deleted01 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp. Allow me to attempt an explanation."Nice arse" is not a compliment, or anything of the sort. A stranger saying my hair looks nice - unless it's a wacky colour or style - is weird. Someone I know saying it is fine. Shouting "alright beautiful?" or something like that is not acceptable in my book. It does not make me feel good - and no I will NOT be grateful for you deciding to notice me - it makes me feel uncomfortable, and how the hell do people think it's a good way to start a conversation with someone? I'm open to chatting to strangers, passing the time of day in a queue or the like, but do me the favour of treating me like a human being, mmk?Someone did call out that they love my ghost jumper the other day. This is always fine by me, because my jumpers are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Brook,People who touch baby bumps without, at a bare minimum, asking are so far over the line they can no longer see the line. And, asking a stranger is really forward.You know what, if you aren't a close friend or family member don't ask to touch baby bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't know why this is so hard for people to grasp. Allow me to attempt an explanation."Nice arse" is not a compliment, or anything of the sort. A stranger saying my hair looks nice - unless it's a wacky colour or style - is weird. Someone I know saying it is fine. Shouting "alright beautiful?" or something like that is not acceptable in my book. It does not make me feel good - and no I will NOT be grateful for you deciding to notice me - it makes me feel uncomfortable, and how the hell do people think it's a good way to start a conversation with someone? I'm open to chatting to strangers, passing the time of day in a queue or the like, but do me the favour of treating me like a human being, mmk?Someone did call out that they love my ghost jumper the other day. This is always fine by me, because my jumpers are awesome. Is this directed at me? Brook,People who touch baby bumps without, at a bare minimum, asking are so far over the line they can no longer see the line. yeah, i never understood why people think this is ok. Or why they even WANT to do it...... Very strange phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlle. Zabzie Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Deedles - I used "please don't touch me." That shut it down fast. It was so uncomfortable though. Also, I think it's ok to say "I like your jacket" or "cool bag" or something like that because it's not about ME, but rather about something that I've accessorized with. That is, the object is the object, I'm not the object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I've complimented people in the past, on very specific non personal things, "great bag", " "love your shoes", "where did you get that bag" but it's always been when a) in public and B) when standing. I would never dream of stopping someone to strike up a conversation when they are walking somewhere or making a random statement. I am disturbed and upset when people tell me to "smile ", "cheer up", "lovely eyes" or the like when I am going somewhere. The only time I think it's ok / non threatening is if I'm walking my dog and someone says "hello", "good time of the day". I'm clearly engaged in a leisure activity and it feels different to me.Having said that, I'm terrified of randomers touching me when the bump starts showing properly. I'm Not great with hugging / touching when I'm not expecting it. Do I just grope them back? Run away? Does it really happen that much. I would have felt my Mums bump when she was pregnant with my brother but I've never felt the need to touch anyone else's. Get mean. As a pregnant lady, you are socially permitted to fly off the handle and tear someone a new arsehole without anyone thinking it's weird or out of line or reflects badly on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Intersectionality and Kyriarchy I'm in a faculty reading group now tackling the book called "Whistling Vivaldi: How stereotypes affect us and what we can do" by Dr. Claude M. Steele. It's a well-regarded book and the author is an experimental psychologist with years of research work on the topic. The book is written in an accessible language and not filled with jargons. I encourage anyone interested in the issues of stereotypes to give it a go. At any rate, one of the topics in the book that the author mentioned but didn't delve deeply into is the intersectionality of identities. While discussing this topic with the group, someone brought up a current stream of thought that focus on the inter-relatedness and inter-dependency of various forms of biases. For instance, if we examine the language of homophobia and anti-gay biases, we will see that it originates largely from sexism. So this is like approaching intersectionality from a different angle by looking at the inter-dependencies of biases. So one of the issues I want to throw out here is the different ways that ethnic women are sexualized compared to white women. Black females are cast as sexually vorocious and almost predatory, while Asian women are alternatively cast as Dragon Ladies or submissive demure girls. In contrast, black men are sexually characterized as virile and also predatory, but Asian men are often desxualized or emasculated. So I think there is a lot at work here between sexism and racism and on how they interact to both reinforce each other and to create new variations of themselvesto fit a dominant narrative. Are there other sexism examples that are influenced by racism? Do all of these operate on the same principles or are there differences across culture, e.g. is the sexual characterizations of African females similar in European countries (like France)? Other strands of thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litechick Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Intersectionality and Kyriarchy The book is written in an accessible language and not filled with jargons. This gave me a nice laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Intersectionality and KyriarchyI'm in a faculty reading group now tackling the book called "Whistling Vivaldi: How stereotypes affect us and what we can do" by Dr. Claude M. Steele. It's a well-regarded book and the author is an experimental psychologist with years of research work on the topic. The book is written in an accessible language and not filled with jargons. I encourage anyone interested in the issues of stereotypes to give it a go.At any rate, one of the topics in the book that the author mentioned but didn't delve deeply into is the intersectionality of identities. While discussing this topic with the group, someone brought up a current stream of thought that focus on the inter-relatedness and inter-dependency of various forms of biases. For instance, if we examine the language of homophobia and anti-gay biases, we will see that it originates largely from sexism. So this is like approaching intersectionality from a different angle by looking at the inter-dependencies of biases.So one of the issues I want to throw out here is the different ways that ethnic women are sexualized compared to white women. Black females are cast as sexually vorocious and almost predatory, while Asian women are alternatively cast as Dragon Ladies or submissive demure girls. In contrast, black men are sexually characterized as virile and also predatory, but Asian men are often desxualized or emasculated. So I think there is a lot at work here between sexism and racism and on how they interact to both reinforce each other and to create new variations of themselvesto fit a dominant narrative. Are there other sexism examples that are influenced by racism? Do all of these operate on the same principles or are there differences across culture, e.g. is the sexual characterizations of African females similar in European countries (like France)? Other strands of thoughts on this?A few possible questions come to mind: Do black women suffer more racism than black men?Are racist men always sexist? White culture intersects with black culture most visibly in Music and Sport. White culture intersects with Asian culture most visibly in spheres like Food and Spirituality. Are black and Asian men polarised here into a male-and-female parody, with black men more 'manly' than white men and Asian men playing the 'woman's role'? Following this line enters into a controversial area. Physical differences between races. Sexual competitiveness between men. I have heard it said that Asian men dislike Asian women who sleep with western men, due to fear of the western man being better endowed than the Asian man. This fear is of course echoed in the white man's attitude to black men.Please note that I think Bruce Lee was the man to end all men, I'm not looking to disrespect Asian men in any way.Dragon Lady/ Submissive Girl could be an exotic mirror of the Whore/ Virgin dichotomy, in which case it's interesting that black women are depicted without the duality. The characterisation of black women is surely straightforward racism, the superiority complex that represents black people as 'less evolved'. Possibly this implies a different form of racism towards Asian people, one that represents them as inferior but in a way more 'exotic' than 'primitive'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Brook linked this piece to me yesterday about how women basically can't win voice wise, whatever they do it will be deemed inferior to a mans voice. I was thinking on it today and I think Anita Sarkeesian is a wonderful illustration of this. She tries to avoid speaking in a manner that could be dismissed as "irrational" "emotional" or "hysterical" and speaks with a very measured calm voice. Despite this, the vast majority of commentary I see on her from people who want to disagree with her, but think they need to appear neutral, is that they don't like how she speaks, it's too up herself etc etc. If this criticism was made by a woman of a man it would be instantly dismissed as irrational bullshit, but instead we have this legion of apparently logical men who suddenly value the "gut feeling" they get from her tone and how this is a good measure to use to dismiss her entire argument. It's ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Valley Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I would like to point out that your "bump" is extending below the navel in early-mid pregnancy. This is a part of your body that is normally IN YOUR UNDERWEAR. Everyone will try to touch you. Kill them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yersinia Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 No one ever tried to touch me when I was pregnant, with the exception of qualified professionals and the guy who got me in that situation. Maybe it was the fact that I threw out my hands and elbows if someone threatened to come too close, or maybe it was the intense leave-me-the-f*ck-alone vibe that I was doubtless radiating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Toblerone Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Brook linked this piece to me yesterday about how women basically can't win voice wise, whatever they do it will be deemed inferior to a mans voice. I was thinking on it today and I think Anita Sarkeesian is a wonderful illustration of this. She tries to avoid speaking in a manner that could be dismissed as "irrational" "emotional" or "hysterical" and speaks with a very measured calm voice. Despite this, the vast majority of commentary I see on her from people who want to disagree with her, but think they need to appear neutral, is that they don't like how she speaks, it's too up herself etc etc. If this criticism was made by a woman of a man it would be instantly dismissed as irrational bullshit, but instead we have this legion of apparently logical men who suddenly value the "gut feeling" they get from her tone and how this is a good measure to use to dismiss her entire argument. It's ludicrous. I definitely perceive her tone at times as "schoolmarm-y disapproval". And I'm not hostile to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I definitely perceive her tone at times as "schoolmarm-y disapproval". And I'm not hostile to her. I find Sarkeesian pretty pleasant to listen to. She has clear pronunciation and speaks with a fairly even pace. I assume tho that as a dirty foreigner I am of naturally flawed hearing. :P On the other hand I am used to watching varies online nerd videos of how to create topology in OpenSource GIS and such things so I think my bar is perhaps set rather low after that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 A discussion on the street harassment video, don't know if any of you guys watch Pop Trigger or The Young Turks but I thought it was interesting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Lf3-vJn4E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 If this criticism was made by a woman of a man it would be instantly dismissed as irrational bullshit, but instead we have this legion of apparently logical men who suddenly value the "gut feeling" they get from her tone and how this is a good measure to use to dismiss her entire argument. It's ludicrous. Great point. Reminds me of people who complain, "My friend came out last year, and now he has 'gay voice.'" I'd argue that perhaps the "straight voice" is the affectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Great point. Reminds me of people who complain, "My friend came out last year, and now he has 'gay voice.'" I'd argue that perhaps the "straight voice" is the affectation. It must be a sign of my living in a small town in country bumpkin county that I cannot discern between a gay voice and a straight voice. *nods* (But really "gay voice"? I'm trying to picture this somehow but I am totally failing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 It must be a sign of my living in a small town in country bumpkin county that I cannot discern between a gay voice and a straight voice. *nods* (But really "gay voice"? I'm trying to picture this somehow but I am totally failing.) Really?You've never heard that stereotypical "gay" voice,even on TV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Really?You've never heard that stereotypical "gay" voice,even on TV? No can't say I have. Perhaps I just watch the wrong shows, but the gay TV-personalities we have sound like themselves and not more or less gay than anyone else. I guess I also must have disappointing gay friends since none of them made me go "zomg gay voice!!!". I mean there is stereotypical mannerism that is normally trotted out when it comes to gay men in particular, but no voice thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summah Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Maybe "gay voice" varies by country?I'm surprised that no one has mentioned shrill being used to criticize women's voices, I've heard this frequently even applied to women for whom it's not true like Hillary Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Brook linked this piece to me yesterday about how women basically can't win voice wise, whatever they do it will be deemed inferior to a mans voice. I was thinking on it today and I think Anita Sarkeesian is a wonderful illustration of this. She tries to avoid speaking in a manner that could be dismissed as "irrational" "emotional" or "hysterical" and speaks with a very measured calm voice. Despite this, the vast majority of commentary I see on her from people who want to disagree with her, but think they need to appear neutral, is that they don't like how she speaks, it's too up herself etc etc. If this criticism was made by a woman of a man it would be instantly dismissed as irrational bullshit, but instead we have this legion of apparently logical men who suddenly value the "gut feeling" they get from her tone and how this is a good measure to use to dismiss her entire argument. It's ludicrous. This is why all women should use a special "Stephen Hawking Voice" microphone to come across as brilliant and unassailable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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