Northern attack on the Twins?

[TallTyrion]

I was wondering what people thought about the possibility of a Northern Army marching against the Twins at some point in The Winds of Winter or maybe the next book? Obviously this is contingent on Stannis taking out the Boltons.

I think certain events are lining up to make this possible. The Westerland force in the Riverlands is getting smaller everyday as soldiers return home. Tarly's army at Maidenpool has been relocated to the capital. The Freys sent about 2000 men North with Roose which I believe is roughly half of their levies. And Jamie has commanded that all the Red Wedding hostages be removed from the Twins. Moreover, the majority of the Crown's forces will be needed to fight either Aegon or the Ironborn in the south.

The Twins is the Northernmost castle in the Riverlands sharing a border with the Neck. A Northern army could march right down the King's Road to attack the Twins and any pursuit of their eventual retreat could be harried by attacks from the Craggonmen in the Neck and stopped at Moat Callin.

After rescuing the Ned's "daughter" turns out to be a bust Stannis may need a new goal to unite Northern Support behind him. Marching on the Twins may just be the right move to bring the Northern lords to his cause.

So is this possible? Could Stannis gather a force large enough to take a castle like the Twins? And could a Northern army, under the command of Stannis, take the Twins before reinforcements from the crown arrive? Finally, is another battle even logistically possible given that Winter has arrived?

[Chaircat Meow]

It's certainly possible but I don't really see northern armies returning to the south during the course of the last books. Other posters do of course. I think revenge against the Freys will be had by Stoneheart.

[Tysha's New Man]

It's entirely possible. Stannis will be seen as a hero in the north if he proclaims House Stark will be their liege lord (if they can find one) and killing the Boltons. With Jaime releasing the prisoners at the Twins, this sets up what could be another rally of northern men against the south. I do not think they'll get much further than the Twins though.

If Stannis marches on the Twins, he'll have a better than not chance of rallying the Riverlands and also the Vale. If the Lords Declarant declare for Stannis, their combined forces would be enough to possibly take KL.

[Barty]

The Twins will fall to LS or the BF

[Lee-Sensei]

The Northmen have a lot to deal with right now. I think LS will get revenge on the Frey's. Although if Stannis led the Northmen in an attack on the Frey's he'd have a better chance of rallying the Northern Lords and River Lords to his cause. The Frey allies are to busy dealing with their own problems and no one else cares one way or the other.

[morgan1213]

I feel the Blackfish would be a fitting end for the Freys. He's a Tully, Hoster's brother.. so he has seen the Freys be er, lacking in their duties before. And really, after the conversation between Blackfish and Goldenhand well... imagine him and Walder.. heh

[James Crow]

Nymeria and her wolf pack are more than capable of taking care of the infestation at the twins

[Universal Sword Donor]

Roose and Tallhart said it best:

“That cannot be assaulted, my lords,” Roose Bolton announced.

“Nor can we take it by siege, without an army on the far bank to invest the other castle,” Helman Tallhart said gloomily. Across the deep-running green waters, the western twin stood like a reflection of its eastern brother. “Even if we had the time. Which, to be sure, we do not.”

Unless the North the Riverlords to seige the other side of the castle, and likely prevent the Freys from dishing, I don't really see what good attacking/besieging them would do.

[Dragon in the North]

I would prefer a Northern attack on the Twins to Lady Stoneheart and the Brotherhood, tbh, but that's just me.

[TallTyrion]

Roose and Tallhart said it best:

“That cannot be assaulted, my lords,” Roose Bolton announced.

“Nor can we take it by siege, without an army on the far bank to invest the other castle,” Helman Tallhart said gloomily. Across the deep-running green waters, the western twin stood like a reflection of its eastern brother. “Even if we had the time. Which, to be sure, we do not.”

Unless the North the Riverlords to seige the other side of the castle, and likely prevent the Freys from dishing, I don't really see what good attacking/besieging them would do.

Good point. My main question was if an attack could be successful. A prolonged siege is out of the question since they can't block both sides and don't have the supplies anyway. Roose doesn't think they can assault it with Robb's army which is larger than anything Stannis will have.

The formidability of castles isn't really consistent in the series though. Gregor is able to seemingly storm castles at will throughout the Riverlands. He puts Darry and Stonehedge to the torch in quick succession. We don't have a description of either castle but Raventree hall is probably a good comparison for Stonehedge since they are rivals. Raventree has massive stone walls, a moat, and a series of other fortifications. Stonehedge is probably similarly fortified and Gregor takes it with a relatively small host.

Robb's army also had no siege weapons which makes storming a castle impossible. Stannis would plan to storm the castle so he would bring battering rams and other siege engines. Could The Twins be assaulted if the hosts were prepared to storm the castle?

[TheNinjaDC]

One way, or another, I see the Twins falling do to an inside job. Either Jamie, SH, Blackfish, Arya, or Greatjon living up to his family siguel.

The doors will be left opem, or an army snuck in. Either way, the Twins will make the river flow red. It is known.

[RainGhost]

I can't see the northmen marching south in winter. They don't have the men and they have their own problems. Besides, there's plenty of Freys up north for them to slaughter. It wouldn't be fair to deprive the river lords, Nymeria's pack and LS from their slice of vengeance (pies). It may not be necessary anyway - the Freys may take each other out in the Frey civil war.

[DarkSister1001]

Nymeria and her wolf pack are more than capable of taking care of the infestation at the twins

:agree: Is it too much to ask for a scene where Nymeria pounces on the Late Walder Frey and shoves him into a well, the way Dunk wanted too?

[Universal Sword Donor]

Good point. My main question was if an attack could be successful. A prolonged siege is out of the question since they can't block both sides and don't have the supplies anyway. Roose doesn't think they can assault it with Robb's army which is larger than anything Stannis will have.

The formidability of castles isn't really consistent in the series though. Gregor is able to seemingly storm castles at will throughout the Riverlands. He puts Darry and Stonehedge to the torch in quick succession. We don't have a description of either castle but Raventree hall is probably a good comparison for Stonehedge since they are rivals. Raventree has massive stone walls, a moat, and a series of other fortifications. Stonehedge is probably similarly fortified and Gregor takes it with a relatively small host.

Robb's army also had no siege weapons which makes storming a castle impossible. Stannis would plan to storm the castle so he would bring battering rams and other siege engines. Could The Twins be assaulted if the hosts were prepared to storm the castle?

You could try. I certainly wouldn't want to.

The Green Fork ran swift and deep here, but the Freys had spanned it many centuries past and grown rich off the coin men paid them to cross. Their bridge was a massive arch of smooth grey rock, wide enough for two wagons to pass abreast; the Water Tower rose from the center of the span, commanding both road and river with its arrow slits, murder holes, and portcullises. It had taken the Freys three generations to complete their bridge; when they were done they’d thrown up stout timber keeps on either bank, so no one might cross without their leave.

The timber had long since given way to stone. The Twins—two squat, ugly, formidable castles, identical in every respect, with the bridge arching between—had guarded the crossing for centuries. High curtain walls, deep moats, and heavy oak-and-iron gates protected the approaches, the bridge footings rose from within stout inner keeps, there was a barbican and portcullis on either bank, and the Water Tower defended the span itself.

One glance was sufficient to tell Catelyn that the castle would not be taken by storm. The battlements bristled with spears and swords and scorpions, there was an archer at every crenel and arrow slit, the drawbridge was up, the portcullis down, the gates closed and barred.

Even if the Freys only had a portion of their forces, say the normal garrison of 400, you are going to get thousands of men killed, likely just by taking one of the twin castles, let alone both and the water tower. We might get a better look in the WOIAF, but I can imagine something close to the 50% casualties like the Lannisters apparently suffered at DS.

[UtherSnow]

The matter of Winterfell must come before any thoughts turn towards The Twins. There will be a number of Freys dealt with during the course of the battles for Winterfell. It won't be one all-out charge, because it's totally out of the question. Logistically and tactically, it points more and more towards a number of actions.

News of the loss of almost, if not, all of the Freys at Winterfell for Ramsey's wedding will reach The Twins. That will prove to be too much for Old Walder to handle. Croak. Gargle. Splutter. The trouble will start within the ranks of The Freys then, resulting in an internal family feud for their fair share of Old Walder's wealth. That's going to do more harm to House Frey than The Twins being raided.

What can make so many smile about this is that The Freys can't roll up late for their own battles. It will be too late for any that do. Irony can be so wonderful at times.

All that anyone needs to do is wait. Before too long gates for either tower will open, with those wanting to leave with whatever they've been able to get their hands on making a swift exit.

For those that want some action from Nymeria's Pack, this would be the appropriate time. In the process, Nymeria gets her revenge for Grey Wind. What chance would there be of Ghost meeting up with Nymeria? That would be really something to see.

[Dimples]

I don't see the Northerners marching south now that winter is coming. But if they do, they will be royally fucked when the Others come.

[Universal Sword Donor]

The matter of Winterfell must come before any thoughts turn towards The Twins. There will be a number of Freys dealt with during the course of the battles for Winterfell. It won't be one all-out charge, because it's totally out of the question. Logistically and tactically, it points more and more towards a number of actions.

News of the loss of almost, if not, all of the Freys at Winterfell for Ramsey's wedding will reach The Twins. That will prove to be too much for Old Walder to handle. Croak. Gargle. Splutter. The trouble will start within the ranks of The Freys then, resulting in an internal family feud for their fair share of Old Walder's wealth. That's going to do more harm to House Frey than The Twins being raided.

What can make so many smile about this is that The Freys can't roll up late for their own battles. It will be too late for any that do. Irony can be so wonderful at times.

There are three Freys in WF, 2 if you consider Walda a Bolton now. And we already know

[spoiler]Aenys Frey is already dead as of Theon I in AWOW[/spoiler]

[TallTyrion]

You could try. I certainly wouldn't want to.

The Green Fork ran swift and deep here, but the Freys had spanned it many centuries past and grown rich off the coin men paid them to cross. Their bridge was a massive arch of smooth grey rock, wide enough for two wagons to pass abreast; the Water Tower rose from the center of the span, commanding both road and river with its arrow slits, murder holes, and portcullises. It had taken the Freys three generations to complete their bridge; when they were done they’d thrown up stout timber keeps on either bank, so no one might cross without their leave.

The timber had long since given way to stone. The Twins—two squat, ugly, formidable castles, identical in every respect, with the bridge arching between—had guarded the crossing for centuries. High curtain walls, deep moats, and heavy oak-and-iron gates protected the approaches, the bridge footings rose from within stout inner keeps, there was a barbican and portcullis on either bank, and the Water Tower defended the span itself.

One glance was sufficient to tell Catelyn that the castle would not be taken by storm. The battlements bristled with spears and swords and scorpions, there was an archer at every crenel and arrow slit, the drawbridge was up, the portcullis down, the gates closed and barred.

Even if the Freys only had a portion of their forces, say the normal garrison of 400, you are going to get thousands of men killed, likely just by taking one of the twin castles, let alone both and the water tower. We might get a better look in the WOIAF, but I can imagine something close to the 50% casualties like the Lannisters apparently suffered at DS.

I think you may be correct here. The casualties would simply be too high to justify storming it. I suppose the only way to take the castle would be to besiege it from both ends with help from the River Lords. With the Freys controlling Riverrun and Seaguard that just doesn't seem possible at the moment.

[Universal Sword Donor]

I think you may be correct here. The casualties would simply be too high to justify storming it. I suppose the only way to take the castle would be to besiege it from both ends with help from the River Lords. With the Freys controlling Riverrun and Seaguard that just doesn't seem possible at the moment.

I expect Seagard to be freed from Black Walder in short order, mostly by him leaving to take the Twins from his brother, but I suspect Riverrun will be bottled up once Edmure, or his son, is freed. The Freys are definitely in for a a windfall of corpses, well another one.

[Dragon in the North]

If Nymeria's wolf pack are involved in the downfall of the Twins, I wonder if we'll see it in Arya's POV.