDIS number, for one thing: and that list of lost ships, I couldn't help but wonder if the ship from ep 1 was on it somewhere.

Clara using Danny as an excuse to go on traveling with the Doctor is another pretty crappy bit of behaviour from her.

[Castel]

Clara using Danny as an excuse to go on traveling with the Doctor is another pretty crappy bit of behaviour from her.

Clara essentially created a problem out of nowhere here. I would love to see it blow up but it was so unnecessary that I'm already tired of it. We just did the whole "hide my secret trips from my love interest" thing.

[felice]

But if the Doctor is from the group that the Mummy is fighting-which lets him surrender- why does the Mummy prioritize the weak among its enemies? After all, they can't stop him, and it needs organs. Shouldn't it pick off the strong?

The Mummy doesn't actually want to be killing people, it's just compelled to follow outdated orders; my guess is it's using its discretion to go after those with the least to lose, in the hope that the survivors will escape or find a way to kill it. Alternatively, starting with those most likely to be written off as dying from natural causes delays its discovery. Incidentally, I loved how they did multiple simulations to establish Maisie was the most likely next target, rather than assume there was only one possible way to rank "weakness".

Me too. The fact he hacked into the TARDIS and seems to have the Doctor's number makes me feel like we should have seen him before or at least will see more of "him".

I'm confident we'll see more, or at least get a throwaway reference to him being part of the Missy thing (the latter being more likely with Moffat at the helm).

Capaldi was very good - for a second I really thought he was serious when he said 'no, I left them behind, this is my cover story'. Until Perkins showed up, anyway.

The Doctor was clearly suspicious of Perkins, btw, but I think he's a red herring.

Yes, I wasn't certain about the cover story claim either. Though I think we should have seen more than just Perkins afterwards. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him return later.