TallTyrion Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Dude, WILD PIG! IN ANOTHER AREA. Let's say Coldhands spotted a wild sow and tracked her until she stopped and he could get close enough to kill her. Then he strips the meat, burns the carcass, and heads back. This is entirely possible. It's possible sure but it's not what happened. We know coldhands killed the Nightswatch deserters. We know Summer followed him there and fed on the corpses. What other area is he going to go too? The text says repeatedly that there is no game in the woods. So coldhands took a massive unexplained detour on the way back from the nightswatch corpses too find a pig when he already has a pile of meat right in front of him? Wolves can cover a lot more ground than men so it's hard to believe coldhands would find a pig when summer couldn't even smell one especially since they would have travelled a similar route to get to the deserters and back to Bran. Also Summer hunts the woods for weeks and finds nothing but dead things. We are suppose to believe Coldhands just happens upon a pig? And the fact that the only thing they ate from the"pig" is chunks of meat. If you're in a survival situation you are going to eat every bit of a pig. The head would be roasted, the feet would be picked clean, the bones would be used for broth, at the very least you would eat the liver but there's no mention of any of that. What you wouldn't do is take a few chunks of meat and burn the carcass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony and Weirwood Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 So if Bran ate the people as Summer, would he not also know the same taste as he eats the "sow." Why no "OMG its the human I just ate" moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It's pretty clear that Coldhands brought them human flesh to eat. YUP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 So if Bran ate the people as Summer, would he not also know the same taste as he eats the "sow." Why no "OMG its the human I just ate" moment? Summer ate raw long pig. Bran, Jojen, Meera and Hodor ate long pig roasted over a fire. Raw meat tastes nothing like cooked meat. Also, my impression was that Bran understood that they were consuming human remains but kept that information to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It's possible sure but it's not what happened. We know coldhands killed the Nightswatch deserters. We know Summer followed him there and fed on the corpses. What other area is he going to go too? The text says repeatedly that there is no game in the woods. So coldhands took a massive unexplained detour on the way back from the nightswatch corpses too find a pig when he already has a pile of meat right in front of him? Wolves can cover a lot more ground than men so it's hard to believe coldhands would find a pig when summer couldn't even smell one especially since they would have travelled a similar route to get to the deserters and back to Bran. Also Summer hunts the woods for weeks and finds nothing but dead things. We are suppose to believe Coldhands just happens upon a pig? And the fact that the only thing they ate from the"pig" is chunks of meat. If you're in a survival situation you are going to eat every bit of a pig. The head would be roasted, the feet would be picked clean, the bones would be used for broth, at the very least you would eat the liver but there's no mention of any of that. What you wouldn't do is take a few chunks of meat and burn the carcass. :bawl: :crying: :bawl: :crying: :bawl: Did Summer follow Coldhands immediately or did he stay a while and eat? Random pig that prevents cannibalism. It's a plot gift. It could be the last pig in North-Westeros, much like the last dandelion and last melon in Ice Age. Actually in that situation they would not use all of the pig. They weren't going to be staying there indefinitely and they had to travel light. You take what you need and burn the carcass so it doesn't come after you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 :bawl: :crying: :bawl: :crying: :bawl: Did Summer follow Coldhands immediately or did he stay a while and eat? Random pig that prevents cannibalism. It's a plot gift. It could be the last pig in North-Westeros, much like the last dandelion and last melon in Ice Age. Actually in that situation they would not use all of the pig. They weren't going to be staying there indefinitely and they had to travel light. You take what you need and burn the carcass so it doesn't come after you. If I was ever in a survival situation and someone said "leave that food behind we need to travel light" I would kill and eat them on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Snow Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Whoa. Dark, but I think I'm convinced. They absolutely went cannibalistic there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 There was a stillness to this wood like nothing Bran had ever known before..... From time to time a raven would fly overhead, big black wings slapping against the cold air. Elsewise the world was silent. Bran wore Summer’s body more often than his own; the wolf felt the bite of the cold, despite the thickness of his fur, but he could see farther and hear better and smell more than the boy in the basket, bundled up like a babe in swaddling clothes. Often Bran woke shivering hours before the dawn, listening to the sound of them calling to one another in the distance as he waited for the sun to rise. If there are wolves, there must be prey, he used to think, until it came to him that they were the prey. Where before there had been silence, now he heard: wind in the trees, Hodor’s breathing, the elk pawing at the ground in search of fodder. Familiar scents filled his nostrils: wet leaves and dead grass, the rotted carcass of a squirrel decaying in the brush, the sour stink of man-sweat, the musky odor of the elk. The smells were there. Mansmells. Ashes, Bran thought, old and faint, but ashes. It was the smell of burnt wood, soot, and charcoal. A dead fire. The last of the food that they had brought from the south was ten days gone. Since then hunger walked beside them day and night. Even Summer could find no game in these woods. The scent was strong. A kill, not far. The flesh would still be warm. Slaver ran between his teeth as the hunger woke inside him. Not elk. Not deer. Not this. GRRM may as well be slamming the book in your face shouting "Look at this cannibalism! LOOK AT IT!". The entire chapter is set up doing these two things; explaining how good Summers senses are, and pointing out a complete lack of anything living in the woods bar the group and their crows. That is, right up until Summer can smell the Nights Watch deserters. Summer just cannot smell any game. To default to "plot-gift" is disappointing, because it should be clear that GRRM wants you to read deeper than that. I don't think GRRM would do something so asinine as gift a pig to Bran to make him survive. I mean, look at that last quote again. The scent was strong. A kill, not far. The flesh would still be warm. Slaver ran between his teeth as the hunger woke inside him. Not elk. Not deer. Not this. Like, this is a BIG clue. Summer isn't smelling game. He can't smell any pig or sow that should supposedly be wandering nearby (the bodies of the Nights Watch are still warm, so Coldhands can't have walked off very far). I think the logical conclusion from reading that chapter is that a direwolf can't smell game, and Coldhands provided meat after killing humans. Ergo, the meat came from the humans, one way or another. And again, I'm thinking Summer would know if there was a pig/sow smell nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 If I was ever in a survival situation and someone said "leave that food behind we need to travel light" I would kill and eat them on the spot. LOL. In this series, you would not have time to eat the entire person before the Others came, unless it was Tyrion. Regular survival is different from North-Westeros survival. I concede that in my hypothetical cannibalism-free scenario he could have taken some extra bacon, just not the whole pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaworth'sShipmate Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well I hope he did not have indigestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Chase Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 This is like arguing whether or not Dolores Umbridge was raped by a bunch of centaurs. The text does all it can to tell you without saying it up front.They ate Black Crow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Here's a theory, the NW deserters had killed the last of craster's wife/daughters so all they had left to have sex with was the pig. So as they were adventuring through the haunted forest with their sex pig in tow they spotted Bran and co. who had a real woman with them so the NW deserters took off after them. Coldhands sees them through the ravens and heads out to kill them. The pig runs away scared and eventually coldhands finds the sex pig and butchers it. At this point the pig is far enough that summer cant smell it. BOOM! theory turns real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Here's a theory, the NW deserters had killed the last of craster's wife/daughters so all they had left to have sex with was the pig. So as they were adventuring through the haunted forest with their sex pig in tow they spotted Bran and co. who had a real woman with them so the NW deserters took off after them. Coldhands sees them through the ravens and heads out to kill them. The pig runs away scared and eventually coldhands finds the sex pig and butchers it. At this point the pig is far enough that summer cant smell it. BOOM! theory turns real. ahahaha, made me LOL at work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmane Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Of course they ate human meat. Bran also did it while warging, he probably also ate Jojen-stew later. When you are becoming the greatest warg of the century (milenium?) canibalism is a minor isue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Here's a theory, the NW deserters had killed the last of craster's wife/daughters so all they had left to have sex with was the pig. So as they were adventuring through the haunted forest with their sex pig in tow they spotted Bran and co. who had a real woman with them so the NW deserters took off after them. Coldhands sees them through the ravens and heads out to kill them. The pig runs away scared and eventually coldhands finds the sex pig and butchers it. At this point the pig is far enough that summer cant smell it. BOOM! theory turns real. I could get behind that. Except I'd have the pig run away before the women are killed so it doesn't have to suffer any abuse from those craven sickos. Of course they ate human meat. Bran also did it while warging, he probably also ate Jojen-stew later. When you are becoming the greatest warg of the century (milenium?) canibalism is a minor isue. That was not BRAN eating the human meat, it was Summer. Bran was aware of it, but it does not count as cannibalism. Jojen is still alive (according to the app) so the stew idea is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 LOL. In this series, you would not have time to eat the entire person before the Others came, unless it was Tyrion. Regular survival is different from North-Westeros survival. I concede that in my hypothetical cannibalism-free scenario he could have taken some extra bacon, just not the whole pig. People can still butcher animals north of the wall and not worry about them coming back as wights. Also people need to eat as much in Westeros as they do in the real world so it's not a different survival scenario from that perspective. They also still had the elk at this point so it's not like carrying it is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Jojen is still alive (according to the app) so the stew idea is out. Jon is dead according to the app. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Jon is dead according to the app. Just saying. Nope I could get behind that. Except I'd have the pig run away before the women are killed so it doesn't have to suffer any abuse from those craven sickos. Horrible things happening to good people is a hallmark of teh series. Those of a porcine nature should not be excluded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 People can still butcher animals north of the wall and not worry about them coming back as wights. Also people need to eat as much in Westeros as they do in the real world so it's not a different survival scenario from that perspective. They also still had the elk at this point so it's not like carrying it is a problem. Really? Are there examples in the text of people butchering animals north of the Wall since all the wighting started? I don't remember any. What about all the dead animals who have been wighted? You don't think any of them were killed for meat? They were not on an extended trip with no end in sight. They only needed enough nourishment to get them as far as the cave. So no it's not exactly like your classic survival situation. And in a classic survival situation you don't have to worry about dead bodies rising up and killing you anyway. Yes they had the elk, but did they have a way to secure the meat to the elk? I don't recall a lot about extra paper or fabric and string in the text. Nope. Horrible things happening to good people is a hallmark of teh series. Those of a porcine nature should not be excluded True. The app has been edited to list Jon's fate as unknown. But...but...I like pigs! :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 The App was edited to show what was written in the books, that he was stabbed. As for the pigs, I like them too, especially when they are bacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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