Six Pups in the Snow: A Direwolves Reread

[evita mgfs]

GHOST EMPOWERS JON SNOW JON V NOTES

In Bran’s last POV, Grey Wind and Summer appear at Robb’s command, both wearing bloody muzzles from the elk they had taken down. Similarly, when Ghost returns to Jon after he hunts, kills, and feeds, he has blood on his muzzle.

In both scenes, when the direwolves rejoin their masters, significant events transpire that insinuate unusual strength, power, and/or insight. Perhaps the blood from their kills serves as a powerful elixir that strengthens the bond between wolf and boy.

It stands to reason that through the direwolves intrinsic connection to the Stark children that maybe when the wolves feed and nourish their corporal bodies, they also nourish their Stark counterpart, the fresh blood magically awakening each child’s “pre” warg spirits and other gifts, either inherited through their ancestral Stark bloodline or through their association with the old gods.

Bran survives his fall, in part, because Summer sings beneath the window of his sickroom. But not until summer tastes blood when he kills bran’s would-be-assassin does bran soon after awake from his long sleep.

Bran grows increasingly stronger via his physical and mental alliance with Summer. Likewise, Robb demonstrates propitious strength in the wolfswood by lifting and securing a dead elk onto his gelding without aid from another, after which Robb battles six brigands with the assistance of Grey Wind and Summer.

With many characters in Martin’s series repeatedly mentioning a magical potency relating to blood, then it stands to reason that when the direwolves feed to sate their own hunger, they are also symbolically nourishing their Stark counterpart.

In Jon’s seventh POV , he saddles his mare and takes Ghost along for a ride so that Jon can ruminate about his future and his friend Samwell’s future as men of the Night’s Watch. Ghost runs off to hunt, leaving Jon alone with his thoughts as his horse follows a stream to the Kingsroad. Jon examines his feelings about taking an oath that will commit him for life. After indulging in memories of his half-siblings and his former home of Winterfell, Jon comes to an inspired resolution: Winterfell in no longer his home. Instead, Jon wheels his mare around and they start for “home”, his destination the Wall and his new brothers.

When Jon reaches the top of a hill, Ghost joins him with his bloody muzzle, evidence that he has hunted, killed, and eaten. It is after Ghost and Jon are united and heading to Castle Black that Jon conceives of a way to save Samwell from a bloody fate at the whims of Ser Alliser Thorne.

Not only does Jon conceive a plan, but the Stark bastard becomes single-minded in making the outcome a success. Thus, Ghost’s hunting, killing, and eating his prey somehow translates to Jon who grows emboldened in executing his plan. Jon symbolically embraces his “inner direwolf” when he visits Maeser Aemon’s apartment and then refuses to leave until he speaks with the Maester. Jon stubbornly ignores Chett, and pushes his way into the Maester’s apartment, even though Chett tells him that the Maester is asleep. Jon “instinctively” knows that Chett is lying.

But the most telling sign of a magical bond between Ghost and Jon is the way an otherwise inexperienced boy in the art of persuasive argument attacks his discourse to Maester Aemon, demonstrating his command of “winning words” that appeal to Maester Aemon’s emotions; that are organized logically and rationally; and that offer evidence with specific examples.

Consequently, Snow’s speech is hard to ignore or refute. Aristotle himself could not have presented a more appealing case made even more emotionally powerful because of Jon’s sincerity, credibility, and passion. Now, does Ghost play a role in “symbolically” nourishing Jon from his bloody kill? Or has Jon been hiding his mastery of speaking? Jon further convinces Maester Aemon to his cause specifically by choosing the links of his chain as a prop that touches at the very core of the Maester’s life goal to serve.

Jon is magically endowed with a charisma and a command of the language that will directly affect his own future and the future of Samwell Tarly. Even more important, Jon’s moving argument seemingly touches Maester Aemon’s soul, and the Maester’s reaction will ultimately spare Samwell from harm. Furthermore, the reason why Jon Snow is not assigned as a ranger is probably that Maester Aemon talks with the Lord Commander, conveying Jon’s selfless plea on behalf of another and Jon’s impressive argument that persuades Maester Aemon in his favor.

Ironically, Jon’s selfless act may undo his prospect of being assigned as a ranger. It is in his power of speech and his sincere motivations that mark Jon Snow for grooming as the next LC of the Night’s Watch.

[Harlaw's Book the Sequel]

But the most telling sign of a magical bond between Ghost and Jon is the way an otherwise inexperienced boy in the art of persuasive argument attacks his discourse to Maester Aemon, demonstrating his command of “winning words” that appeal to Maester Aemon’s emotions; that are organized logically and rationally; and that offer evidence with specific examples.

Consequently, Snow’s speech is hard to ignore or refute. Aristotle himself could not have presented a more appealing case made even more emotionally powerful because of Jon’s sincerity, credibility, and passion. Now, does Ghost play a role in “symbolically” nourishing Jon from his bloody kill? Or has Jon been hiding his mastery of speaking? Jon further convinces Maester Aemon to his cause specifically by choosing the links of his chain as a prop that touches at the very core of the Maester’s life goal to serve.

Jon is magically endowed with a charisma and a command of the language that will directly affect his own future and the future of Samwell Tarly.

Interesting, but in IMHO, I think this is overstating the power of the warg bond. I think it was the mental journey, not the shedding of blood, that enabled Bran to wake up. We've Jon use his powers of persuasion quite a few times before this chapter: convincing Ned to keep the direwolves, convincing Arya to face Septa Mordane and her mother, convincing Ned to let him join the NW, convincing the other boys not to pick on Sam. And we've had Arya and Bran recalling instances happening long before the direwolves where Jon knew what to say (or do) in order to help them ie Jon convinced Arya she's not a bastard or when he gave his fish to Bran after Bran didn't catch anything. For the most part, Jon is pretty good at persuasion. (Ghost only had to step in and help Jon with Sam only after Jon tried several ways to get Sam to open up). He's not perfect at it --ie the conversation with Benjen in regards to joining the NW. But even when Jon's warging gets much stronger in ADWD, he doesn't achieve a 100% persuasion record.

I feel Ghost's hunting and the blood are symbols, parallels, and a nice atmospheric touch rather than a cause or motivator. This chapter was notable to me in how independent Ghost and Jon were of each other, and there was this underlying theme that each had to let the other be in order for both of them to accomplish their objectives. This was a time where I felt Jon didn't need Ghost, so (hopefully) it will be interesting to contrast this decision making process with the decisions he makes at the end of AGOT and ASOS where I feel Ghost does get more involved.

But again, thank you for a really thought provoking post!

[Julia H.]

Thanks Harlaw's Book for another thoughtful and thorough intoduction! Some very interesting ideas here. There is a lot to comment on, but now I would like to focus on one detail only:

He wheeled his horse around and started for home.

Ghost returned as he crested a rise and saw the distant glow of lamplight from the Lord Commander's Tower. The direwolf's muzzle was red with blood as he trotted beside the horse. Jon found himself thinking of Samwell Tarly again on the ride back. By the time he reached the stable, he knew what he must do.

Reading the wonderful Jon Snow reread threads, I learned that blood (especially blood on someone's hand) is associated with taking responsibility in ASOIAF. This time it is Ghost's muzzle that is red with blood, and he reappears after Jon turns back towards Castle Black, "crests a rise" (interesting choice of words) and sees the light of the Lord Commander's Tower. The Lord Commander's Tower signals the true responsibility that is waiting for Jon Snow in Castle Black, and the scene is full of the idea of rising, of high places. In the sentences following the mention of Ghost and his red muzzle, we find that Jon is thinking of Samwell Tarly on his way back. Not of his own future, not of his prospects, not of what he might gain or lose, but of his responsibility. ("All we could do wasn't enough.") In the end, he knows what he must do.

It seems Ghost left not only in order to hunt but he has also let Jon make this important decision alone (and "beneath the open sky", interestingly), and he returns when Jon has made his decision, when he has decided to take the responsibility the vow means. The blood on Ghost's muzzle may well indicate the responsibilty Jon has just accepted.

"So tell me, Jon Snow, why have you come calling at this strange hour?"

Could it be the Hour of the Wolf? It is supposed to be "the blackest part of the night". Maester Aemon has used the phrase "a midnight visitor". Could it be that particular hour? Just a thought, I really don't know, but historically, "The Hour of the Wolf" was the occasion where Cregan Stark passed judgement on various other lords on behalf of a Targaryen king. Most of the convicted took the black. Now here's another Targaryen and another Stark (who is not "simply" a Stark) - talking about what various people are worth. Since it is night, it would be quite fitting for the scene to take place at the hour of the wolf, but we are not told, so it may not be meant that way after all.

[evita mgfs]

Thank you for acknowledging my “unsolicited” contributions to your direwolf reread., and I apologize for intruding upon your shared analytical thoughts regarding Martin’s blood motif as it pertains to the Stark progeny and their wolves.

I have very much enjoyed this thread and the insightful theorizing many contributors share with thread readers. Thank you for your thoughtfulness.

I respect that Martin’s prose narratives are rich in layers of subtext that invites readers to draw conclusions based on different levels of interpretation and different approaches of studying literature. Certainly Martin does not skimp on providing a series of novels of prodigious length, covering substantive details that allow for multiple analytical assumptions.

In my deconstruction of POVs in AGoT, I determined a commonality involving appearances of blood that marks a symbolic trail weaving one POV into the next. Blood, in its host of incarnations, purposes, and meanings, functions as both a unifying device and a transitional element.

Aside from Martin employing blood stylistically, he also intimates dozens of symbolic possibilities associated with blood. One of my theories is based upon Martin’s language choices in his descriptions of blood being “ingested” by both animate and inanimate “things”, including humans, animals, and beings living and dead.

I wish to share one of my important observations regarding the discovery of the direwolf pups that I did not read in the early posts on this thread.

The mother HAD to be ALIVE for the birth of the pups because ALL OF THEM had been cleaned – no evidence of their births matted in their furry coats. The first thing a bitch/dame does upon delivery of a pup is break the sac and eat all evidence of its birth, cleaning the pup of blood and other residuals.

All the pups, even Ghost, is CLEANED!

I know this as a former breeder of Golden Retrievers who has assisted at the births of several litters.

[Harlaw's Book the Sequel]

Thank you for acknowledging my “unsolicited” contributions to your direwolf reread., and I apologize for intruding upon your shared analytical thoughts regarding Martin’s blood motif as it pertains to the Stark progeny and their wolves.

I have very much enjoyed this thread and the insightful theorizing many contributors share with thread readers. Thank you for your thoughtfulness.

Evita mgfs, please don't apologize. IMHO, a thread is not any fun if everyone shares the same opinion. Your posts have made this project all the more richer, and I'm looking forward to more of your insights.

I wish to share one of my important observations regarding the discovery of the direwolf pups that I did not read in the early posts on this thread.

The mother HAD to be ALIVE for the birth of the pups because ALL OF THEM had been cleaned – no evidence of their births matted in their furry coats. The first thing a bitch/dame does upon delivery of a pup is break the sac and eat all evidence of its birth, cleaning the pup of blood and other residuals.

All the pups, even Ghost, is CLEANED!

I know this as a former breeder of Golden Retrievers who has assisted at the births of several litters.

This makes feel sad and want to go "aww" at the same time. When I think of the mother direwolf, my thoughts always go to her fighting the stag, but as you pointed out, she did more than just fight. There is more to being a she-wolf than being a warrior.

Thanks and great post, Julia H.!

It seems Ghost left not only in order to hunt but he has also let Jon make this important decision alone (and "beneath the open sky", interestingly), and he returns when Jon has made his decision, when he has decided to take the responsibility the vow means. The blood on Ghost's muzzle may well indicate the responsibilty Jon has just accepted.

Interesting note about the decision being made "beneath the open sky." Even though we haven't really discussed Dany's chapters much in this reread, I am picking up some parallels --mostly in the bond between herself and and her silver. And of course, we're likely to find more once the dragons hatch.

"So tell me, Jon Snow, why have you come calling at this strange hour?"

Could it be the Hour of the Wolf? It is supposed to be "the blackest part of the night". Maester Aemon has used the phrase "a midnight visitor". Could it be that particular hour? Just a thought, I really don't know, but historically, "The Hour of the Wolf" was the occasion where Cregan Stark passed judgement on various other lords on behalf of a Targaryen king. Most of the convicted took the black. Now here's another Targaryen and another Stark (who is not "simply" a Stark) - talking about what various people are worth. Since it is night, it would be quite fitting for the scene to take place at the hour of the wolf, but we are not told, so it may not be meant that way after all.

• I'm just as unsure whether this is occurring during the Hour of the Wolf, but it would make sense because it does seem to be the hour for action.

I'm so glad TWOIAF gave us the info it did on Cregan Stark (though of course I'm still craving more). It seems like Cregan's tenure as Hand is the exact opposite of Ned who is dragging his feet in regards to taking action against the Lannisters --resulting in Robert's death. Meanwhile we have Jon being more like Cregan in that he refuses to let it be too late to save Sam. The reward Jon receives is the post of being the Lord Commander's steward, which can be analogous to being heir to a lordship. Baelor Breakspear was the Hand to his father Daeron II, and Viserys I considered making Rhaenyra his hand. And I think if Mormont and Jon had more time together, Jon's position would've become very similar to being Mormont's Hand. And that is a question I have about Jon's fate --will he take the path of a king or of a Hand?

[evita mgfs]

Evita mgfs, please don't apologize. IMHO, a thread is not any fun if everyone shares the same opinion. Your posts have made this project all the more richer, and I'm looking forward to more of your insights.

This makes feel sad and want to go "aww" at the same time. When I think of the mother direwolf, my thoughts always go to her fighting the stag, but as you pointed out, she did more than just fight. There is more to being a she-wolf than being a warrior.

Thanks and great post, Julia H.!

Well, thank you. I do wish to point out that Jon has already decided to join the SB of the NW before his persuasive argument to the Maester:

"The grey walls of Winterfell may still haunt his [Jon's] dreams, but Castle Black was now his life, and his brothers were Sam and Gren and Halder and Pyp and the other cast outs of the men who wore the black of the NW" (AGoT 271).

I did not bore you all with my deconstruction of Jon's argument applying it to Aristotle's strategies for arguing and winning. Jon even scores points for proving all he has learned from others, as he references Maester Luwin by name and the one-armed smith's advice.

[Harlaw's Book the Sequel]

I did not bore you all with my deconstruction of Jon's argument applying it to Aristotle's strategies for arguing and winning. Jon even scores points for proving all he has learned from others, as he references Maester Luwin by name and the one-armed smith's advice.

Would you PM'ing it to me? I'm interested in reading it.

[evita mgfs]

Would you PM'ing it to me? I'm interested in reading it.

:bowdown: Dear Harlaw's Book the Sequel: :cheers:

Thank you for asking. I am honored to share my work here among so many brilliant scholars. I hope you can see what I was trying to do – demonstrate how Jon is endowed with persuasive oratory skills; however, Jon is a great observer of men, so I do not know how “strong” my assertion is regarding Ghost empowering Jon’s appeal to the Maester. Perhaps Ghost gives him courage and “moxy” to face the Maester with his request.

Deconstructing Jon Snow’s Argument Attending to Aristotle’s Rhetoric

[From Aristotle’s Rhetoric]

Persuasion, according to Aristotle and the many authorities that would echo him, is brought about through three kinds of proof (pistis) or persuasive appeal:

logos

The appeal to reason.

pathos

The appeal to emotion.

ethos

The persuasive appeal of one's character.

Although they can be analyzed separately, these three appeals work together in combination toward persuasive ends.

Aristotle calls these "artistic" or "intrinsic" proofs—those that could be found by means of the art of rhetoric—in contrast to "nonartistic" or "extrinsic" proofs such as witnesses or contracts that are simply used by the speaker, not found through rhetoric.

http://rhetoric.byu.edu/persuasive%20appeals/persuasive%20appeals.htm

Logos names the appeal to reason. Aristotle wished that all communication could be transacted only through this appeal, but given the weaknesses of humanity, he laments, we must resort to the use of the other two appeals. The Greek term logos is laden with many more meanings than simply "reason," and is in fact the term used for "oration."

http://rhetoric.byu.edu/persuasive%20appeals/Logos.htm

Pathos names the appeal to emotion. Cicero encouraged the use of pathos at the conclusion of an oration, but emotional appeals are of course more widely viable. Aristotle's Rhetoric contains a great deal of discussion of affecting the emotions, categorizing the kinds of responses of different demographic groups. Thus, we see the close relations between assessment of pathos and of audience. Pathos is also the category by which we can understand the psychological aspects of rhetoric. Criticism of rhetoric tends to focus on the overemphasis of pathos, emotion, at the expense of logos, the message.

http://rhetoric.byu.edu/persuasive%20appeals/Pathos.htm

Ethos names the persuasive appeal of one's character, especially how this character is established by means of the speech or discourse. Aristotle claimed that one needs to appear both knowledgeable about one's subject and benevolent. Cicero said that in classical oratory the initial portion of a speech (its exordium or introduction) was the place to establish one's credibility with the audience.

http://rhetoric.byu.edu/persuasive%20appeals/Ethos.htm

Jon Snow’s visit to Maester Aemon late in the evening is to win him to his cause to spare Samwell Tarly from Ser Alliser Thorne’s physical and mental abuse. Jon’s solution is for Samwell to be promoted to brother of the NW along with the eight already advanced.

In his appeals to the Maester, he attends to persuasion techniques that mirror those of Aristotle.

Jon Snow successfully gains access to Maester Aemon’s apartment, which is no small task with the steward Chett on guard duty.

Jon threatens to stand with his boot in the doorway indefinitely; that is, Chett resolves to keep Jon out loses its flavor.

Chett may have failed to keep Jon Snow out, but he manages to exercise his authority in another way: Chett orders Jon to make a fire so that Maester Aemon does not catch a chill. Jon has “the logs crackling merrily” when Chett returns with Maester Aemon in his bed robe, but around his neck was the chain of his order (449).

Hawk-eyed Jon does not miss a thing, for he observes that a master does not remove his chain collar even to sleep. Maester Aemon’s loyalty to his profession and to the Wall is a trait Jon will depend on once he begins his persuasive argument formally.

To open the discussion, Jon apologizes to Maester Aemon for seeking an audience at such a late hour, although Jon’s stubborn nature maintains his focus on a truly selfless purpose. [Ethos]

Maester Aemon assures Jon that he had not been sleeping. “I often spend half the night with ghosts, remembering times fifty years past as if they were yesterday. The mystery of a midnight visitor is a welcome diversion. So tell me, Jon Snow, why have you come calling at this strange hour?"

Jon answers frankly and bravely: "To ask that Samwell Tarly be taken from training and accepted as a brother of the Night's Watch."

Maester Aemon responds “gently”, for he realizes that Jon’s request is heartfelt and sincere. Moreover, asking a maester for such a consideration demands a certain amount of moxy. Not only does Jon visit the maester at night, which adds a sense of urgency to his request, but he faces Maester Aemon one on one and not through a letter or another messenger. Besides, Jon asks a favor on behalf of another, which illustrates Jon’s generous nature, and certainly Maester Aemon wishes to build such traits in the future brothers.

Maester Aemon asks Jon why he brings his request to him when Ser Alliser Thorne is the one who decides when a new recruit is ready to take his vows as a brother of the Night’s Watch. Jon’s response follows:

"The Lord Commander listens to you," Jon told him. "And the wounded and the sick of the Night's Watch are in your charge."

Jon commands some remarkable persuasion techniques for a fifteen-year-old, and his honest response may be flattering in some way to the Maester whom the Lord Commander seeks out above all others for advice and counsel: “The Lord Commander listens to you” [Ethos]. With little effort, Jon intimates that Thorne is not the “go-to” man for the Lord Commander, and Jon desires Maester Aemon’s sympathy so that he will speak to the Lord Commander on Jon’s behalf.

Jon appeals to Maester Aemon’s emotions by arousing his sense of duty to “serve” those in his charge who are “wounded and sick”. [Pathos] As a result of Jon’s persuasion, Maester Aemon does inquire about Samwell’s present health, to which Jon “promises” will advance to “wounded and sick” unless Maester Aemon helps him.

Jon continues his argument by organizing his thoughts logically and by presenting his evidences to prove Samwell is in danger if he remains in the company of Ser Alliser Thorne [Logos].

As Maester Aemon listens with his “blind eyes fixed on the fire” (449), Jon discloses “all of it”, including when Jon uses his own direwolf Ghost to frighten Rast into promising he will not abuse Samwell in the practice yard. Jon’s sincere, honest concern for a fellow recruit and future brother should please Maester Aemon and subsequently the Lord Commander.

Jon argues passionately [Pathos] that without the others and himself forming a pact against Thorne’s abusive orders that pits one boy against another, Samwell will have no chance. Thorne will make sure Samwell is hurt or even killed.

To further bolster his cause, Jon reports that Samwell is “hopeless with a sword”, and to emphasize Samwell’s ineptitude, Jon attests that his sister Arya, who is not yet ten years old, could tear Samwell apart in one-on-one combat. Certainly, Maester Aemon feels a sense of responsibility to protect innocent recruits from an abusive, cruel bully like Thorne [or Arya?].

Chett inserts himself into the discussion before Maester Aemon has a moment to respond to Jon’s discourse, and Chett has not much good to say about Samwell, “Chett could stand no more. ‘I've seen this fat boy in the common hall,’ he said. ‘He is a pig, and a hopeless craven as well, if what you say is true’".

Ever the diplomat, Maester Aemon invites Chett to offer a solution for Samwell’s situation. "Tell me, Chett, what would you have us do with such a boy?"

Maester Aemon deliberately asks to hear Chett’s opinion as a foil that will emphasize the compassion and humanity innate in Jon Snow’s solution for Samwell’s future as a black brother.

Chett feels that the Wall is not a place for the weak, and that Ser Alliser Thorne “shall make a man of him or kill him, as the gods will” (450).

Jon denounces Chett’s observation as “stupid” and then Jon Snow inhales a deep breath as he prepares for his next strategy to convince Maester Aemon to his side. Jon speaks to the Maester Aemon on a personal level, and he makes the Maester’s chain the subject of his argument, recalling his own learning from Winterfell’s Maester Luwin. To quell the curiosity of Jon when he was younger, Maester Luwin explained why he wears a chain about his throat [Ethos].

When Jon mentions the chain, Maester Aemon’s fingers touch his own chain as if in response to the story, so Jon continues with his reasoning by comparing the different metal links forged on the chain with the different types of “recruits” needed to man the Wall successfully.

First, Jon remembers Maester Luwin telling him that a maester’s collar is “made of chain to remind him that he is sworn to serve” (450). Second, when Jon asks him why each link is a different metal when a silver chain would look finer against the Maester’s grey robes, Maester Luwin explained that a “maester forges his chain with study” (450). That is, each “link” represents a different type of learning. Gold represents money just as “silver” represents healing. Third, after sharing more metals and their corresponding areas of study, Jon artfully explains that “a chain needs all sorts of metals, and a land needs all sorts of people” (450), which means that two metal links alone cannot a chain make. [Ethos]

Maester Aemon smiles and asks so? Jon replies:

"The Night's Watch needs all sorts too. Why else have rangers and stewards and builders? Lord Randyll couldn't make Sam a warrior, and Ser Alliser won't either. You can't hammer tin into iron, no matter how hard you beat it, but that doesn't mean tin is useless. Why shouldn't Sam be a steward?"

Jon hopes to engage Maester Luwin by asking him why Samwell cannot fill the position of “steward”, but Chett intervenes once again to expound upon all that he Chett does that Samwell is not equipped to manage.

"I'm a steward. You think it's easy work, fit for cowards? The order of stewards keeps the Watch alive. We hunt and farm, tend the horses, milk the cows, gather firewood, cook the meals. Who do you think makes your clothing? Who brings up supplies from the south? The stewards."

Chett listens to Maester Aemon and Jon’s discussion, and he evidently resents Jon promoting Samwell Tarly as a candidate for a steward, especially because Chett feels threatened that Samwell might replace him as Maester Aemon’s steward. Furthermore, Chett takes offense at Jon’s implication that a fat craven is well-suited to fill the same position as Chett is qualified to fill.

Master Aemon also quizzes Jon, asking him if Samwell can hunt, plow a field, drive a wagon, sail a ship, or butcher a cow. So Jon retakes control of his persuasive argument to emphasize what Samwell CAN DO instead of compiling a list of what he cannot do. Jon presents facts about Samwell’s potential value to the Night’s Watch and even Maester Aemon especially, for in the role of “steward” Samwell has exceptional skills as the result of education: he can do sums, read, and write.

Jon makes sure to point out that Maester Aemon’s present stewards Chett and Clydas are not equipped as Samuel to meet Maester Aemon’s needs. Moreover, Jon attests that Samwell is good with animals and he will be able to work with the ravens. As evidence Jon testifies that Sam gets along well with Ghost; therefore, Samwell will get along with the ravens too.

Jon closes his persuasive argument by saying, “The Night's Watch needs every man. Why kill one, to no end? Make use of him instead." Interestingly, Jon Snow’s source material for his argument that the NW has need of many and various men to fill a plethora of duties is borrowed from Donal Noye’s early advice to Jon Snow that the Night’s Watch needs every man: “The Watch has need of every man it can get” (181).

Maester Aemon closes his eyes to consider Jon’s plea, then compliments Jon on his winning words: "Maester Luwin taught you well, Jon Snow. Your mind is as deft as your blade, it would seem."

Maester Aemon does not satisfy Jon with a definite answer on this night. He promises that he will think on it. However, it is evident that Jon Snow excels in convincing others to his cause, despite his youth and inexperience.

[Julia H.]

JON VII

Overview

With the help of Ghost, the men of the Night’s Watch find the dead bodies of some of the rangers who had been with Benjen Stark. The corpses seem to be strange in several ways, and Mormont decides to take them to Castle Black. When they get back, they receive news of the king’s death and Eddard Stark’s imprisonment. Jon is devastated. Most of the black brothers are sympathetic, but Thorne taunts Jon, and Jon nearly kills him. At night, confined to his sleeping cell, Jon notices Ghost’s agitation as a wight steals up to the Lord Commander’s chambers. Jon and Ghost (with some help from the raven) save Mormont’s life.

Observations

- A chapter exceptionally rich in direwolf motifs.

- The night before the attack of the undead, Jon’s crypt dream includes a new detail: the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves.

Analysis

A Direwolf with a Purpose

I’d like to reach back to the end of the previous Jon chapter and even to the earlier chapters we analysed. In Bran I, Jon establishes a connection between the direwolves and the supernatural powers, effectively saving five little wolf pups. Then he receives Ghost. Later Jon decides to join the Night’s Watch. Tyrion ridicules the “noble calling” – and Ghost attacks him. Before taking the vow, Jon rides out to think about his future. Ghost leaves him alone but reappears by his side when Jon has decided to say the words that cannot be unsaid any more. Jon takes his vow in front of the weirwoods. After the ceremony,

“suddenly Ghost was back, stalking softly between two weirwoods. White fur and red eyes, Jon realized, disquieted. Like the trees…

That is the moment when Ghost calls the black brothers’ attention to the wights, and this is how our chapter begins.

The timing is great.

The purpose of the above recapitulation is to show that Ghost definitely seems to have an agenda here. If the Stark children were meant to have the pups, then Jon was also meant to join the Night’s Watch, and he was probably meant to notice the connection between Ghost and the weirwood. As soon as Jon has taken the vow, Ghost gets to what we might call point 2 on his agenda: To tell Jon why the Night’s Watch and the realm need him.

“Ghost is different.”

While the black brothers examine the wights and notice how they are different from usual corpses, the observant reader can also notice (along with Jon and Sam) that Ghost is indeed a very special sort of animal. The horses and the dogs (dogs again!) can sense that something is wrong with the corpses and (along with Samwell Tarly) they do not hide their fear.

The horses did not like the feel of the place. For that matter, neither did Jon.

The dogs liked it least of all. Ghost had led the party here; the pack of hounds had been useless.

The rangers seem to be uneasy as well, but they don’t show their fear as the animals do, so we can’t tell how exactly they are feeling – and Sam Tarly is, of course, always afraid. What about Ghost? Would a magical animal be afraid of magic? We only see that Ghost apparently knows what he is doing, he has a purpose, and he dares to “take the lead” where other animals fear to tread. This may be seen as a similarity between Ghost and the future Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch: Jon will also lead his brothers to “places” where other leaders (“the hounds”?) are afraid to go - like the alliance with the wildlings.

The Crypt Dream Again

In the middle of the scene, we have a flashback to the latest version of Jon’s crypt dream. There, too, Jon feels threatened by the dead. Ghost, as always, tries to comfort him, but the “deep sense of terror” remains.

Ghost leapt up on the bed to nuzzle at his face (…)

Ghost totally seems to know what to do and when. A scene within another scene, and both have death and fear as their main themes. Ghost tries to assuage Jon’s fear of the “dead kings” - of the “dead past”, perhaps, which Jon will have to face one day. In the larger scene, Ghost helps not only Jon but the other black brothers face their fears.

Jon could have told him. He knew, they all knew, yet no man of them would say the words. The Others are only a story, a tale to make children shiver.

The men of the Night’s Watch are in denial of the horrible truth, still insisting that they have no worse enemies than the wildlings beyond the Wall, although the truth is staring them in the face.

Eyes and Ears

“What good are eyes if they are shut?”

Interestingly, it is the “craven” Samwell Tarly who speaks up first and points out what they all should have seen at once. Sam can only do that because he has taken a look at the corpses – and it was Jon who encouraged him to do it, just as he had encouraged Bran not to look away in the first chapter. He also said that Samwell Tarly was Maester Aemon’s eyes. Looking and seeing is another important theme with Jon, and perhaps Ghost’s red weirwood eyes are significant in this respect, too. The weirwoods are a means of seeing, after all.

Someone whispered

Jon squatted beside Ghost.

“Burn them,” someone whispered. One of the rangers; Jon could not have said who. “Yes, burn them,” a second voice urged.

Who is whispering those words? Jon is not the only one who hears them, at least the Old Bear hears them, too, but it still seems significant that Jon squats beside Ghost before hearing the whisper. After opening their eyes, they have to open their ears, too, and hear the advice whispered in the woods. Sadly, the Old Bear does not realize the wisdom of the whispered words (and not even Jon realizes where the whisper is coming from), and decides to take the corpses to Castle Black.

Direwolf as Comfort

Ghost ran with them for a while and then vanished among the trees. Without the direwolf, Jon felt almost naked.

After Jon hears of Lord Stark’s imprisonment:

The rest of the afternoon passed as if in a dream. Jon could not have said where he walked, what he did, who he spoke with. Ghost was with him, he knew that much. The silent presence of the direwolf gave him comfort.

The “as if in a dream” phrase reminds me of Jon’s crypt dream again. He saw the dead kings come stumbling out of their graves. Ned had also seen the dead of Winterfell in a dream and felt their anger.

Ghost seems to feel when Jon needs him – he never goes hunting when Jon is upset or afraid.

The girls do not even have that much, he thought. Their wolves might have kept them safe, but Lady is dead and Nymeria’s lost, they’re alone.

Now this is interesting. Has Jon been in active correspondence with Ned or Robb perhaps? Or does he know of Lady and Nymeria through wolf dreams? If it is the latter, then he has pretty much understood and accepted that these dreams show him the truth, but the reader hasn’t really been told about it.

I wonder what everyone thinks…

It is also typical that even in this state, Jon thinks of his siblings. He can also perfectly understand what it must be like to be left alone without a direwolf. He himself felt “almost naked” when Ghost left them for a while beyond the Wall. The girls don’t have the protection and the comfort that a direwolf could provide.

Disgraced

After Thorne has woken the dragon :P , Jon is chastised, disarmed and confined to his sleeping cell.

(…) but the Old Bear did relent and permit him Ghost, so he was not utterly alone.

Unknowingly, the Old Bear saved his own life with this compassionate decision, which, I think must have been based on two factors:

1) There is no way the Old Bear could regard Ghost as your average pet after what happened earlier that day. “Ghost is different”, as Jon said. If we stop for a minute, we can try to imagine how Jon’s image must have been boosted that day as the owner of the only animal that was not afraid of the suspicious corpses. It must have been clear that Ghost insisted on being close to Jon and that they belonged together. The Old Bear was wise enough not to attempt to separate them.

2) The Old Bear berated Jon for what Jon had done, but he is not truly hostile towards him. Their situations at the moment mirror each other: Mormont is “mourning” for a son who disgraced his name, Jon is traumatized by the idea of his father being named a traitor. Mormont may also compare the attitudes of two sons: Jorah, the trueborn heir, who had come into his inheritance while his father was still alive, tainted his father’s name by his action, while Jon, the bastard who had been sent to the Wall, would have been able to kill in defence of his father’s reputation.

“My father is no traitor,” he told the direwolf when the rest had gone. Ghost looked at him in silence.

Even in his own desperate situation, Jon is thinking of his father’s disgrace. Ghost listens to him in silence – it looks like a sort of “active listening” technique with a therapeutic purpose.

The Attack

Ghost is trying to open the door, Ghost is upset, Ghost even shows his fangs to Jon. Is Ghost angry with Jon for being so “slow” for failing to open his eyes and ears? Or is he just trying to communicate the danger to him in this way, too?

Ghost already knows what is going on as Jon is beginning to realize it. They run up to Mormont’s chambers, following the screams of the raven. Ghost can see (or smell) in the darkness, Jon cannot, so Ghost attacks the wight first. Jon then saves Ghost’s life and afterwards Ghost saves Jon’s life, too.

The sword, where was the sword? He’d lost the damned sword!

Sorry, perhaps off topic a bit, but I find this line both hilarious and heavy with … foreshadowing? The concept of the sword is so loaded with symbolism in the novel, and we know that Jon will actually get a new sword after this scene. Perhaps that’s the moment where the Old Gods suddenly remember that the boy needs a decent sword at last. :idea:

In the end though, it is not a sword that puts an end to the fight, but fire. The advice that was whispered during the day is now screamed:

“Burn!” the raven cawed. “Burn, burn, burn!”

Jon lights a fire...

“Ghost!” he shouted.

Even as Jon plunges his hands into the flames, he can still think of the safety of Ghost. At the same time, Ghost hears his command and obeys him even as he is ripping a corpse apart.

Jon’s weapon is fire. With flames in his hand and Ghost by his side, he is praying to the gods, please, please, let it burn.

[evita mgfs]

JON VII

Overview

With the help of Ghost, the men of the Night’s Watch find the dead bodies of some of the rangers who had been with Benjen Stark. The corpses seem to be strange in several ways, and Mormont decides to take them to Castle Black. When they get back, they receive news of the king’s death and Eddard Stark’s imprisonment. Jon is devastated. Most of the black brothers are sympathetic, but Thorne taunts Jon, and Jon nearly kills him. At night, confined to his sleeping cell, Jon notices Ghost’s agitation as a wight steals up to the Lord Commander’s chambers. Jon and Ghost (with some help from the raven) save Mormont’s life.

snip

:bowdown: :bowdown: Excellent analysis. I especially enjoyed how you studied the bond between Jon and Ghost. It is that aspect of Martin's writing that I came to love - how he creates and sustains the growing affections between Jon and Ghost.

One thing that your commentary brought to mind is how similar certain aspects are to Jon's final scene in ADwD. Jon has a problem grasping his sword when the attack ensues - and he calls for Ghost.

I often wonder about Othor trying to push his fist down Jon's throat. Why? Is he trying to take his voice?

Jon, at this point, cannot see in the dark; however, Arya and Rickon can - or will - by the end of AGoT. You also make clear how important it is to "open" the eyes so that he - or whoever - can see. Jon's eyes are open in a literal sense, but metaphorically, he is in the dark. He seeks enlightenment - he wants to know the truth about his mother, and so much more. Yet, part of him is afraid to look, to see the truth.

This symbolic blindness makes Ygritte's refrain "You know nothing, Jon Snow!" even more meaningful. He refuses to "see" the truth when Mel warns him of "daggers in the dark". He sadly knows very little toward the end of ADwD, which is in sharp contrast to his keen perceptivity in AGoT. a trait that both Bran and Benjen ascribe to him.

Fine job! I appreciate your insight and thoughtful analysis.

[Julia H.]

Thank you, evita mgfs!

I really like the comparison you suggest between this AGoT scene in the Lord Commander's Tower and the last Jon scene in ADwD. The sword is definitely a parallel. Also, here we have a (dead) brother of the NW trying to kill the Lord Commander, while there we have several (living) black brothers trying to kill the Lord Commander. The sword is no use in either case. Ghost, judging by this scene, is. In AGoT, Jon and Ghost were confined to Jon's sleeping cell and guarded before the fight, but together they got out. In ADwD, Ghost is locked up by Jon, and he will have to get out without Jon's help.

Seeing is a great theme in this chapter. This is the point where the men of the NW cannot delude themselves any longer, they have to face reality. Just as Sam is Maester Aemon's eyes, Ghost seems to be Jon's "eyes" in the darkness, in a metaphorical sense.

[evita mgfs]

Thank you, evita mgfs!

I really like the comparison you suggest between this AGoT scene in the Lord Commander's Tower and the last Jon scene in ADwD. The sword is definitely a parallel. Also, here we have a (dead) brother of the NW trying to kill the Lord Commander, while there we have several (living) black brothers trying to kill the Lord Commander. The sword is no use in either case. Ghost, judging by this scene, is. In AGoT, Jon and Ghost were confined to Jon's sleeping cell and guarded before the fight, but together they got out. In ADwD, Ghost is locked up by Jon, and he will have to get out without Jon's help.

Seeing is a great theme in this chapter. This is the point where the men of the NW cannot delude themselves any longer, they have to face reality. Just as Sam is Maester Aemon's eyes, Ghost seems to be Jon's "eyes" in the darkness, in a metaphorical sense.

Wow! Good call with Maester Aemon's eyes/Sam and Ghost/Jon. If Jon wargs Ghost, he will literally be "seeing" through the eyes of his direwolf.

What is your theory about how Ghost escapes? The dog-lover in me has devoted quite a bit of thought to Ghost's freedom- I even found possible hints as to what the white wolf will do. Unlike many others on the Forum, I do not think Ghost must die to resurrect Jon Snow. I cannot believe how many people are predicting such a tragedy.

[if you see Ghost dying to save Jon, I will forgive you!]

The first thing pretty Jon Snow does when he wakes – regularly – is open the window to allow Mormont’s raven access to the outside. LC Snow usually keeps the window opened throughout the day for his free-ranging bird.

In Catelyn’s POV early in AGoT, she discloses Ned’s habit of opening his bedchamber wimdow to invite in the refreshing cold air of the north. Likewise, Jon finds the cool breeze refreshing, just like his “father” – an affinity for the cold seems to be a Stark thing [and the Other’s?].

Ghost/Jon will exit, and the snow drifts accumulated throughout the day will buffer Ghost’s leap. Ghost’s traveling companion will be Mormont’s raven. Together, they will head for the Cave of Skulls.

I was reading some of your fine work posted in Lucifer means Lightbringer’s thread on astronomy. If I remember correctly, you were discussing Aristotle in capacity far different than my ethos, pathos, etc.

You are holding out on me! You apparently have a background in such things – yes?

I’m being silly. But I did want to compliment your work. I am eager to read more!

[Julia H.]

Thanks again! :) I have a university degree in literature. Though I'm not an expert in Aristotle or philosophy, I have some background knowledge. I think the poetry versus history theme comes up in A Song of Ice and Fire a couple of times - we even have the phrase "a bard's truth".

Let me take the opportunity to say that I read your essay above about Aristotle's Rhetoric and Jon's speech to Maester Aemon, although I haven't got round to responding to it yet. I have always had the feeling that Jon is a charismatic "orator", who is able to convince his audience (provided the audience in question is willing to listen), and it was a wonderful idea to analyse his speech on the basis of those principles of rhetoric (thank you for sharing it with us!), and I've been actually thinking about it a lot.

It shows that Martin must have intended Jon to be seen (by the reader) as a skilled orator, which is another necessary quality of any leader, and even more so in a world where a leader doesn't have a PR team or a communication manager. (A great example is Mormont's speech beyond the Wall, when the Others are coming. His speech gives courage to his men in the face of a danger not seen for thousands of years, and even those who were plotting to kill him are ready to follow him.) I don't know if you have done a similar analysis of Jon's speech on the Wall to Old Flint, the Norrey, Marsh, Yarwick and Clydas in ADwD. That also seems to be a speech that is worth analysing, probably structurally as well as in terms of contents.

I wonder if Jon is a natural or if he and his brothers were taught the principles of rhetoric in Winterfell. After all, they learned arithmetic and astronomy, so why not the other liberal arts of medieval European universities (with the exception of music perhaps)? The application of Aristotelian principles may imply a strong parallel between learning in medieval Europe and learning in Westeros.

Back to direwolves and to how Ghost may escape... I have considered the idea that someone may just let him out, but now that you are saying it, I agree that he may get out on his own. The open window is a possibility. On the other hand, the text doesn't say that Jon actually locked the door (with a key). Ghost is usually obedient, so Jon may not have thought of that necessity, and otherwise his chambers are guarded, so there may not even be locks and keys. After all, in the present AGOT chapter, Jon was ordered to stay in his sleeping cell to wait for the officers' decision and then they placed a guard outside his door to make certain he obeyed.

When Ghost alerts him to what is going on outside, he is also trying to open the door. He can't do that, but Jon opens the door easily enough:

He grabbed the handle and pulled it inward.

So we have guards instead of locks. In ADwD, Ghost is a much bigger wolf than in AGoT. Now, there are big dogs that can reach a door handle standing on their hind legs and open the door. Why couldn't ADwD Ghost do that, especially when he can sense Jon calling him? If the door opens inward, it may be a bit of a problem, but Ghost is strong and he will be extremely motivated, too...

[evita mgfs]

Thanks again! :) I have a university degree in literature. Though I'm not an expert in Aristotle or philosophy, I have some background knowledge. I think the poetry versus history theme comes up in A Song of Ice and Fire a couple of times - we even have the phrase "a bard's truth".

Let me take the opportunity to say that I read your essay above about Aristotle's Rhetoric and Jon's speech to Maester Aemon, although I haven't got round to responding to it yet. I have always had the feeling that Jon is a charismatic "orator", who is able to convince his audience (provided the audience in question is willing to listen), and it was a wonderful idea to analyse his speech on the basis of those principles of rhetoric (thank you for sharing it with us!), and I've been actually thinking about it a lot.

It shows that Martin must have intended Jon to be seen (by the reader) as a skilled orator, which is another necessary quality of any leader, and even more so in a world where a leader doesn't have a PR team or a communication manager. (A great example is Mormont's speech beyond the Wall, when the Others are coming. His speech gives courage to his men in the face of a danger not seen for thousands of years, and even those who were plotting to kill him are ready to follow him.) I don't know if you have done a similar analysis of Jon's speech on the Wall to Old Flint, the Norrey, Marsh, Yarwick and Clydas in ADwD. That also seems to be a speech that is worth analysing, probably structurally as well as in terms of contents.

I wonder if Jon is a natural or if he and his brothers were taught the principles of rhetoric in Winterfell. After all, they learned arithmetic and astronomy, so why not the other liberal arts of medieval European universities (with the exception of music perhaps)? The application of Aristotelian principles may imply a strong parallel between learning in medieval Europe and learning in Westeros.

Back to direwolves and to how Ghost may escape... I have considered the idea that someone may just let him out, but now that you are saying it, I agree that he may get out on his own. The open window is a possibility. On the other hand, the text doesn't say that Jon actually locked the door (with a key). Ghost is usually obedient, so Jon may not have thought of that necessity, and otherwise his chambers are guarded, so there may not even be locks and keys. After all, in the present AGOT chapter, Jon was ordered to stay in his sleeping cell to wait for the officers' decision and then they placed a guard outside his door to make certain he obeyed.

When Ghost alerts him to what is going on outside, he is also trying to open the door. He can't do that, but Jon opens the door easily enough:

He grabbed the handle and pulled it inward.

So we have guards instead of locks. In ADwD, Ghost is a much bigger wolf than in AGoT. Now, there are big dogs that can reach a door handle standing on their hind legs and open the door. Why couldn't ADwD Ghost do that, especially when he can sense Jon calling him? If the door opens inward, it may be a bit of a problem, but Ghost is strong and he will be extremely motivated, too...

:bowdown: :bowdown: THANK YOU for the lovely response!

I very much enjoyed your reasoning regarding Ghost opening the door himself. You obviously did some tracing yourself to recall that the doors open inward and have no keys. You are SPOT ON! I never thought of that – but no one ever says, “Where’s my room key, darn! It must have fell out of my pocket on the last ranging – when those Others and their army attacked.”

Can you imagine Dolorous Edd waxing poetic about his lost key? [He is a riot! I miss Martin’s humor in Edd and Tormund in the HBO show!]

Anyway, all of my dogs know how to open the bathroom door when I am taking too long! Moses, our 175 pound golden, head butts the door. He loves to head butt things – when I fill the feed bowl, he head butts the elevated tray until he empties all the food onto the floor!

I remember when I used to read and post in the Heresy thread – they insisted that if Jon wargs Ghost, that Ghost would “flip” because Jon only warged him in dreams. So – Ghost would react like Thistle does when V6S tries to skinchange with her. Then, they insisted that Jon would need a spirit guide to help him on his journey in Ghost since Jon is an inexperienced warg. I had some problems with their reasoning, but that is not why I left and will never go back [that is another story!]

I started to read and post in the HBO Forums – now, maybe it is the threads I choose to read and post in, but those show watchers are funny. They do not take themselves as seriously as canon Martineers, methinks. Anyways, they all think that if Jon wargs Ghost or returns as undead Jon, that Ghost/Jon will go after Ollie and seek vengeance.

I pointed out that the Stark way is “forgiveness”, and that when Ghost/Jon meets up with Ollie, he will lick his hand, a sign of forgiveness. So, a poster replied that if Ghost/Jon is half Targ, Ghost/Jon WILL EAT Ollie. I said, “No, if Ghost/Jon is half Targ, he will come upon Ollie and breathe fire on him, burning him to a crisp, accidentally, of course. Ghost/Jon will think he is going to “burp” – and instead, he will shoot flame from his mouth!” [bTW/Moses loves to get in my face and burp! If my hubby and I did not laugh at his antics, he probably would not continue his Mosey Ways!] Here’s a picture of Moses

and Bella http://ladyevyta.tumblr.com/post/36331671428/moses-sacking-out-moses-working-the-crowd

What I love about this thread is its focus on the direwolves. Not only does Martin capture the special bond between man and beast, but all of the posters here capture what Martin conveys.

Later, when your reread gets to the crypts – Bran and Maester Luwin go down looking for Ned – well, I have written some things about Rickon and his direwolf bond with Shaggy – I hope to share. That is, if the poster doesn’t cover it.

Regarding Jon’s oratory skills, I have not analyzed his other speeches as closely – I didn’t get there yet! I am still tracing the blood motif in AGoT! I will make this observation – what happens to Jon’s speaking skills in ADwD? His final speech is uninspiring – not like Jon at all. :dunno:

Did you mention the astronomy lessons in LuciferMeansLightbringer's threads? He'd love that! :cheers:

[bemused]

I'm just nipping in to hark back to Othor, because while working on something else,I found an odd tidbit in ADWD that might connect. 

 

 Here's Jon and Othor :

 

He’d lost the damned sword! When he opened his mouth to scream, the wight jammed its black corpse fingers into Jon’s mouth. Gagging, he tried to shove it off, but the dead man was too heavy. Its hand forced itself farther down his throat, icy cold, choking him.

 

Othor is one handed and weaponless.. but why not a finger to Jon's eye? Is he truly trying to choke Jon?

 

Here's Daario's boastful report to Dany in ADWD :

 

" This blood is not mine. One of my serjeants said we should go over to the Yunkai’i, so I reached down his throat and pulled his heart out.... "

 

Daario has two very effective cutting weapons which would provide a more efficient way of removing the man's heart. In some matters, Daario is given to exaggeration, so I don't think this should be taken seriously... but let's face it, it's a suspiciously odd exaggeration.

 

However, it would make some sense in the case of Othor. As a wight, he has focus and persistence, but no real critical thought. It's not obvious at that point of the narrative, but we will come to have good reason to believe that there is some magic quotient in Jon's Stark blood that opposes the Others (Others / Othor - what's in a name...) ; magic that is tied to the magic in the Wall and enables Jon's bond with Ghost. His heart is what keeps his blood and the magic circulating.

 

I hope to be chiming in more, but I've promised myself that I'll stick to finishing a couple of projects I've been meaning to develop for eons, first. (My problem is, I want to discuss everything.) ;)

 

ETA: Yoicks! I just realised I'd better add this (Love how these thoughts sneak up on you) .. Going back to Daario's story , he flings the heart in the face of his other adversaries...

 

" ... I meant to bring it to you as a gift for my silver queen, but four of the Cats cut me off and came snarling and spitting after me. One almost caught me, so I threw the heart into his face.”

 

It occurs to me that with Jon having been identified by Bloodraven / CoTF / the old gods as their warrior (hero?), having his heart flung in their collective face might be a terrible blow - one very difficult to rebound from, what with time being so vital to their efforts.

[evita mgfs]

 

I'm just nipping in to hark back to Othor, because while working on something else,I found an odd tidbit in ADWD that might connect. 

 

 Here's Jon and Othor :

 

He’d lost the damned sword! When he opened his mouth to scream, the wight jammed its black corpse fingers into Jon’s mouth. Gagging, he tried to shove it off, but the dead man was too heavy. Its hand forced itself farther down his throat, icy cold, choking him.

 

Othor is one handed and weaponless.. but why not a finger to Jon's eye? Is he truly trying to choke Jon?

 

Here's Daario's boastful report to Dany in ADWD :

 

" This blood is not mine. One of my serjeants said we should go over to the Yunkai’i, so I reached down his throat and pulled his heart out.... "

 

Daario has two very effective cutting weapons which would provide a more efficient way of removing the man's heart. In some matters, Daario is given to exaggeration, so I don't think this should be taken seriously... but let's face it, it's a suspiciously odd exaggeration.

 

However, it would make some sense in the case of Othor. As a wight, he has focus and persistence, but no real critical thought. It's not obvious at that point of the narrative, but we will come to have good reason to believe that there is some magic quotient in Jon's Stark blood that opposes the Others (Others / Othor - what's in a name...) ; magic that is tied to the magic in the Wall and enables Jon's bond with Ghost. His heart is what keeps his blood and the magic circulating.

 

I hope to be chiming in more, but I've promised myself that I'll stick to finishing a couple of projects I've been meaning to develop for eons, first. (My problem is, I want to discuss everything.) ;)

 

ETA: Yoicks! I just realised I'd better add this (Love how these thoughts sneak up on you) .. Going back to Daario's story , he flings the heart in the face of his other adversaries...

 

" ... I meant to bring it to you as a gift for my silver queen, but four of the Cats cut me off and came snarling and spitting after me. One almost caught me, so I threw the heart into his face.”

 

It occurs to me that with Jon having been identified by Bloodraven / CoTF / the old gods as their warrior (hero?), having his heart flung in their collective face might be a terrible blow - one very difficult to rebound from, what with time being so vital to their efforts.

 

 BEMUSED:  THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

:bowdown:  :bowdown:

This was wonderful, and it works absolutely perfectly with a theory I have been nursing forever - OTHOR tries to shove his fist down Snow's throat!  Is it Jon's heart he wants?

 

I have written about this odd attack, postulating what Othor is trying to do, linking it to Golding's Lord of the Flies and Conrad's Heart of Darkness - both novels explore the "darkness" - or EVIL - that dwells in the hearts of men, and symbolically accessed via the MOUTH!  Silly as it may seem, I have traced the mouth motif in Martin's work - and even the entrances to many places are in the shape of a mouth, or referred to a mouth metaphorically - Bran's Cave of Skulls, the door to the House of the Undying, etc.  Arya even enters the mouths of dragons in AGoT.

 

Your "find" gets my juices going - gives me lots of ideas.  I am not sure if the mouth motif suggests accessing evil with the intention of defeating it, or something else - or many different things.  But the passage you share is MOST intriguing!a

 

When  I use it, and I am sure I will, I will cite my source - you Bemused!

 

Once again, your work floors me!  Good find!

 

I hope you get your projects done so that we can pick each other's brains!  :cheers:  I have lots of projects as well - and then I read a post like yours, and I just go Bananas! :bang:

[Julia H.]

 

 I will make this observation – what happens to Jon’s speaking skills in ADwD?  His final speech is uninspiring – not like Jon at all. :dunno: 

 

I think he still has them in ADwD - there is a reason why his last speech is different.

 

 

I'm just nipping in to hark back to Othor, because while working on something else,I found an odd tidbit in ADWD that might connect. 

 

 Here's Jon and Othor :

 

He’d lost the damned sword! When he opened his mouth to scream, the wight jammed its black corpse fingers into Jon’s mouth. Gagging, he tried to shove it off, but the dead man was too heavy. Its hand forced itself farther down his throat, icy cold, choking him.

 

Othor is one handed and weaponless.. but why not a finger to Jon's eye? Is he truly trying to choke Jon?

 

Here's Daario's boastful report to Dany in ADWD :

 

" This blood is not mine. One of my serjeants said we should go over to the Yunkai’i, so I reached down his throat and pulled his heart out.... "

 

Daario has two very effective cutting weapons which would provide a more efficient way of removing the man's heart. In some matters, Daario is given to exaggeration, so I don't think this should be taken seriously... but let's face it, it's a suspiciously odd exaggeration.

 

However, it would make some sense in the case of Othor. As a wight, he has focus and persistence, but no real critical thought. It's not obvious at that point of the narrative, but we will come to have good reason to believe that there is some magic quotient in Jon's Stark blood that opposes the Others (Others / Othor - what's in a name...) ; magic that is tied to the magic in the Wall and enables Jon's bond with Ghost. His heart is what keeps his blood and the magic circulating.

 

I hope to be chiming in more, but I've promised myself that I'll stick to finishing a couple of projects I've been meaning to develop for eons, first. (My problem is, I want to discuss everything.) ;)

 

ETA: Yoicks! I just realised I'd better add this (Love how these thoughts sneak up on you) .. Going back to Daario's story , he flings the heart in the face of his other adversaries...

 

" ... I meant to bring it to you as a gift for my silver queen, but four of the Cats cut me off and came snarling and spitting after me. One almost caught me, so I threw the heart into his face.”

 

It occurs to me that with Jon having been identified by Bloodraven / CoTF / the old gods as their warrior (hero?), having his heart flung in their collective face might be a terrible blow - one very difficult to rebound from, what with time being so vital to their efforts.

 

 

Nice to see you over here, Bemused, now as ever!  :cheers:

 

Exciting connection!

 

So who was then Othor's main target? The Old Bear or Jon? Othor passed Jon's cell while going to Mormont's chambers, he killed his guard, too, but didn't enter the cell. If Jon was the (main) target, then it must have been Ghost's presence at the door that stopped Othor, who had no choice then but to go on to the Old Bear's chambers. 

[bemused]

I guess I still think Mormont would have been the main target.

 

Just musing, here, but what if Jon had been an unknown until he and wight Othor were face to face? I mean, unknown to whatever magic controls the wight ?

 

In close proximity one magic might recognise the other spontaneously much in the same way one skinchanger will sense another (wargs, anyway). It's hard to know how much direct control any given wight might be under... But I think you're probably right about Ghost's presence being a barrier, whether Jon was a foreordained target or not.

 

( Thanks. Nice to be here. I hope to be more often after I get Daario off my chest. :D )

[Harlaw's Book the Sequel]

Sorry for the long delay, everyone.  Real life got in the way as usual.  Without any further ado...

 

 

 

Bran VI

 

Summary

 

While Robb prepares to march to war, Bran receives advice from Osha in the godswood.

 

Observations

• The rifts formed among the Stark brothers in the previous Bran chapter have deepened to point where each of them have their own storyline in this chapter.  While the estrangement among them doesn’t seem as bad what the Lannister siblings will later face or even as serious as Sansa and Arya’s strained relationship, in hindsight I think the Stark brothers’ inability to work together or take each seriously is a factor that needs to be considered when mulling over the reasons for the Starks’ downfall.
•  Robb says Cat would skin him for a pelt if he let anything happen to Bran.     
• Another reference is made to horses being uneasy around direwolves, but it’s also mentioned horses can get used to the wolves’ presence –a hint that it’s possible for the mundane and the magical to coexist?
• Bran turns to his father’s gods in these turbulent times and feels safe that the gods are watching over him
  • Summer and Bran both feel a moment of peace while in the godswood
• Summer’s eyes are described as “smoldering like liquid gold.”
•  Roose Bolton and Robett Glover might be another smiler and slayer pair.  
• Robb’s shield features the snarling face of a direwolf.

 

Analysis

The Karstarks

• It feels appropriate to open a chapter featuring the Stark brothers’ estrangement with the arrival of a cadet branch that has holdings far away and became very different from the primary family line.
•  Bran doesn’t think they look like Starks.  They’re wilder, hairer, etc.  Their description seems reminiscent of Ned’s description of the Kings’ of winter.  On one hand, Ned is relieved the current Starks are no longer like the Starks of old.  One the other hand, does this mean the Starks have lost a valuable part of their house identity?  Are the Karstarks more Starklike than the Starks?
• The Karstarks wear skins of wolf, bear, and seal.  We’ve seen wolves and bears mentioned together before.  Members of House Farwynd in the Iron Islands are reputed to skinchange into sea animals.  So are the Karstarks wearing these particular animals something akin to the theories that Boltons flay and wear human flesh to emulate/mock skinchanging; therefore, hinting at the future conflict between Stark and Karstark?  Or is it hinting that the Karstarks could possibly be skinchangers too?

 

Wild as a winter storm Rickon

• All of these changes have led to Rickon run away to the Winterfell crypts
  • Rickon slashes at people with a rusted sword taken from a dead king
    • Taking a leaf from evita mgfs’ book, I started wondering just how heavy are those swords?  IIRC they're heavy, and Rickon’s three.  So for him to grab one seems like an impressive display of strength.  Is it due to the direwolf bond?  I’ve seen threads about identifying Rickon and Jon as berserkers, and I’ve agreed with them.  Though in Jon's case, I’ve tended to think his berserker moments were due to “waking the dragon,” but now I’m wondering if it comes from the Stark side.  @bemused, you’ve written awesome threads on the subject.  Any thoughts?  
  • Shaggy is a green-eyed demon who bites Gage and tears a chunk of flesh from Mikken’s thigh.
    • The situation is resolved when Robb takes Grey Wind down to bring Rickon and Shaggy under control.  However, Farlen chains Shaggy to the kennels, and Rickon cries all the more for being without him.
    • The direwolf-dog distinction isn’t explicitly mentioned, but it seems like Shaggy’s punishment is to be treated like a dog.
    •  Despite Shaggy’s viciousness, Grey Wind is able to assert dominance.  GRRM likes demonstrating how discipline trumps ferocity.  It also ties into why the Greatjon –despite being the loudest and actually threatening harm –is not as scary as quiet Roose Bolton

Robb the Lord

• Robb has deal with each of his bannermen.  In doing so, Bran thinks Robb is acting much like how Ned would have.  It’s also reminiscent in how Jon gets the other recruits to lay off Sam, but it's also an inversion too. In Jon's chapter the focus was on Jon's tactics.  Here it's the bannermen trying different tactics on Robb.  @evita mgfs, I was definitely thinking about your post while rereading this passage
  •  Something I’ve long wondered is whether, besides the no king pov rule, the reason Robb isn’t a POV is because at this point in the series Robb and Jon’s voices were too similar.
•  The highlight of Robb’s dealings is when Greatjon Umber draws steel and Grey Wind bites of two of his fingers.
  •  Robb does this deliberately.  
  • Even though this is a well-loved moment, does Robb go to far?  The gambit works, but was it the right way to handle the situation?  Would Ned and Cat approve?  I’m inclined to think not.
  • All the Starks seem to be pushing the boundary on what the direwolves can get away with.   
  • In the Greatjon’s mind, this cements the idea that Robb is a Stark after all.  

Sansa’s letter

• Robb’s outraged at the contents of Sansa’s letter – even asking what’s wrong with the girl.  Bran reasons it due to losing Lady.  The meaning of the comment can be interpreted a couple of ways.  One could be that Sansa is losing is her way as a Stark.  However, I think Bran offered his comment as way to make Robb sympathetic to Sansa –pointing out how much harder is it to be strong when you don’t have a direwolf with you.

Lady’s return

• Ned’s guardsmen have returned Lady to Winterfell, and she was in the lichyard where the Kings of Winter buried their faithful servants.
  • The choice of burial place indicates it’s meant to honor Lady.  It also seems like another indication of the old ways coming back.
• Lady’s brothers stalk the graveyard like restless shadows.
  • Grey Wind, Summer, and Shaggy’s grief for Lady is able to unite them for a short amount of time.

Osha

• Not entirely comfortable around the direwolves
• As promised, we’re coming back to the topic of whether Osha is a direwolf substitute.
  •  In what ways does Osha act like a direwolf?  Like the direwolf mother she came from beyond the Wall to Winterfell.  She tries to warn the Starks.  In this chapter she’s Bran’s guide to the old gods.  
    • Something I’ve harped about is that the direwolf substitutes seem to have romantic feelings toward the Stark they bond with.  So far Sandor is the most prominent direwolf substitute we seen, and I’ve brought up Ygritte.  What about with Osha, especially given the similarities between the scenes of Robb sparing Osha and Jon sparing Ygritte? I don’t think she has any romantic feelings for Robb, and I think she recognizes that the courtship rules beyond the Wall don’t apply.  But I do think that she thinks she’s in alliance with the Starks now, so while it may not be romantic, it might be that Osha more or less feels she married the Starks.  
  • Something that stood out to me this reread was Osha’s faith in the Starks.  She doesn’t believe Mance can handle the Others, but she seems confident the Starks could do something about it.  Connecting it back to the previous Bran chapter, her deference to the direwolves may be a factor in this    

[Seams]

Robb the Lord

• Robb has deal with each of his bannermen.  In doing so, Bran thinks Robb is acting much like how Ned would have.  It’s also reminiscent in how Jon gets the other recruits to lay off Sam, but it's also an inversion too. In Jon's chapter the focus was on Jon's tactics.  Here it's the bannermen trying different tactics on Robb.  @evita mgfs, I was definitely thinking about your post while rereading this passage
  •  Something I’ve long wondered is whether, besides the no king pov rule, the reason Robb isn’t a POV is because at this point in the series Robb and Jon’s voices were too similar.
•  The highlight of Robb’s dealings is when Greatjon Umber draws steel and Grey Wind bites of two of his fingers.
  •  Robb does this deliberately.  
  • Even though this is a well-loved moment, does Robb go to far?  The gambit works, but was it the right way to handle the situation?  Would Ned and Cat approve?  I’m inclined to think not.
  • All the Starks seem to be pushing the boundary on what the direwolves can get away with.   
  • In the Greatjon’s mind, this cements the idea that Robb is a Stark after all.

 

I think you have to compare Grey Wind biting off Greatjon's fingers to Stannis cutting off Davos Seaworth's fingers. Both of the victims remain loyal to their kings after being maimed, even showing some admiration for the way this punishment or discipline displayed kingly values or behavior, worthy of loyalty. I'm rusty, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Greatjon never becomes an official Hand of the King for Robb, but is definitely a right-hand-man, so to speak. Davos eventually does become Hand of the King for Stannis. It seems significant to me that both King Stannis and King-in-the-North Robb rely on close supporters who have maimed hands. (Robb also gets a lot of advice from Catelyn, whose hand is badly injured when she grabs the blade of the dagger to defend Bran.)

 

Maybe the Kings-taking-fingers pattern underscores GRRM's theme about people who have paid a price in life - those who have gone through the school of hard knocks - being the most compassionate and wise people, and the most useful advisers for a king. By contrast, Little Finger inherited "The Fingers," which turn out to be barren, rocky and relatively worthless pieces of land. The character who seems to have no soul and who is loyal to no one has worthless fingers that came to him by birth, not through difficulty or merit. (Further complicating things, it is Little Finger who orders that some of Marillion's fingers be cut off as a way of torturing a confession from him in the murder of Lysa Tully.)

 

Qhorin Halfhand provides a further example. Although Jon Snow doesn't cause him to lose his fingers, he did lose them in battle with a wildling and Jon is strongly associated with wildlings. Also, tying in to another of your good observations in this analysis, Ghost bites Qhorin on the thigh when Jon is about to kill Qhorin. You point out that Shaggydog bites Mikken, the blacksmith, on the thigh. I wonder whether a direwolf bite takes some of the "power" from the person who is bitten and transmits it to the direwolf's person? So Rickon gets some smith and cook magic when Shaggydog bites Gage and Mikken; Jon gets a piece of Qhorin Halfhand's ranging and warrior skill when Ghost bites him. Of course Nymeria has bitten Joffrey . . .

 

I think there's another character who has lost some fingers to frostbite. Maybe that foreshadows that Winter is the equivalent of a King in this world.