Who is older, Jon Snow or Robb Stark?

[MyrinLannister]

It doesn't really matter storywise, but who do you think is older of the two?

Robb was conceived after the Battle of the Bells, which is known to have taken place in 283 AC. After the battle Ned Stark rode to Riverrun to wed Catelyn before returning to join Robert in his rebellion. By the time Ned returned from the war Robb was born, still in the year 283.

Jon was most likely conceived at some time in 283 AC. At this time Rhaegar was assumingly with Lyanna Stark at the Tower of Joy. Rhaegar left the Tower of Joy and returned to Kings Landing shortly after the Battle of the Bells. So Jon would have had to be conceived before Rhaegar left for Kings Landing. Jon was born in 283, as when Ned Stark reached the Tower of Joy (in 283), Lyanna was giving birth to him (or was he recently born?).

Neds timeline:

Robbs conception (Riverrun, Riverlands) - (Early?) 283 AC

Ned Figths on the Trident (Trident, Riverlands)

Ned arrives at Storms End to lift the siege (Storms End, Stormlands)

Ned arrives at the Tower of Joy to "rescue" Lyanna (Tower of Joy, Dorne)

Jon is born (Tower of Joy, Dorne) - (Late?) 283 AC

There is a maximum of 12 months between the two events cause they are both in the same year. So if there is less than 9 months in between the first and last events then Jon is older.

Thoughts?

[aryagonnakill#2]

Jon was born within 2 weeks of KL fall, Jon is older.

[Robb_Warged]

I've wondered this too.

[The Wolves]

Robb is older.

[sj4iy]

Until the book tells us otherwise, I will go with Robb. Of course, it doesn't really matter at this point, since Robb is dead.

[Mychel_Redfort]

It's been recently discussed in this thread, and there was no definitive answer.

[Pod The Rod]

Are you sure Robb was conceived after the Battle of the Bells? I was under the impression that Ned and the Northern host stopped at Riverrun on the way south from Moat Cailin for the wedding, then headed south the next day to Stoney Sept. They linked up with the Tullys at RR.

[The Mountain That Flies]

Are you sure Robb was conceived after the Battle of the Bells? I was under the impression that Ned and the Northern host stopped at Riverrun on the way south from Moat Cailin for the wedding, then headed south the next day to Stoney Sept. They linked up with the Tullys at RR.

I thought Ned spent two weeks with Cat right after the wedding? And why would they marry at Moat Cailin, at that point it wouldn't have been too safe for Cat to travel, the Riverlands were still divided.

[Pod The Rod]

I thought Ned spent two weeks with Cat right after the wedding? And why would they marry at Moat Cailin, at that point it wouldn't have been too safe for Cat to travel, the Riverlands were still divided.

I said the Northern Army went straight to Riverrun from Moat Cailin, not going past Riverrun from the Moat and heading to Stoney Sept for the battle, then turning around and going to Riverrun for the wedding.

They got married at Riverrun.

I don't know how much time they spent together afterwards. Robb was conceived on the wedding night.

It just makes more sense in the timeline for the wedding to have been before the Battle of the Bells.

[The Holy Goat]

Robb I believe, by a couple of months or so.

[The Santa of House Claus]

There is no real way to answer that because we do not know Jon's true parentage. But from the way the timelines go in Game of Thrones, they both seem to turn 15 around the same time.

[Consigliere]

There have been threads about this before and there is no definitive answer. If we get into technicalities then technically Jon is older by virtue of the fact that he has lived longer.

[illrede]

You can bet that is the question that kept Cat up some nights.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

For the purposes of the story, Robb must be older than Jon. If we assume that Jon is Ned's son (as everyone in storyworld seems to) then he could not have dishonored himself and Cat by sleeping with another woman before the wedding.

Robb was conceived either on the wedding night or shortly thereafter. Ned and Cat were married in the sept at Riverrun. Then Ned left and she didn't see him again for a year. Jon is supposed to have been fathered while Ned was on campaign in the war, thus he must be at least a few weeks younger than Robb.

[Fae Boleyn]

For the purposes of the story, Robb must be older than Jon. If we assume that Jon is Ned's son (as everyone in storyworld seems to) then he could not have dishonored himself and Cat by sleeping with another woman before the wedding.

Robb was conceived either on the wedding night or shortly thereafter. Ned and Cat were married in the sept at Riverrun. Then Ned left and she didn't see him again for a year. Jon is supposed to have been fathered while Ned was on campaign in the war, thus he must be at least a few weeks younger than Robb.

Agreed, save for one small problem - the three mentioned possibilities for Jon's mother don't work if Jon is younger. No, Ashara wasn't nailed down in Starfall, but odds of her going to the war-torn north? Slim. Same for Wylla, who came from Starfall after all. Ned would have met the fisherman's daughter before the wedding, too.

All we know is that Ned talks about shaming Catelyn to shut Robert up, and Jon was already in Winterfell when Cat and Robb arrived. He probably is younger, but the stories are blurred such that either option fits.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think it's probably impossible to know for sure because we don't know when, exactly, Jon was born.

The important thing is that Robb is plausibly older than Jon, whether he actually is or not. Why would Ned cop to adultery if he could pass off Jon as older and avoid it? I think it's so that Catelyn could be secure in her knowledge that her son was the oldest, so that, say, even if Jon was ever legitimized, he wouldn't be able to challenge Robb's inheritance.

[Queen.Sansa.Lannister]

Robb is older.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Jon was said to have been conceived before Eddard called his banners and Robb was after the battle of Stoney Stept .

[Lord Lannister]

Ned might have lied a few weeks or a month off Jon's age. Cat was pregnant when he rode off to war, so even if Jon was a bit older, Ned wouldn't have had a chance to wonder off the reservation yet.

[nikstar3]

The Battle of the Bells took place 3 months after the start of the war (which started in late 282), AKA. early 283. Ned and Cat were married in a matter of days after that and spend 2 weeks together before Ned rode off to fight, so Robb was conceived about 3-4 months after the start of the war. Thus he must have been born around (or a month after at most) the Sack of KL which took place 12 months into the war.

If we accept R+L=J, and that Lyanna died in childbirth, then Jon was born about a month after the Sack, since that was roughly the time Ned was at the TOJ (then again we know very little about the TOJ and Ned's journey to find it, so I might be wrong about the time it took him to get there). In this scenario Robb and Jon would be born roughly at the same time, with Robb maybe being a couple of weeks older.

If you actually believe Jon is indeed Ned's son (highly unlikely but whatevs) then Robb would certainly be older since Jon was conceived by Ned after he rode off to war.

So in both cases, it's pretty much certain that Robb is older.

PS: I'm aware that there are other theories about Jon's parentage like B+A=J, N+A=J, or even that Wylla was his mother. However, we have no clear info on the timeline of the events at the end of RR, so I can't really make a legit guess about it. However, given that R+L=J is pretty much canon ATM, I think all of these are highly unlikely anyway.

/thread