alienarea Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The explanation as to who the white walkers really are of course :cool4:They are of course Wampas. Just the cgi got better. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 While conversely of course the Nights Watch are supposedly free men, yet they are effectively enslaved by their oath. And actually... I'm not sure this is right, BC. The brothers of the Night's Watch are bound to the Wall for life. It's not freedom, but the loss of it, that's associated with taking the black... and actually, now that I think of it in that way, the act of "taking the black" often turns out to be the very illustration of what it means to "live a slave" rather than to "die free." That's made clear by the fact that so many of the men in the Night's Watch were forced to make the choice between execution and exile on the Wall. With that in mind, there is actually a good bit of support for the idea that oath-taking represents a form of slavery (or servitude, at least). And once again, namelessness appears to be an integral part of the analogy. The connection comes up during the Unsullied "sales pitch": “I have heard that in the Sunset Kingdoms men take solemn vows to keep chaste and father no children, but live only for their duty. Is it not so?" “It is," Arstan said, when the question was put. "There are many such orders. The maesters of the Citadel, the septons and septas who serve the Seven, the silent sisters of the dead, the Kingsguard and the Night's Watch…" "Poor things," growled the slaver, after the translation. "Men were not made to live thus. Their days are a torment of temptation, any fool must see, and no doubt most succumb to their baser selves. Not so our Unsullied. They are wed to their swords in a way that your Sworn Brothers cannot hope to match. No woman can ever tempt them, nor any man.” His girl conveyed the essence of his speech, more politely. "There are other ways to tempt men, besides the flesh," Arstan Whitebeard objected, when she was done. "Men, yes, but not Unsullied. Plunder interests them no more than rape. They own nothing but their weapons. We do not even permit them names." It is also is concretely recognized in the maester's chain, here: "I remember once I asked Maester Luwin why he wore a chain around his throat... He told me that a maester's collar is made of chain to remind him that he is sworn to serve..." (1.41) And here: "I am only Aemon, sire. We give up our House names when we forge our maester's chains." (3.78) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urrax2 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 The explanation as to who the white walkers really are of course :cool4: Oh, that. Not Craster's boys. It is known. :commie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 As a practical matter, for many of the brothers, the Nightswatch appears to be little more than a lifetime prison sentence that they are serving in lieu of even harsher penalites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Oh, that. Not Craster's boys. It is known. :commie: By who? :commie: :commie: :commie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmaid7 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I got to agree with FFR on this and i guess it adds to Snowy's point.Going to the Wall versus lossing a hand for taking a bit of bread.Ehh i think i'd keep my hand.When it comes to the human occupation of the Wall and those who serve there, i kind of think of the Oath by which the brothers are bound as a prison without walls.There are aspect of slavery that is scarecly looked at and it has to do with how the enslaved percieve their "chains" if they percieve them at all. I would say that is an aspect of the relationship that the Starks have with their Direwolves that really highlights being "bound to". We have Jon in ADWD when Ghost obviously got to big to share his bed commenting that when Ghost started sleeping on the ground "for once he didn't have wolf dreams",which goes to show even his dreams weren't his own as Ghost was sleeping at the foot of his bed..Plus him and Bran constantly in mental battle trying to convince themselves they aren't "wolves" such is the intensity being 'slave' to another creature's mood,feelings even their dreams. To go back to the OP and the KOW and what we theorized might have gone down all those years ago are they and the likes Bran and BR slaves and in what capacity are they participants.Do they percieve or have ever percieved their chains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Frye Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Let's see: Jon Snow--Slave at the WallSansa Stark--Pawn of Cersei, then Joffrey, then Olenna Tyrell, then Littlefinger.Brandon Stark--Imprisoned on a weirwood throne, slowly turning into a tree, being fed JojenpasteArya Stark--Trying to become no one (like an Unsullied)Rickon Stark--Being raised by a savage nanny It sounds like Rickon is the only one left with anything resembling freedom of action. He also has Shaggydog to rip an arm off of anyone who annoys him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Frye Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 What is the Heart of Darkness? I think you mean Heart of Winter... Anyway, Bran can't be the Winged-Wolf & the Night's King... Sorry... Heresy seems to be trickling into other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Let's see: Jon Snow--Slave at the WallSansa Stark--Pawn of Cersei, then Joffrey, then Olenna Tyrell, then Littlefinger.Brandon Stark--Imprisoned on a weirwood throne, slowly turning into a tree, being fed JojenpasteArya Stark--Trying to become no one (like an Unsullied)Rickon Stark--Being raised by a savage nanny It sounds like Rickon is the only one left with anything resembling freedom of action. He also has Shaggydog to rip an arm off of anyone who annoys him.No no, you forgot Robb. He's free... of everything. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Frye Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 No no, you forgot Robb. He's free... of everything. :eek: Last crackpot said that he is living a second life in Grey Wind. Mayhaps, his human body will be taken by both Renly Baratheon and Tywin Lannister to fight Deaddard Stark and Khal Drogo, who will be inhabiting Jon Snow's body, according to a reliable source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Last crackpot said that he is living a second life in Grey Wind. Mayhaps, his human body will be taken by both Renly Baratheon and Tywin Lannister to fight Deaddard Stark and Khal Drogo, who will be inhabiting Jon Snow's body, according to a reliable source.I no longer trust you. You said mayhaps. Still... they really oughta release Heart of Darkness as an audio book, don't you think? It's not right to deny people access to great literature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Frye Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hey, he can get it at Audible, read by none other than Kenneth "F***ing" Branagh, Legend of Gin Alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Heresy seems to be trickling into other threads. :commie: :commie: :commie: Yeah... I'm not sure whether this is down to sheer longevity [three years old next month] or whether we've started to become respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Going off on a slight tangent, when I nipped back to check the OP date of the first heresy I came across this long-forgotten gem by Efilnikufesin : One thing I took as a hint that the Wall's protection works the opposite of what we think, is that it does allow the Others to control wights on the opposite side of the wall, whereas Jon/Ghost cannot sense Summer on the other side.Edit: Maybe it doesn't work the same, but Bloodraven is able to reach out to Bran and many weirwoods across the Wall as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Re: World of Ice and Fire: We ask that people wait until the official release date -- October 28th -- to dig into discussing the book. At that point, threads discussing the book in details in this sub-forum should begin with [spoilerS] at the start of the title, and the titles should not themselves be spoilers. Posts mentioning content from the book should use spoiler code as appropriate.The spoiler period for TWoIaF is one month, rather than our usual 3 month policy with new ASoIaF releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I no longer trust you. You said mayhaps. Still... they really oughta release Heart of Darkness as an audio book, don't you think? It's not right to deny people access to great literature. There is a bonus audio version available through Kindle if you download the book first. I had provided a link near the beginning of the Heart of Darkness thread. I think the book and audio cost me $2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hey, he can get it at Audible, read by none other than Kenneth "F***ing" Branagh, Legend of Gin Alley.There is a bonus audio version available through Kindle if you download the book first. I had provided a link near the beginning of the Heart of Darkness thread. I think the book and audio cost me $2.Well, who'd have guessed? That's fantastic!I'm not used to such quiet Heresies. What's everyone doing? Also... How do we handle the World Book topics in these threads? Are we supposed to wait a month after release date? Or just use spoiler tags, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Spoiler tags if anything come up in the course of this thread. I'll incorporate a spoilers warning in the heading for the next one so that we can just let rip as usual. Don't worry about the current one. Saturday is always quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Frye Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 You know that Spoiler Queen Alysanne could tell us a great deal, but she is curled up somewhere, enjoying her ill-gotten gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snowfyre Chorus Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 You know that Spoiler Queen Alysanne could tell us a great deal, but she is curled up somewhere, enjoying her ill-gotten gain.You can find some interesting tidbits online already. There's a reasonably lengthy outline on the friendship b/w Tywin Lannister and Aerys Targaryen posted somewhere on Tumblr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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