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ASOIAF plot taken from Babylon5


Beorn121

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sorry for the bad english not my mother tounge.



I dont know if anybody notest it.


i could not find anything about it in forums or debates.


alot of the plot in a song of ice and fire is taken from babylon5 and from an animated movie from the 80s called fire and ice.



Lets begin with that B5 copied names and plot from lord of the rings. that is well known and they dont try to hide it.


The idea of bran connected to the tree and being able to see everything in the kingdom is taken from there - drall and the machine that projects his concienceness to the universe.



The shadows - and the others or the great other.


The shadows that bring death and chaos woke up a thousend years ago and began a war against the young reaces while using them against each other.


when the shadows where defeated they went to sleep for a thousend years and now woke up again to bring death and chaos.



The one and azor ahai.


the one in made of three people who are the one.


the one that was. the one there is and the one that will be. and the minbari revolves aroind the number 3. 3 casts. 3 languages and so on. just like the dragon has 3 heads.



The rangers oath in B5 resambles the nights watch oath:


"i am a ranger"


"we walk in the dark places no one else will enter"


"we stand on the bridge, and no one may pass."


"we live for the one, we die for the one."



and theres more. any one who will watch the show will see the similarities.



as for the movie fire and ice.



there are lots of similarities.


such as:



theres a witch there that looks just like melisanre and a very big slow man like hodor.


there is the evil sorcerer necron that has frost magic and moves a giant wall of ice towards the south against the fire nation that has dragon riders and wildlings serve necron and his witch mother.



i would be happy for comments and check the facts to.




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sorry for the bad english not my mother tounge.

I dont know if anybody notest it.

i could not find anything about it in forums or debates.

alot of the plot in a song of ice and fire is taken from babylon5 and from an animated movie from the 80s called fire and ice.

Lets begin with that B5 copied names and plot from lord of the rings. that is well known and they dont try to hide it.

The idea of bran connected to the tree and being able to see everything in the kingdom is taken from there - drall and the machine that projects his concienceness to the universe.

The shadows - and the others or the great other.

The shadows that bring death and chaos woke up a thousend years ago and began a war against the young reaces while using them against each other.

when the shadows where defeated they went to sleep for a thousend years and now woke up again to bring death and chaos.

The one and azor ahai.

the one in made of three people who are the one.

the one that was. the one there is and the one that will be. and the minbari revolves aroind the number 3. 3 casts. 3 languages and so on. just like the dragon has 3 heads.

The rangers oath in B5 resambles the nights watch oath:

"i am a ranger"

"we walk in the dark places no one else will enter"

"we stand on the bridge, and no one may pass."

"we live for the one, we die for the one."

and theres more. any one who will watch the show will see the similarities.

as for the movie fire and ice.

there are lots of similarities.

such as:

theres a witch there that looks just like melisanre and a very big slow man like hodor.

there is the evil sorcerer necron that has frost magic and moves a giant wall of ice towards the south against the fire nation that has dragon riders and wildlings serve necron and his witch mother.

i would be happy for comments and check the facts to.

I'm sure GRRM has borrowed ideas from all over. He's a sci-fi writer and fan so likely he was big into B5 when it was playing. Lots of this is based on archetypes anyway, which permeate western culture. The lost prince, the hidden savior, the magical sword and so on. Back to Arthurian legend and long before.

Anyway you might be interested in reading this

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html

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I'm sure GRRM has borrowed ideas from all over. He's a sci-fi writer and fan so likely he was big into B5 when it was playing. Lots of this is based on archetypes anyway, which permeate western culture. The lost prince, the hidden savior, the magical sword and so on. Back to Arthurian legend and long before.

Anyway you might be interested in reading this

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html

Thanks forthe comment,

ye i guess ur right eventually the inspiration is from older folklore what interested me is that he took some direct general plot form B5

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A game of thrones was released at 96. I think Babylon 5 was aired earlier , but not sure early enough to effect the book but GRRM may have been aware of the plot before it aired.



I suppose both are based on common themes in Sci-Fi and Fantasy. But I agree there are some very similar concepts though I didn't think about it myself.



You mentioned other similarities as well. Can give more examples? I find this rather interesting.


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Sure np,


B5 is from 94, and most of the influence i refered to is not in book 1 but in the later books.


i did not expand on drall and the machine.


the machine is like the tree that bloodraven and bran are connected to.


in B5 drall is replacing the one who is connected to the machine becouse he is getting too old, he invites drall in visions to replace him like BR and bran.the machine prolongs the life of the one connected to it and is in a deep carven underground protected by powefull defences and is very ancient.


the machine is maintained by workers one of them is over a 100 year old and reminds a litle how leaf and the children re helping BR.



the war between the shadows and the vorlons reminds the war between relor and the great other and might give us a hint where the plot is going, that the humens are used by this 2 gods that war against each other and none of the gods is good for man kind, kust like the vorlons and the shadows in B5.


so that relor isnt good or bad and neither is the great other.



but who knows GRRM crtainly likes suprizes so anything can happen.

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Sure np,

B5 is from 94, and most of the influence i refered to is not in book 1 but in the later books.

i did not expand on drall and the machine.

the machine is like the tree that bloodraven and bran are connected to.

in B5 drall is replacing the one who is connected to the machine becouse he is getting too old, he invites drall in visions to replace him like BR and bran.the machine prolongs the life of the one connected to it and is in a deep carven underground protected by powefull defences and is very ancient.

the machine is maintained by workers one of them is over a 100 year old and reminds a litle how leaf and the children re helping BR.

the war between the shadows and the vorlons reminds the war between relor and the great other and might give us a hint where the plot is going, that the humens are used by this 2 gods that war against each other and none of the gods is good for man kind, kust like the vorlons and the shadows in B5.

so that relor isnt good or bad and neither is the great other.

but who knows GRRM crtainly likes suprizes so anything can happen.

Thanks. Drall's machine is incredibly similar to Bloodraven's Weirnet.

Othres vs Rhllorists fight not so much alike to Vorlons vs Shadows. But I see your point.

Great post!

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I loved B5 and I'm still pissed at Warner Brothers for its role in the B5 universe's premature death.

I thought of one other similarity. In B5, 1 out of every so many people are TP's and 1 out of every so many TP's are TK's. In ASOIAF, 1 out of every so many people are wargs, and 1 out every so many wargs are greenseers (sp?).

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I loved B5 and I'm still pissed at Warner Brothers for its role in the B5 universe's premature death.

I thought of one other similarity. In B5, 1 out of every so many people are TP's and 1 out of every so many TP's are TK's. In ASOIAF, 1 out of every so many people are wargs, and 1 out every so many wargs are greenseers (sp?).

nice. very similar indeed

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I loved B5 and I'm still pissed at Warner Brothers for its role in the B5 universe's premature death.

I thought of one other similarity. In B5, 1 out of every so many people are TP's and 1 out of every so many TP's are TK's. In ASOIAF, 1 out of every so many people are wargs, and 1 out every so many wargs are greenseers (sp?).

CGI was in it's infancy when it was made, it hasn't aged that well but the concept was ambitious and overall well executed.

Hopefully the movie reboot will do it justice.

http://screenrant.com/babylon-5-movie-reboot/

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Another similarity, in B5, building up to the Shadow War, there were a number of references to the last one as the characters rallied and prepared. In ASOIAF, the build up toward the war with the Othershas characters referring to the last Great War with the Others. In both cases, those of the present sought to learn from the past to be more successful in their war.

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I'm sure GRRM has borrowed ideas from all over. He's a sci-fi writer and fan so likely he was big into B5 when it was playing. Lots of this is based on archetypes anyway, which permeate western culture. The lost prince, the hidden savior, the magical sword and so on. Back to Arthurian legend and long before.

Anyway you might be interested in reading this

http://gameofthronesandnorsemythology.blogspot.com/2013/05/ragnarok-song-of-ice-fire.html

I haven't watched Babylon 5 but this thread got me interested in reading that link and that link is very interesting.

It is possible that Babylon 5 and ASoIaF are based on a similar mythology and this Norse mythology of Ragnarok, which I don't know too much about, is basically an eco tale - the corrupted gods and men must be cleared from the world so it can flourish anew - which is very much in line with where I see ASoIaF heading.

And yes, Fire and Ice is classic 80s Swords and Sorcery.

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