Marcus Agrippa Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 OK, to explain ... To Bumps, I don't think it's explicit enough to suggest that Cersei's a bastard, just that Aerys and Joanna had a ... history, I guess. If you were in-story, i.e. Tommen, and reading it, I don't think it would dawn on you that the maester might be claiming the Lannister kids were Targ bastards (I don't think he's making that claim at all, only describing a complicated court relationship between Aerys, Joanna, Tywin and Rhaella). But if you're a reader and looking for anything to validate a theory you already like and want to be true, then you could look at the maester's writing, and conclude based on your existing ideas that GRRM might be getting at something with it. The point is though that whatever is in the book that a reader could use as "evidence" regarding Tyrion could also be used as "evidence" regarding Jaime and Cersei. Rather than be a silver bullet for one Targ theory or another, the most it actually does is leave the door ajar for both. But because "Tyrion is a Targ" is more popular, that's the one that will get the attention, regardless of whether it's the option that's true, if either of them is. It's still possible, and probably likely, that all of Tywin's kids are his. Ah thank you for that. I would hope so. There has been way too many Targs already. Still, can't wait till the 28th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Thanks for elaborating. It does make sense. People will see what they want to see and not necessarily what the text actually says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 This is interesting: There's some deliberately embedded contradictions, differing arguments, etc., all to try and get the sense of a maester dealing with differing opinions and sources, and inserting some of his own along the way. http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/251ue7/no_spoilers_a_new_excerpt_from_the_world_of_ice/chd2b3r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History of Westeros Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The running gag would be really fun if Maester Yandel showed up in TWoW and presented the book to ... Aegon VI. Oh yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozemarijn Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It's not a Qartheen horn. It is Valyrian. When did they get a hold of it? Under what circumstances? Why? All important questions. If Euron's claim was half a truth -- someone (not him) went to the ruins of Valyria and pulled this horn out of there... well, there's your answer: no dragons, outside of Westeros. Where is this said? Ghis and the Rhoynar are known to have fought Valyria, but I don't recall a reference to Qarth having done so.If someone went to Valyria and got that horn, and only after that it somehow ended up with Euron. That someone might have claimed it. Moquorro tells Victarian he should claim the horn with blood, he hasn't done that so far and my guess is he thinks being macho around it will suffice.But what if the horn is already claimed by the first owner and Victarion doesn't overclaim it? When he sounds the horn the dragons will be bound to the owner of the horn, a mysterious someone we don't know.However we do have a character who went to Valyria, a character that went looking for a sword but also for lost treasures there. We know he got at least as far as the smoking see. But he somehow got missed, which might explain why Euron got hold over it. What if it was Gerion Lannister who claimed the horn? Euron found a way to steel it but he does not take the bloodmagic in account. To make a long story a short one: Tyrion will bind a dragon to him the moment the horn is blown nearby one. Not because of his so called Targaryen blood, but because of his Lannister blood. Lannister blood claimed the horn and he is the only Lannister in the neighbourhood. All this magic, it is just way to subtle for those Ironborn. They think they understand bloodmagic, but Victarion really depends on Moquorro who stays very vague about how to claim the horn. Moquorro, who has met Tyrion and seemed to have seen him in his flames.It would explain a lot. The whole Gerion plotline, the reason why Tyrion is in Mereen with only 'crossing' Dany. His meeting with Moquoro. But it is also a plausible way for Tyrion to get a dragon without being another secret Targaryen. And we have had so much dragon foreshadowing with him...Does this make any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It makes a lot of sense actually. Gerion most certainly could be the original horn owner, but did Euron kill him? Or I know some of my friends imagine the Battle for Meereen to go like this. Meereneese Navy attack Meereen, Iron Fleet attack Meereneese Navy, Volantene Fleet attack Iron Fleet then Gerion's Pirates attack the Volantenes. Totally crazy, but perhaps we haven't seen the last of Gerion.Now another thing, could Tyrion ride a dragon? Does riding a dragon involve putting your legs around it? Or is it standing for a long time? Could Tyrion accomplish that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozemarijn Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It makes a lot of sense actually. Gerion most certainly could be the original horn owner, but did Euron kill him? Or I know some of my friends imagine the Battle for Meereen to go like this. Meereneese Navy attack Meereen, Iron Fleet attack Meereneese Navy, Volantene Fleet attack Iron Fleet then Gerion's Pirates attack the Volantenes. Totally crazy, but perhaps we haven't seen the last of Gerion.Now another thing, could Tyrion ride a dragon? Does riding a dragon involve putting your legs around it? Or is it standing for a long time? Could Tyrion accomplish that?Apparently Euron got it from the house of the undying, after it was destroyed by Daenerys. So it is plausible they got hold over the horn and had something to do with the disappearance of Gerion, even years ago. The House of the undying tricking Gerion seems even more plausible as Euron finding Gerion by chance after he had disappeared for so long. The horn at the house of the undying covers that timespan.Tyrion is able to walk and ride a horse, even without his special made saddle ( in Mereen he asks after a horse an no way he can just make a saddle out of thin air) so my guess is he 'll be fine. The trouble is bonding with the dragon, one you managed that you'll find a way. Dany isn't that big either if you think about it.What troubles me is, how to explain this story. Gerion cannot pop up or he would ride the dragon. Perhaps by Moquorro? Or a member of the house of the undying? They are still her most dangerous enemy so good chance one will pop up in Mereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 True^ So Gerion won't show up. Is not unknown for missing characters to never show up, Benjen may not show up again either. I don't really know how I feel about Tyrion getting a dragon.Nah, Dany is far bigger than Tyrion. And a horse is far from a dragon. Who knows... If plot requires him to ride a dragon, he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 If someone went to Valyria and got that horn, and only after that it somehow ended up with Euron. That someone might have claimed it. Moquorro tells Victarian he should claim the horn with blood, he hasn't done that so far and my guess is he thinks being macho around it will suffice.But what if the horn is already claimed by the first owner and Victarion doesn't overclaim it?When he sounds the horn the dragons will be bound to the owner of the horn, a mysterious someone we don't know.However we do have a character who went to Valyria, a character that went looking for a sword but also for lost treasures there. We know he got at least as far as the smoking see. But he somehow got missed, which might explain why Euron got hold over it.What if it was Gerion Lannister who claimed the horn? Euron found a way to steel it but he does not take the bloodmagic in account.To make a long story a short one: Tyrion will bind a dragon to him the moment the horn is blown nearby one. Not because of his so called Targaryen blood, but because of his Lannister blood. Lannister blood claimed the horn and he is the only Lannister in the neighbourhood.All this magic, it is just way to subtle for those Ironborn. They think they understand bloodmagic, but Victarion really depends on Moquorro who stays very vague about how to claim the horn. Moquorro, who has met Tyrion and seemed to have seen him in his flames.It would explain a lot. The whole Gerion plotline, the reason why Tyrion is in Mereen with only 'crossing' Dany. His meeting with Moquoro. But it is also a plausible way for Tyrion to get a dragon without being another secret Targaryen. And we have had so much dragon foreshadowing with him...Does this make any sense?It makes sense, but how will it be revealed to the readers - and what's going to happen in the show, where Gerion doesn't seem to exist? Because, as readers we'd read something like dragonhorn blown (either in POV or heard by another character) followed by, I don't know, a dragon landing next to Tyrion and heeding all his commands, at the middle of a battle. At first glance, it would sound way too unexpected, way too deux ex machina, unless we have some previous POV regarding the story of the dragonhorn. Say, the Damphair hearing tales of how Euron stole it from a blond haired madman at the ruins of Valyria or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozemarijn Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It makes sense, but how will it be revealed to the readers - and what's going to happen in the show, where Gerion doesn't seem to exist? Because, as readers we'd read something like dragonhorn blown (either in POV or heard by another character) followed by, I don't know, a dragon landing next to Tyrion and heeding all his commands, at the middle of a battle. At first glance, it would sound way too unexpected, way too deux ex machina, unless we have some previous POV regarding the story of the dragonhorn. Say, the Damphair hearing tales of how Euron stole it from a blond haired madman at the ruins of Valyria or something.We already know Euron took it from the house of the undying. They hate Dany, so either one of them will pop up in Mereen, or perhaps one of those Euron brought with him will speak. Indeed there is this Damphair point of view. It would be logical for Euron to sent the prisoners to Damphair to find put more about Dany and magic. Martin has proposed to read another Damphair chapter and said it was seriously twisted. Since Euron has let those warlocks eat one of the others before, this could very well be the chapter ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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