jaimereborn Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 It does seem possible - let's write it normally Q - Will the king and I have children? A - Yes. He will have 16. You will have 3. Their crowns and shrouds will be gold. When you have finished crying, the second son will strangle you. It's inconclusive but the gold has to be related to Cersie's 3 children, so it seems like the answer is steering in the direction of her second son. But the answer starts with 'he will have 16' - talking about the king, Robert. The original question also used the king as the subject. Also, isn't it 'little brother' rather than 'second son'? So it'd be: 'Yes. He will have 16. You will have 3. Their crowns and shrouds will be gold. When you have finished crying, the little brother will strangle you." I'm definitely still veering towards Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Damn open ended prophecies :D What good are they, other than getting fans to speculate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Chase Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 If it were any other prophecy forseer I would say the valonquar could be the second sons. Younger brother, second sons. To be a second son you have to be a younger brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan1213 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 We have nothing better to do than speculate, unmester. I think this is a very interesting idea. Not so sure about wight Tommen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecco78 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Interesting analysis - and I think you bring up a lot of great points and ideas....What if "there comes another" does NOT mean another QUEEN? That is Cersei's interpretation - and the reason she is so hung up on Margeary. We are putting the wording in the context of CERSEI'S memory - which could be fallible. It could be any younger more beautiful girl - Sansa, Myrcella, Arianne, Brienne (more beautiful on the inside?), etc. It even could be construed "another" = "an other"... Blew my mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecco78 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 If the prophecy is literally correct, then Cersie could be strangled by either her second son or Robert's. Who is Roberts second bastard? Anyone been keeping track of the order his 16 were born? The seed was strong indeed :D Edit - quick check reveals Edric Storm is Robert's second son. Therefore, either Tommen or Edric should strangle Cersie. Also - everyone is thinking that Tommen need's to be older, to strangle Cersie forcefully. Perhaps he won't. Cersie could be injured and he just puts her out of her misery, or he could strangle her with poison, at Margaerys behest, or any other conceivable way in which a small boy could strangle a grown woman. You could be correct. Though I don't think valonqar means "second son" per se.... I think it just means younger brother. So, anyone who is male and isn't the oldest qualifies. Also, wights are described to attack "with surprising strength," so if Tommen or anyone else of his age is wightified, they should be able to take over Cersei easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I think this is a great theory! Great insight to those who thought of this on your own. It would be a great example of irony. Throughout Feast you could feel the tension building for Tommen towards his mother. He wants to be a good boy, but his Mom is pissing him off! It doesn't seem like much but now I can't wait to re-read all the bickering between Cersei and Tommen to see if there are more clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larastone Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I will bet a billion dollars that Tommen is not the valonqar and trillion dollars that Tommen is not going to turn into a wight. No but seriously, Jaime is the valonqar. I would prefer it to be Arya because I feel like Jaime killing Cersei will come across as a "redemptive" action (which makes me gag) but the story is totally leading it to be Jaime imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I will bet a billion dollars that Tommen is not the valonqar and trillion dollars that Tommen is not going to turn into a wight. I really, really would like to see your face after you've read the seventh book (assuming the series actually gets finished). We'll get back to this conversation then. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Consider Gendry. Younger brother, and one of the children under discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 while i still think aegon is the valonqar, because of this theory, tommen is now my second pick, good post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff_Stark Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I'm not sure the prophecy will work out at all or even as we think. Cersei doesn't even have a fellatable member to bite off. We've abandoned the stallion that mounts the world. Maybe if Jaime made his choice to save Brienne, he or Tyrion or whomever the prophecy isn't prophecy. Sort of the way Mel confuses this must be with this may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckfield Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Nice theory, I've never thought of it that way before. The only thing I don't get is how the hell is Tommen going to become a wight? It seems very unlikely to me... On the other hand, he might become a different kind of zombie. A greyscale zombie, maybe? lets seeWe know Jon Connington is carrying the disease, as we learned from his last chapter in ADWD, and he's on his way to KL... When the Shy Maid was attacked by stone men on the Rhoyne, they were pretty much zombies (one of them broke his legs when he landed on their boat and yet he felt no pain). The stone men didn't fight with swords or arrows but with bare hands: From ADWD:The broken bone was speckled with brown blood, but still he lurched forward, reaching for Young Griff. His hand was grey and stiff, but blood oozed between his knuckles as he tried to close his fingers to grasp. So.. yea, they're pretty much some kind of mortal stone-zombies. And since greyscale is physically closer than the Others, maybe that's what happens to Tommen? Also, the stone men were mentioned to be "wearing shrouds": From ADWD:As the Shy Maid drew closer, Tyrion could see the shapes of stone men moving in the light, shuffling aimlessly around the lamps like slow grey moths. Some were naked, others clad in shrouds. Up until now I was pretty sure Young Griff is the valonqar, but now I consider Tommen as an equal candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Consider Gendry. Younger brother, and one of the children under discussion. Gendry isn't the younger brother, Edric is. Gendry is the younger sibling, he has 2 older sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Arya is the valonqar. They mistranslated "prince" in the prince that was promised prophecy (at least according to Aemon) and no, it is never mentioned anywhere in the text that the prophecy said "the dragon that was promised" all references point to a "prince".If they can miss the translation on "prince" then "little brother" could be just as likely.Think on how many times Arya recalls being called "little sister" it's a staple of her character.Queen Cersei is still on her list, and while I believe several of her names will get crossed off by Nymeria (Ilyn Payne is currently in the riverlands) I think Arya does the deed on Cersei herself, possibly sent by the Iron Bank or on their behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyk65 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Arya is the valonqar. They mistranslated "prince" in the prince that was promised prophecy (at least according to Aemon) and no, it is never mentioned anywhere in the text that the prophecy said "the dragon that was promised" all references point to a "prince". If they can miss the translation on "prince" then "little brother" could be just as likely. Think on how many times Arya recalls being called "little sister" it's a staple of her character. Queen Cersei is still on her list, and while I believe several of her names will get crossed off by Nymeria (Ilyn Payne is currently in the riverlands) I think Arya does the deed on Cersei herself, possibly sent by the Iron Bank or on their behalf. Or maybe Arya will have a sex-change operation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Gendry isn't the younger brother, Edric is. Gendry is the younger sibling, he has 2 older sisters. Gendry is a younger brother. Mya is the oldest. All boys born after Mya (including Gendry) are little brothers. But Gendry is far more likely than Edric (who is 12 when we meet him) to end up strangling someone to death. Valonqar means "little brother" not second son. Arya is the valonqar. They mistranslated "prince" in the prince that was promised prophecy (at least according to Aemon) and no, it is never mentioned anywhere in the text that the prophecy said "the dragon that was promised" all references point to a "prince". If they can miss the translation on "prince" then "little brother" could be just as likely. Think on how many times Arya recalls being called "little sister" it's a staple of her character. Queen Cersei is still on her list, and while I believe several of her names will get crossed off by Nymeria (Ilyn Payne is currently in the riverlands) I think Arya does the deed on Cersei herself, possibly sent by the Iron Bank or on their behalf. Elessar, Aemon specifically says the word "dragon" is the word that was mistranslated, not the word prince. Valyrian is not a gender-neutral language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Actually he doesn't, nowhere does it ever say "the dragon that was promised", nor does Aemon say it. It's rather vague.He says "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess..." then goes on to say that the error crept in from the translation, dragons are gender neutral, now male, now female, as changeable as flame. He never actually says "this word was the one mistranslated" but being as he talks of princes and princesses it's logical to assume that "prince" is the word mistranslated. And they're talking of "The prince that was promised" prophecy and it doesn't even mention dragons. I've scoured the books, app and wiki looking for references to "The dragon that was promised" and they just don't exist. Honestly, for all the of the outlandish things that people readily believe I'm surprised this one hasn't at least attracted attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Actually he doesn't, nowhere does it ever say "the dragon that was promised", nor does Aemon say it. It's rather vague. He says "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess..." then goes on to say that the error crept in from the translation, dragons are gender neutral, now male, now female, as changeable as flame. He never actually says "this word was the one mistranslated" but being as he talks of princes and princesses it's logical to assume that "prince" is the word mistranslated. And they're talking of "The prince that was promised" prophecy and it doesn't even mention dragons. I've scoured the books, app and wiki looking for references to "The dragon that was promised" and they just don't exist. Honestly, for all the of the outlandish things that people readily believe I'm surprised this one hasn't at least attracted attention. "The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female..." indicates that the original word in the prophecy was not prince, but dragon. I'm surprised at how many people are unable to realize that and need it spelled out for them. It's in AFFC, Chapter 35, Sam's POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimereborn Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 lol people seriously think Gendry is going to kill Cersei? i think that would be the most underwhelming death of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.