When ist the Vale going to enter the War?

[Wmarshal]

Except Theon was a hostage while Harry never was. Harry is her cousin need I remind you again, and she would be a kinslayer for killing him. She raised him when his parents died. What had the Hardyngs done to the Waynwoods to merit a hostage? That is a bad analogy. Lyn Corbray was violating parley, and he would be joining a Targaryen claimant to the throne. Dany and Tyrion don't want to slaughter the Vale, but win them. Yohn wouldn't lose face by joining the official taragryen claimant with dragons and an army. It would probably just after LF's death when there is a power vacuum in the Vale. Tyrion is of the same house as Joffrey, and the arrangement obviously wasn't Joffrey's but Tywin's. Tyrion was pushed into it while Corbray chose to without pressure. He owes his support to LF as he knew LF would be counting on his support after that. LF also has friends amongst the Lynderlys and later, Templetons and Waynwoods. Well, no competent monarch would have done differently. She needs to land her army somewhere.

Theon was a ward, just as Harry, his was just created for different reasons. She would a kinslayer illing any valemen at this point, but that doesn't matter, what matter is how a ward can be killed those making the claim his acts as son bull. He is a ward. Who is invading the Vale. By invading the Vale. Yeah he would, joining a active invader sounds incredible coward like. After Baelish death Yohn can walk in Stone and take Robert from his cousin with ease. Actually no, he is seen as Joffrey of House baratheon, again, no onethought to themselves, Joffrey has a stronger connection to him. Yet Joffrey gave Sansa away, not Tywin. Tyrion choice to do it, no one forced him to do anything. Baelish would be counting, what does Corbray needs to care about what Baelish expects him to do? He owes protection by this wed to his wife's family. Later. Maye somewhere not in the Vale? Invading a country isn't exactly what people handwave.

Do you really think GRRM sent him all the way North with Davos on a mission to rescue Rickon just to die against the Boltons? Proven liar? He has a reputation as an honest man, and it was Melisandre's work. Except o you really think the Northmen would send Aegon a raven pledging the North? That ship would need to sail past Lannister-occupied Dragonstone and KL. They need access to the Vale by land for their armies to link up if the Mountains of the Moon are blocked by snow. Connington and Aegon are focused on the south: Dorne, Stormlands and the Reach.

Seeing how he images himself burning by a crown, imagine he won''t die pretty, and that is what Ramsay is good at. And Mance lving makes all see him a liar. How would anyone that? How would Stannis know that? You make it sound as if the short list of kings look all so better then him. With bareyl any ships guarding it. Redwyne has to leave or lose his home. And the vale lords can't just make a path? i this is so needed? Or do a Stan and just march i it? Why do you keep saying that? THey want the whole of Westeros, not be king in the South.

Mercenaries don't make the bullock of Dany's army either, compared to fAegon atm. fAegon invaded with an army of mostly foreign mercenaries. Except did the men on the fleet swim to the Bloody Gate? The force at the Bloody Gate didn't fight against Vhagar on the Arryn fleet, especially since the entire fleet was destroyed. I thought you said "all men" by the typo, check your grammar. Dragons are known to be the ultimate weapons of war, and few men want risk fighting them. Those suitors only made up a small minority of noble houses in the Vale, and I don't think it was exactly announced that Tyrion traveled with the mountain clans. Men are wondering where they got the weapons. I don't think anyone mentioned Tyrion. The village elder who employed Sandor on building a palisade said the mountain clans got steel, but he doesn't mention Tyrion or likely know where they got it. fAegon has the stormlands which he invaded, and who fought against House Targaryen.

No, you are right, slaves, and dothraki also fill her horde. Aegon's host is made of exiles, the main point i think you were making was how Aegon had foreign mercenaries. So what makes the men of the blood gate different from every Valemen of today's age? They never fought a dragon, heard of them, but was very much prepared to fight them. Yet they do it anyway. Those nobles were as noble as they come, and were connected to other nobles not assembled. Seriously? He walked around with from the Moons to the riverlands and hanged out with them for a whole book, how would they not know? A villager who has zer reason to know anything but what is happening in his village doesn't know anything. No stormland ran to him and bowed and kissed his feet, he actually had to fight them.

[Fire Eater]

Theon was a ward, just as Harry, his was just created for different reasons. She would a kinslayer illing any valemen at this point, but that doesn't matter, what matter is how a ward can be killed those making the claim his acts as son bull. He is a ward. Who is invading the Vale. By invading the Vale. Yeah he would, joining a active invader sounds incredible coward like. After Baelish death Yohn can walk in Stone and take Robert from his cousin with ease. Actually no, he is seen as Joffrey of House baratheon, again, no onethought to themselves, Joffrey has a stronger connection to him. Yet Joffrey gave Sansa away, not Tywin. Tyrion choice to do it, no one forced him to do anything. Baelish would be counting, what does Corbray needs to care about what Baelish expects him to do? He owes protection by this wed to his wife's family. Later. Maye somewhere not in the Vale? Invading a country isn't exactly what people handwave.

No, because not all the Valemen are her kin while Harry is known to be her cousin. Wards and hostages aren't interchangeable as Robert and Ned demonstrated when they were fostered by Jon Arryn. Incredibly coward like? So by joining Aegon, the stormlords are cowards as well? Choosing to join someone isn't considered cowardice. Where have we seen that in the series? Yohn would need the more support for that as LF's "daughter" is still betrothed to HtH, and the Waynwoods might not want to miss an opportunity to foster the Lord of the Eyrie, and who knows what lords may be present for the upcoming nuptials who would also want a chance. Except Joffrey didn't make the arrangement Tywin did, everyone knew that. Did you think anyone thought Joffrey, who was too young to rule in his own right, made that decision? Joffrey is not of Sansa's house, and was just fulfilling a superficial function so your analogy doesn't fit. Tyrion had choice, but was compelled. Do you think Corbray would forget LF after that? Even in The Godfather it is expected that when someone does you a favor you owe him a favor. Not if Dany and Tyrion chose to follow Connington's model of "we won't win them with slaughter." They come not to sack the Vale, but to win support for their claim to the IT.

Seeing how he images himself burning by a crown, imagine he won''t die pretty, and that is what Ramsay is good at. And Mance lving makes all see him a liar. How would anyone that? How would Stannis know that? You make it sound as if the short list of kings look all so better then him. With bareyl any ships guarding it. Redwyne has to leave or lose his home. And the vale lords can't just make a path? i this is so needed? Or do a Stan and just march i it? Why do you keep saying that? THey want the whole of Westeros, not be king in the South.

Except do you remember that prophecy works in metaphor? It is likely symbolic of Stannis's quest to be king consumming him or leading to his demise. Ramsay doesn't burn people, he skins them. Melisandre could have done it under Stannis's nose, and if not, Stannis could claim that. Stannis for the most part has a reputation as an honest man, and no one seems to care about what he did with Mance. Stannis is in the North, driving away Ironmen, trying to take WF and rescue Ned's girl, and restore the Starks to WF. There are still ships on Dragonstone no doubt, or how would the Lannister force expect to leave? If the Vale wants to support Aegon they can't say "hey Lannisters come over here and get us." Stannis marched before the snows came while the Vale men would be marching after it is snowed in. Because they mentioned winning the stormlands, Dorne, and friends in the Reach. They have given absolutely no thought to the North. The South has most of the military power, resources and KL.

No, you are right, slaves, and dothraki also fill her horde. Aegon's host is made of exiles, the main point i think you were making was how Aegon had foreign mercenaries. So what makes the men of the blood gate different from every Valemen of today's age? They never fought a dragon, heard of them, but was very much prepared to fight them. Yet they do it anyway. Those nobles were as noble as they come, and were connected to other nobles not assembled. Seriously? He walked around with from the Moons to the riverlands and hanged out with them for a whole book, how would they not know? A villager who has zer reason to know anything but what is happening in his village doesn't know anything. No stormland ran to him and bowed and kissed his feet, he actually had to fight them.

Correction, former slaves. Do you think all 10,00 men are exiles? Including the scions of exiles like Homeless Harry and Peakes? The Vale men at the Bloody Gate never faced dragons before, and didn't know what they were up against while today's Vale men would know what they were up against with the histories of dragons in battle, and would no doubt be scared with dragons being equated with conquest and near certain victory. Those other nobles houses who made up the majority weren't there so I doubt you can assume the entire Vale hates him based on a minority in that case. Their attentions were focused on what was going in the Wo5K, and I don't see a lot of people mentioning Tyrion having mountain clansmen with him outside of KL. The village would know where they got it if it was news Tyrion was traveling with mountain clansmen. True, but the clans of Crackclaw Point bent the knee without a fight when Visenya came on Vhagar after they heard of what happened at Harrenhal, and the Strongs yielded without a fight the moment they saw Caraxes on Harrenhal.

[Wmarshal]

No, because not all the Valemen are her kin while Harry is known to be her cousin. Wards and hostages aren't interchangeable as Robert and Ned demonstrated when they were fostered by Jon Arryn. Incredibly coward like? So by joining Aegon, the stormlords are cowards as well? Choosing to join someone isn't considered cowardice. Where have we seen that in the series? Yohn would need the more support for that as LF's "daughter" is still betrothed to HtH, and the Waynwoods might not want to miss an opportunity to foster the Lord of the Eyrie, and who knows what lords may be present for the upcoming nuptials who would also want a chance. Except Joffrey didn't make the arrangement Tywin did, everyone knew that. Did you think anyone thought Joffrey, who was too young to rule in his own right, made that decision? Joffrey is not of Sansa's house, and was just fulfilling a superficial function so your analogy doesn't fit. Tyrion had choice, but was compelled. Do you think Corbray would forget LF after that? Even in The Godfather it is expected that when someone does you a favor you owe him a favor. Not if Dany and Tyrion chose to follow Connington's model of "we won't win them with slaughter." They come not to sack the Vale, but to win support for their claim to the IT.

Most valemen probably descend from an Arryn after thousands of years. Theon was Ned's ward. By joining a invader without any show of balls and just joining is cowardly, What stormlord has joined Aegon? He conquered most of them, they were not kneeling at his feet as he entered. Choosing to side with the enemy merely because she has dragons is cowardly. Why would he need more support? Alyane is no kin to Robert, Harry is underage and if the Waynewoods have chance so does Yohn. Wait, when do you see him dying? Expect Joffrey wedded her to Tyrion, not Tywin, Tywin called a Septon. Do you think Joffrey would have been there if he was not needed? Joffrey held her under his care as master of the red keep and gave Tyrion her on her wedding. Tyrion was told he could marry her or not, he chose to do it. Do you think Corbray is going to feel if he doesn't some reason everyone would think he lacked honor? He owes it to the father. Connington is currently heavily invading the Stormlands, not one castle opened it's gates for him.

Except do you remember that prophecy works in metaphor? It is likely symbolic of Stannis's quest to be king consumming him or leading to his demise. Ramsay doesn't burn people, he skins them. Melisandre could have done it under Stannis's nose, and if not, Stannis could claim that. Stannis for the most part has a reputation as an honest man, and no one seems to care about what he did with Mance. Stannis is in the North, driving away Ironmen, trying to take WF and rescue Ned's girl, and restore the Starks to WF. There are still ships on Dragonstone no doubt, or how would the Lannister force expect to leave? If the Vale wants to support Aegon they can't say "hey Lannisters come over here and get us." Stannis marched before the snows came while the Vale men would be marching after it is snowed in. Because they mentioned winning the stormlands, Dorne, and friends in the Reach. They have given absolutely no thought to the North. The South has most of the military power, resources and KL.

Or straight up, as dany pretty much looked at Stannis in her vision in Qarth. He also locks them in a room and let them die of hunger, he is over all sick. Melisandre did do it under his nose and neither Stannis or the Northmen knows that or can prove it. Umber wanted Mance's head. Probably when Redwyne leaves.And did so after it fell. They conquered much of it, haven't assaulted any part of Dorne and the Reach, and they mentioned already havingpe landing friends, they aren't landing in Reach territory, swords in hand, demanding a lord from his castle to bend the knee. You really think Aegon just wants to rule Dorne, Stormlands and the Reach?

Correction, former slaves. Do you think all 10,00 men are exiles? Including the scions of exiles like Homeless Harry and Peakes? The Vale men at the Bloody Gate never faced dragons before, and didn't know what they were up against while today's Vale men would know what they were up against with the histories of dragons in battle, and would no doubt be scared with dragons being equated with conquest and near certain victory. Those other nobles houses who made up the majority weren't there so I doubt you can assume the entire Vale hates him based on a minority in that case. Their attentions were focused on what was going in the Wo5K, and I don't see a lot of people mentioning Tyrion having mountain clansmen with him outside of KL. The village would know where they got it if it was news Tyrion was traveling with mountain clansmen. True, but the clans of Crackclaw Point bent the knee without a fight when Visenya came on Vhagar after they heard of what happened at Harrenhal, and the Strongs yielded without a fight the moment they saw Caraxes on Harrenhal.

I doubt it, they stated to SI. The Valemen knew of Valyria and the wars they waged. And who was fighting in the first battle of Northern and Western? Mountain Clans. The lords have been dealing with the Clansmen he armored, you think they never wondered where their armor came from?Why? Why would they know? They are a random village, If word reached anyone it would be a knight or lord. Strong was never considered any form of brave, but I admit Visenya's victory that day does show merit.

This is really getting pointless.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

I believe they will fight claiming the Riverlands in Sansa's name.She will have been revealed at the time and Cersei will have called back Lannister armies for Riverlands.I think Sansa will rule as "Regent" in SR's name.Finally Dany will land in the Vale and they will side with her.

[Fire Eater]

Most valemen probably descend from an Arryn after thousands of years. Theon was Ned's ward. By joining a invader without any show of balls and just joining is cowardly, What stormlord has joined Aegon? He conquered most of them, they were not kneeling at his feet as he entered. Choosing to side with the enemy merely because she has dragons is cowardly. Why would he need more support? Alyane is no kin to Robert, Harry is underage and if the Waynewoods have chance so does Yohn. Wait, when do you see him dying? Expect Joffrey wedded her to Tyrion, not Tywin, Tywin called a Septon. Do you think Joffrey would have been there if he was not needed? Joffrey held her under his care as master of the red keep and gave Tyrion her on her wedding. Tyrion was told he could marry her or not, he chose to do it. Do you think Corbray is going to feel if he doesn't some reason everyone would think he lacked honor? He owes it to the father. Connington is currently heavily invading the Stormlands, not one castle opened it's gates for him.

Theon's purpose was as a hostage while HtH was raised by his closest relatives, especially since before Robert was born he was the heir to the Eyrie. No, it isn't, or Torrhen was a coward by that definition. It is also isn't cowardly if the invader won the support of the lord. This invader also isn't some old foreigner, but the heiress to the family that ruled Westeros for close to 300 years (if you're going to bring up that she lived in Essos most of her life, so did Aegon to be fair). It isn't cowardly, otherwise you would be cowardly by not sticking you hand in a fire on a dare. Dany isn't the Vale's enemy as she didn't declare war on them nor did they declare war on her. Alayne is LF's daughter and the soon to be wife of the heir to the Vale. The Waynwoods would likely already by at the Eyrie for the nuptials so they would have a head start on Yohn. I think he might die right before Dany would land when there is power vacuum in the Vale. Except who is saying the marriage was Joffrey's work? You consistently ignore that everyone knows the decision wasn't Joffrey's but Tywin's, and Tywin made Joffrey perform that token role. That is where your argument falls apart, Joffrey wasn't responsible for the marriage, but Tywin. Joffrey was the king, and it was his uncle's wedding in his castle. It would be weird if he wasn't present. Tyrion chose to, but with pressure from his father. It's called politics, Corbray knew LF would count on his support for the marriage, everyone knows something is expected of you. The girl's father didn't broker the marriage, LF did. It wouldn't have happened without LF. Yet the stormlands will fight for him nonetheless.

Or straight up, as dany pretty much looked at Stannis in her vision in Qarth. He also locks them in a room and let them die of hunger, he is over all sick. Melisandre did do it under his nose and neither Stannis or the Northmen knows that or can prove it. Umber wanted Mance's head. Probably when Redwyne leaves.And did so after it fell. They conquered much of it, haven't assaulted any part of Dorne and the Reach, and they mentioned already havingpe landing friends, they aren't landing in Reach territory, swords in hand, demanding a lord from his castle to bend the knee. You really think Aegon just wants to rule Dorne, Stormlands and the Reach?

Except prophecy has been known to use metaphor. That was his wife while he flays his enemies. Stannis can say it wasn't his doing, and who are the Northmen to refuse him? Stannis has a reputation for honesty. Umber hasn't gotten said skull yet, and Mance is still there in WF. Rewyne already left, and he didn't stop in KL, but head straight for his seat. Because the Reach coast is being assaulted by Ironmen, making it unsafe and Connington knows the coast of his land and the stormlands. Obviiously not, but there is enough potential support in those areas for Aegon to take the IT. Connington seems focus on low hanging fruit atm, or lords close by to their position which is expanding, and stealing Reach lords would simultaneously strengthen Aegon and weaken Tommen.

I doubt it, they stated to SI. The Valemen knew of Valyria and the wars they waged. And who was fighting in the first battle of Northern and Western? Mountain Clans. The lords have been dealing with the Clansmen he armored, you think they never wondered where their armor came from?Why? Why would they know? They are a random village, If word reached anyone it would be a knight or lord. Strong was never considered any form of brave, but I admit Visenya's victory that day does show merit.

This is really getting pointless.

Those wars were centuries ago by the time of Aegon's Conquest, and far away with none having ever seen them so I doubt they would have read about it in their histories. Those mountains were amongst a much larger army, and I wonder how much detail was given about the battle, and how much reached the Vale. That village is in the riverlands close to the Mountains of the Moon, they would know before the Vale that Tyrion came down with clansmen or used them in battle. Where is it stated Simon Strong wasn't brave? Would you fight a large dragon perched on your castle ridden by the most experienced soldier in the realm with the castle to remind you of what happened to the last occupant who tried that? You also were caught by surprise.

We go in circles.

[Wmarshal]

Theon's purpose was as a hostage while HtH was raised by his closest relatives, especially since before Robert was born he was the heir to the Eyrie. No, it isn't, or Torrhen was a coward by that definition. It is also isn't cowardly if the invader won the support of the lord. This invader also isn't some old foreigner, but the heiress to the family that ruled Westeros for close to 300 years (if you're going to bring up that she lived in Essos most of her life, so did Aegon to be fair). It isn't cowardly, otherwise you would be cowardly by not sticking you hand in a fire on a dare. Dany isn't the Vale's enemy as she didn't declare war on them nor did they declare war on her. Alayne is LF's daughter and the soon to be wife of the heir to the Vale. The Waynwoods would likely already by at the Eyrie for the nuptials so they would have a head start on Yohn. I think he might die right before Dany would land when there is power vacuum in the Vale. Except who is saying the marriage was Joffrey's work? You consistently ignore that everyone knows the decision wasn't Joffrey's but Tywin's, and Tywin made Joffrey perform that token role. That is where your argument falls apart, Joffrey wasn't responsible for the marriage, but Tywin. Joffrey was the king, and it was his uncle's wedding in his castle. It would be weird if he wasn't present. Tyrion chose to, but with pressure from his father. It's called politics, Corbray knew LF would count on his support for the marriage, everyone knows something is expected of you. The girl's father didn't broker the marriage, LF did. It wouldn't have happened without LF. Yet the stormlands will fight for him nonetheless.

Theon was a ward. Wait, are you changing the scenario? Is Dany not landing in the Vale with a host meaning to conquer? Are saying Baelish dies during the wedding? If this is the case why the hell is Yohn wanting to attack? Baelish is dead. You consistently ignore why that had to be done, because Sansa was under Joffrey's care. If Tywin good give her away, he would do it, Joffrey can sit with his mother. We can sit here and pretend mean or Tywin gave him a big old shove. I never heard in this book or real life where someone was shamed to fight for someone for marriage set up like this. That is more my fault then yours, but I never heard of it. Probably after he beats them.

Except prophecy has been known to use metaphor. That was his wife while he flays his enemies. Stannis can say it wasn't his doing, and who are the Northmen to refuse him? Stannis has a reputation for honesty. Umber hasn't gotten said skull yet, and Mance is still there in WF. Rewyne already left, and he didn't stop in KL, but head straight for his seat. Because the Reach coast is being assaulted by Ironmen, making it unsafe and Connington knows the coast of his land and the stormlands. Obviiously not, but there is enough potential support in those areas for Aegon to take the IT. Connington seems focus on low hanging fruit atm, or lords close by to their position which is expanding, and stealing Reach lords would simultaneously strengthen Aegon and weaken Tommen.

I am not going to sit here and say it hasn't, but at the sametime it is straight up. Or people like Theon who he does it to for shits and laughs. People who trusted his word that he was honest and burned the asshole alive, tension is going to arise. In the care of Ramsay. No he didn't, we discussed this a while ago, he is still at Dragonstone. And without the rest of the SK, it is pointless.

Those wars were centuries ago by the time of Aegon's Conquest, and far away with none having ever seen them so I doubt they would have read about it in their histories. Those mountains were amongst a much larger army, and I wonder how much detail was given about the battle, and how much reached the Vale. That village is in the riverlands close to the Mountains of the Moon, they would know before the Vale that Tyrion came down with clansmen or used them in battle. Where is it stated Simon Strong wasn't brave? Would you fight a large dragon perched on your castle ridden by the most experienced soldier in the realm with the castle to remind you of what happened to the last occupant who tried that? You also were caught by surprise.

We go in circles.

As is the death of the last dragon in Westeros, they weren't that far, and the wars very well known. And savages fighting for Joffrey is huge news. Why? It is a random village, the first person to know that MC fight for Tyrion is a lord. I already stated you had apoint with Visenya.

We do, how about this, we take a break till like Worlds, read about, come back with new historic examples to debate on with this yeah?

[aryagonnakill#2]

^ I can't speak for Fire Eater but I think there is a significant difference between landing with the intent to conquer and landing with the intent of getting people on your side.

[Justin Amey]

They will declare for Dany and aid her against Aegon and the Others

I dont see that happening at all.

Tyrion and Barristan will land in the vale with Danys forces. A Khalasar, an army of Unsullied, three sellsword groups, Victarion and two dragons.

They will enlist the help of the mountain clans to get to these high lords castles. They will see the force they have and bend their knee to the three headed dragon banners.

possible but highly unlikely.

Two untrained , young , without riders to ride them , The Vale could lose but it will also be worse for Dany because after The Vale she must go and fight Aegon and her army won't be that strong after The Vale.

Aegon came to westeros to take the realm to prove he is worthy of marrying Dany. Why would he fight her?

The Vale are likely going to sit the wars out, until Baelish/Harry the Heir order them. For what purpose, I don't know, there's several scenarios.

i. Tully insurrection in the Riverland:

If Baelish's vassals rise to support Tully, or if Frey make a grab for the entirety of the Riverlands, then Baelish can, in theory, marshal the Valemen (he's Lord Protector of the Vale) and use them to crush the revolt.

ii. Harold backs Sansa for the North:

Harold might ascend to the Lordship of the Vale and, if he does marry Sansa, then he might press her claim on the North so that their kids will have joint Kingdoms. Sansa would also have a claim on the Riverlands through her mother(?), so there's a potential for the Vale to try and grab either one/both.

This would, of course, bring them into conflict with the Boltons/Stannis in the North, but with the Northern military pretty much decimated, and the Riverlands burnt and divided, I don't see how either one could possibly stop the Vale (who can probably muster 20-30,000 troops).

iii. Yohn Royce ousts Baelish:

If Yohn gets the support of most of the Lords, he could potentially lead an army into the Riverlands to remove Baelish from power (take Harrenhal) and reinstate House Tully as a friendly neighbour.

iv. Economic/Political factors:

With the Tyrells currently involved in fighting outlaws, the Greyjoys and Aegon T (presumably with Dornish help), then the Vale could potentially change the tide of the conflict. They could press the Throne for greater autonomy, or lower tax, or command of a greater region. Cersei isn't exactly a great schemer, and she'd leap at the chance to gain an ally that doesn't smell of roses. If the Vale could lead 20-30,000 troops from the Vale to support the Throne, they could potentially stop Aegon from rising (Lannister and Vale target the Stormlands, the Reach fights the Ironborn and sends supporting forces to the Stormlands).

Two reason that is not going to happen:

1.As long as Sansa is in the Vale with some influence, she'll never have them help the Lannisters after what they did to the Starks. So them fighting anyone on behave on the throne isn't going to happen

2 No one in the realm aside from the counsel in KL knows about Aegon. They're not going to fight some they dont know

By that token Tywin bribed the Reach lords. When men follow you or make an alliance with you, it is expected that they be rewarded for their service. Would the mountain clans fight for anyone without getting anything in return. LF has control for the moment, and Yohn can't forcibly remove him alone, and those so-called friends wouldn't have to die for LF since they can raise armies as well. LF also has the backing of KL. Sansa proves that people do know who was responsible for Robar's death. Of course, Tyrion is going to try to gain favors that is called "politics." He obviously did besiege the Eyrie as they surrounded the castle with their forces, and denied food to the castle and entry and exit from it, the very definition of a siege, hence Robert Arryn complaining about running out of eggs.

How was he accomplishing that by knighting HtH? LF was Lysa's husband, and he was from the Vale. What did Bronze Yohn have to go on? Where was that concern when he denied Robert Arryn food in the siege of the Eyrie? Starving the Eyrie meant starving Robert as well.

Much of the history serves as clues for the main series, and in this case, it theoretically just hasn't happened yet.

How many of the lords of the Vale stated that they know Tyrion armed them? How do you know LF will be dead by the time they arrive? Bronze Yohn wants Robert Arryn, and he needs the backing of the monarchy to do that. He also can't hope for justice for Robar's death from the Lannisters, and Tyrion and Dany can offer that. I also doubt he will refuse with three dragons and an army in his face. As the saying goes, if you can't beat them, join them (and see what you can get out of it).

Robert Baratheon is dead, and the Vale lords hold no love for Stannis or the regime in KL. How many Vale lords did you see declare for Stannis, Renly or Joffrey/Tommen? Bronze Yohn wans't calling for joining any of them, but Robb. Their loyalty to House Baratheon ended with Robert. Likewise, I think their grievance against House Targaryen ended with Aerys's death and the fall of House Targaryen. They fought for the Targaryens longer than they fought against them.

Ask yourself this question: when the GC started sending out ravens why did they send any to the Vale? Dany and Aegon both knows who rebel against them, what makes you think they would take any help from traitors. They sent ravens locally and to Dorne

[Barrick Eddon]

1. Where does anyone mention the mountain clans at the Battle of the Green Fork? Everyone knowing is stretching it given the lack of communication between the Vale and KL.

2. I have considered that, and it would be arrived just after he died, when a power vacuum is left in the Vale

3. So Dany and Tyrion likely wouldn't fight the Tyrells even though they would oppose them? You have a straw man, and didn't read my post carefully, or you wouldn't have misconstrued entirely what I said. They would be fighting the Tyrells obviously since they support Tommen's claim, and promising Yohn justice for his son's death would be a possible way to win him over, which is good political move. Is it impossible to fight the Tyrells and promise justice to Yohn for his son's death?

4. To a girl who can have her dragons spit flames in his face?

5. Except they didn't support him before, and he has no presence in the Vale, nor done anything to win them over. Yohn was the only one calling to join Robb.

6. Except Aegon is nowhere near the Vale, and would have to get past the snowed in Mountains of the Moon, and the mountain clans to reach the Vale. That is not without mentioning he would have to get past KL.

1. I am not sure were is mentioned , but the northman , riverlands , westerman know that Tyrion fought on the Green Fork which is near The Vale , lack communication between The Vale and KL :lol: The Vale isn't The Wall , they know what's going in KL just like they know that Alayane is Sansa . If there is a possibiltiy that they don't know (which I doub't) Sansa will tell them everything they need to know about Tyrion.

2.It would be a unbelievable plot gift if they came just when LF dies , there won't be a power vacuum because Yohn , Nestor and Sansa will all ready be in control over the Vale.

3.The Tyrellls will have far bigger problems with the Ironborn , with Aegon and the reach lords who will flock to him than Tommens claim that is if Tommen is alive at the time when Dany arrives.

4.Well I was joking about that , of course he won't do it like that , but with 40000 Vale soldiers at his side he will definitely oppose Dany.

5.No one supported Stannis at all , but after the shadowbaby mess with Renly he got the support of most of Stormlanders and a few lords of reach joined him , the northerners did't also support Stannis but now they started , who is to say that The Vale won't support him .Yohn wasn't the only one to support Robb as Grrm stated I think that Belmore , Tempelton , Redfort and some other lords were with him , but it doesn't matter since that was in time when Lysa was alive and she is dead . As I said Yohn , Sansa and Nestor will rule The Vale after LF's death.

6.Why would Aegon go all the way to The Vale he could always send someone there or send a raven , but I doub't he will get the support of Vale.

[Barrick Eddon]

Aegon came to westeros to take the realm to prove he is worthy of marrying Dany. Why would he fight her?

True . When Dany comes she will consider him an imposter and she will declare war against him , thats why Aegon will fight her.

[Justin Amey]

True . When Dany comes she will consider him an imposter and she will declare war against him ,

This is all coming off from so many people believing Aegon to be a fake. I believe he's the real deal so i don't believe there will be a fight between them.

[Quentyn Kartell]

Tyrion and Barristan will land in the vale with Danys forces. A Khalasar, an army of Unsullied, three sellsword groups, Victarion and two dragons.

They will enlist the help of the mountain clans to get to these high lords castles. They will see the force they have and bend their knee to the three headed dragon banners.

And where is Dany? In Mereen?

[Fire Eater]

Ask yourself this question: when the GC started sending out ravens why did they send any to the Vale? Dany and Aegon both knows who rebel against them, what makes you think they would take any help from traitors. They sent ravens locally and to Dorne

You might as well ask why Connington is securing the stormlands who fought on the side of Robert? You're saying Connington will take aid from the stormlands, but not the Vale. Jon Arryn is dead, and the Vale hasn't declared for any monarch. Connington only has the GC, and beggars can't be choosers.

1. I am not sure were is mentioned , but the northman , riverlands , westerman know that Tyrion fought on the Green Fork which is near The Vale , lack communication between The Vale and KL :lol: The Vale isn't The Wall , they know what's going in KL just like they know that Alayane is Sansa . If there is a possibiltiy that they don't know (which I doub't) Sansa will tell them everything they need to know about Tyrion.

2.It would be a unbelievable plot gift if they came just when LF dies , there won't be a power vacuum because Yohn , Nestor and Sansa will all ready be in control over the Vale.

3.The Tyrellls will have far bigger problems with the Ironborn , with Aegon and the reach lords who will flock to him than Tommens claim that is if Tommen is alive at the time when Dany arrives.

1. I doubt they know Sansa's identity as none have ever seen her before. They have nothing to go on excpet Yohn and Myranda.

2. I highly doubt that. Yohn is far away, and likely wouldn't attend the wedding. If Sansa kills LF, she would have to leave as the odds would be stacked against her, especially having already proven to have lied before.

3. The Tyrells are dealing with the Ironborn already, and I think the Ironborn will be dealt with before Dany arrives.

4.Well I was joking about that , of course he won't do it like that , but with 40000 Vale soldiers at his side he will definitely oppose Dany.

5.No one supported Stannis at all , but after the shadowbaby mess with Renly he got the support of most of Stormlanders and a few lords of reach joined him , the northerners did't also support Stannis but now they started , who is to say that The Vale won't support him .Yohn wasn't the only one to support Robb as Grrm stated I think that Belmore , Tempelton , Redfort and some other lords were with him , but it doesn't matter since that was in time when Lysa was alive and she is dead . As I said Yohn , Sansa and Nestor will rule The Vale after LF's death.

6.Why would Aegon go all the way to The Vale he could always send someone there or send a raven , but I doub't he will get the support of Vale.

4. The Vale doesn't have 40,000 men, and why would they flock to him when Robert is their liege lord? How would they assemble that fast? How many men would be willing to face dragons? Case in point, the lords of Crackclaw Point when Visenya arrived and the Strongs when Dameon arrived.

5. Stannis never visited the Vale compared to the stormlands and the North. I doubt that they will rule the Vale together as that would be too sweet, and would render Sansa's arc pointless with hardly any struggles in her arc, and few things left to test her character.

6. It would take more than a raven given the Vale fought against House Targaryen. An envoy could go by land with the Mountains of the Moon snowed in and patrolled by mountain clans. By sea, there are storms and they would have to get past Lannister-occupied Dragonstone and KL. They seem to be focusing on Dorne, the Reach and the stormlands.

This is all coming off from so many people believing Aegon to be a fake. I believe he's the real deal so i don't believe there will be a fight between them.

Except that would be sloppy writing if he is the real deal. GRRM said there would be a second Dance, and all the clues point to Aegon being fake. There is only room for one hidden Taragryen.

Theon was a ward. Wait, are you changing the scenario? Is Dany not landing in the Vale with a host meaning to conquer? Are saying Baelish dies during the wedding? If this is the case why the hell is Yohn wanting to attack? Baelish is dead. You consistently ignore why that had to be done, because Sansa was under Joffrey's care. If Tywin good give her away, he would do it, Joffrey can sit with his mother. We can sit here and pretend mean or Tywin gave him a big old shove. I never heard in this book or real life where someone was shamed to fight for someone for marriage set up like this. That is more my fault then yours, but I never heard of it. Probably after he beats them.

Theon was ward, but that was a eupmeism for hostage while HtH wasn't a hostage. No, I am saying Dany is landing in the Vale to retake her throne. He wouldn't die during the wedding, but before it can occur. I never said Yohn would attack you did, he would just want outside support from a higher authority to brush away the other contenders for Lord Protector and Robert's guardian. No, you don't realize that your analogy is false. Marrying Sansa off wasn't Joffrey's decision or his work (as any idiot at court knows it was Tywin's work as Joffrey is still too young to rule an make those decisions), so it couldn't supposedly have strengthened the bond between him and his uncle. Tywin chose Joffrey for superficial reasons, and it's not like Joffrey was going to say "no." I'm not saying Tyrion didn't choose, but he was getting pressure form Tywin. He even gave Sansa the option to choose Lancel over him. Corbray's marriage was politics, LF seldom never does something for nothing, he expects something in return, basically Corbray's support. It was decided at the meeting they had at the Gates of the Moon in ASoS.

I am not going to sit here and say it hasn't, but at the sametime it is straight up. Or people like Theon who he does it to for shits and laughs. People who trusted his word that he was honest and burned the asshole alive, tension is going to arise. In the care of Ramsay. No he didn't, we discussed this a while ago, he is still at Dragonstone. And without the rest of the SK, it is pointless.

What are they gonig to do about it? They have bigger fish to try than Mance. No, Redwyne isn't, you didn't even bother to look in AFfC and ADwD.

"Lord Paxter was taking on provisions for the voyage home when Sweet Cersei raised sail," Lord Waters reported."I would imagine that by now his main fleet has been put to sea."

Paxter Redwyne, lord admiral and master of ships, presently sailing his fleet around Dorne to deal with Euron Greyjoy's ironmen.

As is the death of the last dragon in Westeros, they weren't that far, and the wars very well known. And savages fighting for Joffrey is huge news. Why? It is a random village, the first person to know that MC fight for Tyrion is a lord. I already stated you had apoint with Visenya.

We do, how about this, we take a break till like Worlds, read about, come back with new historic examples to debate on with this yeah?

I doubt they paid much attention to detail regarding what was going on east given there was always a war in Westeros. How is that huge news? I don't see people putting much stock in who he hires. That village is close to the Vale, and has heard of the clans' attacks.

Okay, the break starts officially now.

[Wmarshal]

No, Redwyne isn't, you didn't even bother to look in AFfC and ADwD.

"Lord Paxter was taking on provisions for the voyage home when Sweet Cersei raised sail," Lord Waters reported."I would imagine that by now his main fleet has been put to sea."

Paxter Redwyne, lord admiral and master of ships, presently sailing his fleet around Dorne to deal with Euron Greyjoy's ironmen.

Not breaking the rule, just covering, got it from wiki, which sucks, it stated he remains at Dragonstone.

[Fire Eater]

Not breaking the rule, just covering, got it from wiki, which sucks, it stated he remains at Dragonstone.

I checked the wiki first as well. Whoever wrote that didn't pay attention. It also fails to take into account that Redwyne would head straight for home to deal with the Ironborn after Dragonstone since he was given no assignments afterward, and the threat required his fleet, not to mention his desire to defend his seat.

[Wmarshal]

I checked the wiki first as well. Whoever wrote that didn't pay attention. It also fails to take into account that Redwyne would head straight for home to deal with the Ironborn after Dragonstone since he was given no assignments afterward, and the threat required his fleet, not to mention his desire to defend his seat.

Links for now on.

[Mithras]

Spoiler from Arianne I of TWoW:

You were wise not to come by sea. Since the Redwyne fleet passed through the Stepstones, those waters are crawling with strange sails, all the way north to the Straights of Tarth and Shipbreaker’s Bay. Myrmen, Volantenes, Lyseni, even reavers from the Iron Islands. Some have entered the Sea of Dorne to land men on the south shore of Cape Wrath.

The Redwyne fleet passed through the Stepstones to return home. Myrmen, Volantenes and the Lyseni were carrying the GC IMO. The ironborn should be Victarion's Iron Fleet because we know that they regrouped at the Stepstones before being divided into three squadrons and the heaviest ships went to Lys to sell slaves captured at the Shields.

[Justin Amey]

You might as well ask why Connington is securing the stormlands who fought on the side of Robert? You're saying Connington will take aid from the stormlands, but not the Vale. Jon Arryn is dead, and the Vale hasn't declared for any monarch. Connington only has the GC, and beggars can't be choosers.

Except that would be sloppy writing if he is the real deal. GRRM said there would be a second Dance, and all the clues point to Aegon being fake. There is only room for one hidden Taragryen.

1.All that remains of Baratheons's men are all at the wall. Those who stayed behind are way too few to be a proper fighting force. The stormlands would the easiest to conquer and to gain a foothold into Westeros. Beside Connington's ancestral seat is in the the stormland, a place he is familiar with. He was probably planing taking that over for years.

2It would be bad writing if he was fake. If he was fake and it can be proven that it would be no trouble to kill him, hell Dorne might do it just for shaming the name. If he the deal, than Dany would make the biggest mistake of her life. Even bigger than not taking Quentin's offer and getting him killed. Not only would Dorne lose Aegon again, they would lose a powerful ally forever.

[Lord Lannister]

1.All that remains of Baratheons's men are all at the wall. Those who stayed behind are way too few to be a proper fighting force. The stormlands would the easiest to conquer and to gain a foothold into Westeros. Beside Connington's ancestral seat is in the the stormland, a place he is familiar with. He was probably planing taking that over for years.

2It would be bad writing if he was fake. If he was fake and it can be proven that it would be no trouble to kill him, hell Dorne might do it just for shaming the name. If he the deal, than Dany would make the biggest mistake of her life. Even bigger than not taking Quentin's offer and getting him killed. Not only would Dorne lose Aegon again, they would lose a powerful ally forever.

I don't see Dany accepting Aegon's claim regardless if he's real or not. The proof is really little more than Jon Connington's word either way you go. When you consider Illiryo and Varys initially wanting to set up Viserys as king, why would they bother with that if they had the trueborn heir the whole time? Griff was likely always a plan B and he began his move when it was clear Viserys was dead and Dany seemingly was never going to leave Slavers Bay.

Regardless, I don't see Dany buying into it. She was always lamenting the idea of her lost family, but in reality she deep down doesn't want much to do with them. She's already considered the Iron Throne to be hers, and she's already put in the work for it from her mount of view. Especially when you consider the whole mummer's dragon prophecy.

[Justin Amey]

I don't see Dany accepting Aegon's claim regardless if he's real or not. The proof is really little more than Jon Connington's word either way you go. When you consider Illiryo and Varys initially wanting to set up Viserys as king, why would they bother with that if they had the trueborn heir the whole time? Griff was likely always a plan B and he began his move when it was clear Viserys was dead and Dany seemingly was never going to leave Slavers Bay.

Regardless, I don't see Dany buying into it. She was always lamenting the idea of her lost family, but in reality she deep down doesn't want much to do with them. She's already considered the Iron Throne to be hers, and she's already put in the work for it from her mount of view. Especially when you consider the whole mummer's dragon prophecy.

You don't see it Dany even said in a quote "if he was alive, I might have married him."

Jon Connington is a noble knight who has been loyal to the Targs since day one. Even Sir Barriston don't even have that honor, but has word would be consider booty? Sir Barriston could easily conform to dany that JonCon is a man of honor, even id they don't believe Varys or Illyrio.