The Wolves Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Guys when the book comes out we need threads dedicated to each section to discuss ex:Starks/NorthArryn/Vale etc... I'm Excited for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 :rofl: GRRM give as more story of Starks and Boltons :devil: , if think they are more cooler then the Targs :ack: Yea, the history of the North-- specifically, the Boltons v Starks-- is my big investment in this. I think that sort of information might become super relevant to the upcoming plot, so I wasn't expecting much about it from the world book. that said, this was a good excerpt for my insufferable agenda. If this were in the Dune universe, the Boltons would probably be the most likely to use "axlotl tanks," and Roose would indeed be millennia old via hundreds or more Roose gholas.I agree it is weird that the Boltons have survived so long, especially under the more brutal Starks. And haven't they rebelled quite a bit even since the Andals started coming to Westeros? I thought they supposedly flayed a Stark ruler as recently 1,000 years ago. Yea, they were apparently still flaying Starks pretty recently according to the books. It looks like they rebelled a few times as vassals, and periodically continued the Stark skin wearing. Small side point-- are Boltons unable to have initials that aren't R. B.? All their first names start with the letter R too. wtf. so, I've been plugging the "Boltons have something to do with magic" angle for a while, and that's why learning that the rivalry goes back to the Long Night, and that these two fought so much for so long, is kind of a major revelation. My favorite part of is the Long Night mention. I think the Boltons are offshoots of the Starks (perhaps via the NK or something), so I'm just very happy about this excerpt that places the division around that time. I really have to think that they had/ have some way to rival the Starks that enters the supernatural realm (I mean, we know the Starks have magical powers, so I've wondered if they have their own weapon, or if they know how to use the Starks' power against them, or provide some super valuable service or something. Because these Boltons are far too unruly to be allowed to continue on like this, imo. I always wondered why the Starks kept the Boltons alive because their Kings of Winter seemed like some hard mofos, yet GRRM probably needed a house to rival the Starks in the North so the Boltons are it. And it said that a Bolton once burned Winterfell down and yet the Boltons still fell to Winterfell. Yep history is goin to repeat itself except this time I doubt House Bolton will exist. according to the excerpt, the Boltons got away with burning down Winterfell twice. So Rams would be number 3 I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Roose's son Domeric was a Bolton that didn't have a name with the letter R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Roose's son Domeric was a Bolton that didn't have a name with the letter R eh, I was being a little cavalier (there were all these R's in the excerpt, which I found sort of amusing). But I'm also of the belief Roose had him killed off as a poor representation of a Bolton (I'm going to bet he didn't have the ice eyes), and therefore unworthy of an R (or the Bolton) name. I'm only half joking with that terrible rationalization. Isn't it kind of interesting, though, that Roose/ Rams' serial killing proclivities is part of a long line of similarly deranged lunatics? I have a pretty good guess as to what kind of game old Roger the Huntsman was known for, lol. but ok, ok. I'll stop about the Boltons. Sorry everyone. This just got me excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 eh, I was being a little cavalier (there were all these R's in the excerpt, which I found sort of amusing). But I'm also of the belief Roose had him killed off as a poor representation of a Bolton (I'm going to bet he didn't have the ice eyes), and therefore unworthy of an R (or the Bolton) name. I'm only half joking with that terrible rationalization. Isn't it kind of interesting, though, that Roose/ Rams' serial killing proclivities is part of a long line of similarly deranged lunatics? I have a pretty good guess as to what kind of game old Roger the Huntsman was known for, lol. but ok, ok. I'll stop about the Boltons. Sorry everyone. This just got me excited.Oh okay but the thousands of years of animosity between the Starks and Boltons are really interesting I hope that's not the only information on them in the world book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The pages are quite hard to read but something I've discovered is the Order of the Green Hand were essentially the best knights of the Reach, we know that the Manderlys were part of this order. Huge tournaments were held to discover the best knights. I'll try update this post if I can make out anything else. The first page is essentially saying how pretty Highgarden is with numerous vines and I think waterfalls within the castle? The castle is formidable, overlooking the Mander from a high hill with three walls. There is a sept within Highgarden that rivals the Sept of Baelor and Starry Sept in Oldtown, there is also a godswood. Lord Leo Longthorn was a tourney champion and Lyonel Tyrell both had something to do with the blackfyre rebellion by defeating Blackfyre Reach supporters. House Manderly embarrassed the Reach lords at a tourney by defeating them in the reign of Jahaerys the First.The children of the forest had something to do with Gendel and Gorne, the kings beyond the wall, helping them get through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Why did Roger the Huntsman bend the knee? I couldn't make it out from the page. Seems like the Boltons were dominating the whole North's Eastern Coast, from the Last River to the Sheepshead Hills. They lost a lot of power. I think it's safe to assume that House Karstark was founded after the defeat of a Bolton Lord. Many northern Houses seems to have been extinguished during the Stark's unification of the North (Greenwood, Ryders from the Rills, Fishers from the Stony Shore, House Towers, House Amber....). And the Blackwoods were driven from the North (Wolfswood) by the Starks. Seems to me that the North was quite populated during that time. And also House Glover used to be a royal house.... Cannot wait to grab this book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 No known reason for Roger, he just did. The Houses Towers, Fisher and Blackwood intrigue me. Expulsion from the north seems to be a good thing considering Blackwoods are among the most powerful river lords now, the Fishers were River Kings and the Towers held Harrenhal, all which happened after their expulsion from the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 No known reason for Roger, he just did. The Houses Towers, Fisher and Blackwood intrigue me. Expulsion from the north seems to be a good thing considering Blackwoods are among the most powerful river lords now, the Fishers were River Kings and the Towers held Harrenhal, all which happened after their expulsion from the north. Ok, I never made the link with the River Kings (Fisher) and Towers (Harrenhal). It seems like it was a benediction in disguise. Any confirmation that the Barrow Kings, which claimed overlordship over all First Men, were Dustins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondancer Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Blackwoods were of The North!?! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 And WTF was that about Blackwoods Blackwoods were of The North!?! :D That was a complete surprise to me. I also noted how the Starks made a habit of marrying the daughters of the defeated kings and that made me even more convinced that Jon+Shireen will happen in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 No confirmation that Dustin's are Barrow Kings, but Barrowtown, crown on their sigil and the Barrow Kings being of the south screams Barrow Kings to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Holy shiiiiit!!!!! Can we discuss what we read about the ancient North from the Barnes and noble image releases???? I just almost destroyed my eyes, but I read the entire small print Kings of Winter page. Holy, holy crap! This is gold! This is what I've been waiting for for a decade! It answers SOOO many questions. Can we discuss away? I'm chomping at the bit here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 No confirmation that Dustin's are Barrow Kings, but Barrowtown, crown on their sigil and the Barrow Kings being of the south screams Barrow Kings to me Yeah, I was thinking about that too. So they are like the Arryns of the First Men heh. Too bad, their male line is extinguished as of 300 AC. The Stark's period of unification of the North seems to have been a very bloody period. No wonder the Kings of Winter were described as hard men. Boltons were powerful, Barrow Kings claimed legitimacy over the kingship of the FM and then the Warg Kings.... Wow. Seems like a fitting time for Ice-Eyes, Theon the Hungry Wolf.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeThemBurn Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Wow, I've got to have this. A big Targaryen fan here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 OK, so... The last Bolton king was subjugated just as the first Andals were crossing the Narrow Sea in their longships. So the Boltons did not just bend the knee to the Starks 1000 years ago. They bent the knee around 3000 years ago (or whenever the Andals first arrived), and then proceeded to revolt periodically for a few thousand years after that. Also, the Bolton Kings, at the height of their power, ruled between the Last River in the Northeast, to the White Knife in the West, and the Sheepshead hills in the South. This area does not include the Karstark lands, so that was a different lord that was cast down. Likely one of the Ambers, Towers, Greenwoods or Frosts that are mentioned as being former petty kings that were eventually extinguished by the Starks. Also, the Bolton rule did not ever extend down to the Manderly lands. It seems clear that the Stark conquest of the North stretched over many thousands of years, but that this conquest happened largely between the Long Night and the arrival of the Andals. So by the time the Andals arrived, the Stark conquest of the North was pretty much complete. Meaning that they ruled an absolutely vast kingdom, compared to the scores of petty kings the Andals encountered in the South when they arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Furthermore, the Ryders ruled the Rills before the Ryswells. Likely a reference to the horseherds of the area, after which the original Ruling House probably took its name. The Blackwoods ruled the Wolfswood. And the Warg King of Sea Dragon Point had greenseers in his service! Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well yeah, Boltons bend knee 6000-3000 years ago, then Andals arrive. Plus Bolton wouldn't be rebelling unless they were sworn to the Starks, otherwise it'd just be a war. It seems to me that's Starks first expelled magic form the area, especially other wargs and skinchangers, which seems to suggest that they wanted warging supremacy perhaps. I wonder if the wolfswood was called the Blackwood when the Blackwoods still owned it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It seems odd that the Starks had such an adversarial relationship with the Children. The Warg King of Sea Dragon point is said to have had Children and greenseers on his side in his war against the Starks. Why would the Starks see the Children as enemies, rather than allies? Especially given Brandon Stark's close relationship with them way back at the start of it all? Unless there were many different factions among the Children... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Oh yeah, that'd be the reason, even after the signing of the Pact I'd imagine the children would remain bitter towards humans, and perhaps Sea Dragon Point is magic related it sure sounds like it. I find the Stark page easy to read, but can transcript it if people wanted if it's still hard for them to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.