119 replies to this topic

[Darth Rivers]

Fire Eater, on 26 March 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

I don't think Valyrian steel is titanium alloy, it bears a resemblance to Damascus steel with the ripples and legendary strength and sharpness.

I don't think so, because it is both lighter than steel, and apparently doesn't rust.

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GRRM said the seasons lasting for years is due to magic.

Cheater!

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

In my opinion the Doom had some volcanic aspects to it but the volcanoes erupted because of more magical reasons. Just like the long night and the seasons. There's also the fact that there's demons and nobody has survived a trip to Valyria and back (except for Euron), as the Lannister sword can confirm.
Just like with LOST and other sci fi/fantasy universes some things are better left unsaid. Now that doesn't mean I don't want to know about it but it might be GRRM's view. However I don't think that we will learn all about the Others, Long Night, Asshai, The Shadow, The Doom and all those other mysteries in two books, I think that's stuff that can be used for more novels since some don't directly relate to ASOIAF as much as other mysteries do.
On a separate note, I also think that's in part why the Citadel is trying to get rid of a world with magic, because magic in the wrong hands can causse disastrous things.

[Fire Eater]

The Imp With A Pimp Limp, on 01 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

On a separate note, I also think that's in part why the Citadel is trying to get rid of a world with magic, because magic in the wrong hands can causse disastrous things.

Magic can be dangerous in the wrong hands, but so can science, and to be completely fair, anything is dangerous in the hands of a human being.

The Imp With A Pimp Limp, on 01 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

In my opinion the Doom had some volcanic aspects to it but the volcanoes erupted because of more magical reasons. Just like the long night and the seasons. There's also the fact that there's demons and nobody has survived a trip to Valyria and back (except for Euron), as the Lannister sword can confirm.

Actually Euron only claims he went to Valyria, it is hinted in AFfC that it's actually a lie.

The Imp With A Pimp Limp, on 01 April 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Just like with LOST and other sci fi/fantasy universes some things are better left unsaid. Now that doesn't mean I don't want to know about it but it might be GRRM's view. However I don't think that we will learn all about the Others, Long Night, Asshai, The Shadow, The Doom and all those other mysteries in two books, I think that's stuff that can be used for more novels since some don't directly relate to ASOIAF as much as other mysteries do.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, mystery draws you and keeps you wondering and asking questions; it is much more intriguing than what is known, as what is known is often taken for granted. The mystery surrounding the Others helps to make them more scary and frightening. As the old adage goes: some mysteries are best left unsolved.

Edited by Fire Eater, 07 April 2012 - 08:51 PM.

[mor2]

Do we have an official name for the war/conflict waged by Volantis following the doom?


EDIT:
Additionally do we have infomarion on New Ghis? I doubt that valyria would ever allow it, after giving Ghiscar them the 'Carthagenian" treatment. So it would seems that it was founded or more likely renamed after the doom, in an attempt to re-establish the Ghiscari empire of old.

Edited by mor2, 08 April 2012 - 05:16 AM.

[7V3N]

mor2, on 08 April 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Do we have an official name for the war/conflict waged by Volantis following the doom?

Many call it the Bleeding Years, the aftermath of the Doom. I also have called it the Rise of the Elephants or the Fall of the Tigers. Those are more for the time period, not the "war" itself.

Edited by The Shadow Fox, 08 April 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[mor2]

I have seen few people call it that way, but nothing by GRRM or any of the canon materials. So how official it is?

[dragonfire613]

The Shadow Fox, on 08 March 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

You know nothing TheImpDaddy.

EDIT: I can't believe so many people think it was just a volcanic eruption. Demons now occupy the area, the sky is still red, the water still boils, and Euron is the only one who has supposedly returned from Valyria. Something much bigger happened.

Really, so if nobody returns from the sea where the demons live, how do we know the demons live there? Because certainly no one has ever made up an explanation for something they can't explain, right?  Volcanoes underwater = boiling seas, poisonous vapors bubbling up that would kill any human.  The volcanoes we know are still active (ash in sky = red sky?).  So no common sailor who saw death by poisonous gas out of a boiling sea could construe that to be the work of demons surely? Seriously, it was a magically-induced/magnified volcanic eruption on a grander scale than anything on earth.  Its fantasy! But still volcanic in nature.

[Werthead]

mor2, on 09 April 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

I have seen few people call it that way, but nothing by GRRM or any of the canon materials. So how official it is?

'Bleeding Years' comes from the Guardians of Order RPG. Based on the context, presumably it's from the GRRM-derived material (Ran might know more on that). However, in ADWD the term 'Century of Blood' is used instead, which may superscede the other term (and certainly has more canonical value, as the novels top the RPGs).

[W.A.Wilson]

Guys I think GRRM is sitting and laughing someplace over this analysis of the Doom. I think you can't see the forrest for the trees. The Doom was a combination of a massive earthquake, volcanic eruption, and ensuing tsunami. The land has been broken up, charred, and hardened. Victarion finds out on the Isle of Cedars that a massive 700 foot wave swallowed the island following the Doom. I mean duh, there was an earthquake, which caused a massive volcanic eruption, and created a tsunami. The land split from the earthquake and is now like any other place devastated by such an event.

[W.A.Wilson]

This is an example of man creating a myth to explain a great event. No magic was involved. Just good ole' fashion legend.

Edited by W.A.Wilson, 07 May 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[The Lady Snow]

I have to wonder if there is a chance that in the years since the Doom, if there were any possible survivors or folks who have moved in since then, could there be people or a someone who is in Valyria, possibly utilizing magic or stumbling upon useful information left behind?  Is this at least even possible?  I think that anything is possible considering not a soul (except Euron, if you believe that) has been there and back since....maybe those who go near or to Valyria aren't given a choice if they want to return home....

[The Lady Snow]

Furthermore, is there any chance Gerion Lannister is not dead and just searching for info/treasures in the area?  I've seen folks metion this possibility and with Martin you can never trust anyone is dead or alive or won't show up again.  Perhaps he has even come into contact with Euron at some point...random thoughts I know, but wanted to throw them out there.

[2 Stags Short of a Dragon]

First post here, so take it easy on me.  My theory on the source of the Doom is that the Faceless Men tossed as many dragon eggs as they could get thier hands on into the volcanic chambers beneath Valyria.  This could also explain the presence of fire wyrms as well as the disapperance of dragons from the known world other than what the Targaryens were able to take with them.  Supposedly, Summerhall was destroyed by trying to hatch 1-3 dragon eggs with fire.  What might happen when thousands, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dragon eggs meet molten lava?

[Fire Eater]

2 Stags Short of a Dragon, on 14 May 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

First post here, so take it easy on me.  My theory on the source of the Doom is that the Faceless Men tossed as many dragon eggs as they could get thier hands on into the volcanic chambers beneath Valyria.  This could also explain the presence of fire wyrms as well as the disapperance of dragons from the known world other than what the Targaryens were able to take with them.  Supposedly, Summerhall was destroyed by trying to hatch 1-3 dragon eggs with fire.  What might happen when thousands, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dragon eggs meet molten lava?

You're saying the lava burnt off their wings and made them burrow through underground, like a bird losing it's wings means it'll burrow through earth? The Kindly Man told Arya that the firewyrms were in Valyria before dragons if the old tales can be believed, and that firewyrms were responsible for some of the deaths of slaves. The firewyrms are a completely different species from dragons. Plus, Summerhsll didn't succeed in hatching any dragon eggs.

P.S. Welcome to the forum

Edited by Fire Eater, 14 May 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[Werthead]

Quote

I have to wonder if there is a chance that in the years since the Doom, if there were any possible survivors or folks who have moved in since then, could there be people or a someone who is in Valyria, possibly utilizing magic or stumbling upon useful information left behind? Is this at least even possible? I think that anything is possible considering not a soul (except Euron, if you believe that) has been there and back since....maybe those who go near or to Valyria aren't given a choice if they want to return home....


Furthermore, is there any chance Gerion Lannister is not dead and just searching for info/treasures in the area? I've seen folks metion this possibility and with Martin you can never trust anyone is dead or alive or won't show up again. Perhaps he has even come into contact with Euron at some point...random thoughts I know, but wanted to throw them out there.

Anything is possible. People refuse to sail within sight of Valyria and the few who go exploring there mostly do not return (Euron being an exception), so what's actually going on in Valyria is open to question.

Given it's proximity to Meereen, the set-up work done in ADWD (with Tyrion seeing the fires of the Doom lighting up the clouds), the potential presence of Gerion and the possible value of going there to find out more about dragons, the horn etc, I would not rule out a visit to Valyria before the end of the series.

[Fire Eater]

Werthead, on 16 May 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Anything is possible. People refuse to sail within sight of Valyria and the few who go exploring there mostly do not return (Euron being an exception), so what's actually going on in Valyria is open to question.

Given it's proximity to Meereen, the set-up work done in ADWD (with Tyrion seeing the fires of the Doom lighting up the clouds), the potential presence of Gerion and the possible value of going there to find out more about dragons, the horn etc, I would not rule out a visit to Valyria before the end of the series.

I agree except I don;t think Euron got the horn from Valyria, he got it from the Qartheen warlocks who planned to use it to control Dany's dragons. Then there is this scene from AFfC implying Euron didn't visit Valyria:

Quote

"I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria." . . . "Have you?" the Reader asked, so softly. Euron's blue smile vanished. "Reader," he said into the quiet, "you would do well to keep your nose in your books."

[UngentleHeart]

It's always seeemed to me that Valyria, dragons, the doom, and the related mysteries are symbolic of what happens when men (and women - for once!) harness and attempt to control the potentially destructive power of, well, The Universe. It's a classic allegory, and makes perfect sense in this context:  Valyria unlocks the secrets of magic and dragons and such, and becomes dangerously powerful.  But power like that is not for humans to control, and when they try to exploit it, to rein it in, to keep it "pure," the consequences are profound.  The smoking sea is a testament to that.  

Woah - just had a thought:  if dragonfire, and its source, were analogous to atomic energy, could The Others be analogous to black holes - heat and light that have imploded and become forces of cold and darkness?  A little out there, but I like the big themes...

[UngentleHeart]

It's always seeemed to me that Valyria, dragons, the doom, and the related mysteries are symbolic of what happens when men (and women - for once!) harness and attempt to control the potentially destructive power of, well, The Universe. It's a classic allegory, and makes perfect sense in this context:  Valyria unlocks the secrets of magic and dragons and such, and becomes dangerously powerful.  But power like that is not for humans to control, and when they try to exploit it, to rein it in, to keep it "pure," the consequences are profound.  The smoking sea is a testament to that.  

Woah - just had a thought:  if dragonfire, and its source, were analogous to atomic energy, could The Others be analogous to black holes - heat and light that have imploded and become forces of cold and darkness?  A little out there, but I like the big themes...

[Daughter of the Morning]

The Lady Snow, on 08 May 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

I have to wonder if there is a chance that in the years since the Doom, if there were any possible survivors or folks who have moved in since then, could there be people or a someone who is in Valyria, possibly utilizing magic or stumbling upon useful information left behind?  Is this at least even possible?  I think that anything is possible considering not a soul (except Euron, if you believe that) has been there and back since....maybe those who go near or to Valyria aren't given a choice if they want to return home....

I really like this idea. And like Werthead said, anything is possible at this point...

I don't think it can only be a natural disaster that caused the Doom, mainly because I think more people would have got away. I mean, they rode dragons. When the eruptions would have started to happen, they would have been able to fly away, some may not have even been there when it happened. If it was just a volcanic eruption that sunk the peninsula we can assume that there are (or were) surviving Valyrians still living somewhere in the world.

Edited by Daughter of the Morning, 22 June 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[Maia]

Daughter of the Morning, on 22 June 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

If it was just a volcanic eruption that sunk the peninsula we can assume that there are (or were) surviving Valyrians still living somewhere in the world.

We know that there are surviving Valyrians - Volantys and Lys are full of them, no? The question is why none of the other dragon-owning families survived. One would have thought that there would be a few dragons stationed throughout Essos on a routine basis, to maintain order, etc. Why that wasn't the case during the Doom is intriguing indeed.