Video Game Culture VI Justice for all... social or not

[daskool]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/24/gamergate_targets_gawker_online_misogyny_levels_up.html

You've got admire the chutzpa of complaining and criticizing GGers for using the exact same methods and tactics that SJWs have been using against their perceived enemies for years. Consumer boycotts? Well that's censorship! (Except when we do it). Trolling on twitter? That's silencing alternative views. (Except when we do it). That's the thing about bullies, they tend to fold into a fetal position and scream like 5 year olds when someone has the balls to stand up to them.

[Shryke]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/24/gamergate_targets_gawker_online_misogyny_levels_up.html

You've got admire the chutzpa of complaining and criticizing GGers for using the exact same methods and tactics that SJWs have been using against their perceived enemies for years. Consumer boycotts? Well that's censorship! (Except when we do it). Trolling on twitter? That's silencing alternative views. (Except when we do it). That's the thing about bullies, they tend to fold into a fetal position and scream like 5 year olds when someone has the balls to stand up to them.

The irony is so thick, but I know you haven't the ability to understand it.

[Gears of the Beast]

I don't really disagree with much in that post, I'm not 100% on board with the way he phrases it, so I'll phrase it my own way: I reject the notion that (as Anita puts it) "women are being institutionally oppressed all the time in nearly every facet of our lives". It's not that I think those 'tropes' don't exist, I don't think they're indicative of any kind of sexism and I definitely don't think they have any kind of demonstrable affect on consumers (how they perceive women etc etc). Video games are rife with lazy tropes (so is film and TV for that matter) - the vast majority probably don't have anything to do with women. I definitely agree with this: "And don’t, for the love of God, act like nobody in the game industry is capable of a single discerning thought…that unless someone comes along and stomps that shit down right now, we’ll all just mindlessly nod our heads and follow along". I don't think her critique actually has much of an effect on anything and not only are the people who act like it does a little loopy but, as this guy says, they are assuming game devs are just mindless idiots. This is just demonstrably false, look at the founder of Warhorse Studios for example:

Assassin’s Creed had 5 different articles about its lack of a female character on the front page of an industry website in one day. Five! Next to each other. And we can continue: the Far Cry 4 cover “scandal,” Stanley Parable was accused of racism, Wildstar was accused of sexism, God of War, Hotline Miami, Bioshock, Divinity Original Sin, Witcher…And they will never be happy. If you don’t have a gay character in your game, you are homophobic, if you do have gay character in your game, you are homophobic, because they don’t like the character. If women in your game look good, you are sexist, if they look bad, you are sexist, if you can fight with them, you are misogynistic, if you can’t fight with them, you are using them as objects, if you don’t have any women, because there is no correct way how to have them, you are misogynistic.

Developers definitely know how to ignore bullshit, they've put up with an amazing amount of screeching from angry gamers - like me. I've gone off on my fair share of developers on Twitter (fuck you David Vonderhaar) they just block/ignore you and continue making their games. There's no need for critique to ever be silenced and I don't think many of the people who disagree with Sarkeesian are trying to silence her, most of them probably just say 'this is bullshit' and move on with their life. A lot of the more vocal Sarkeesian alarmists hold up "atheism+" as an example of "them" trying to take over gaming - "look what they did to the skeptic/atheist community". That is bullshit, they haven't taken over the skeptic/atheist community at all. "Atheism+" was completely ignored because it's fucking stupid. I guess I don't fit neatly into your generalisation of what a gamergater is - sorry about that.

edit: this is directed at Inigima's post btw, there were like 9 posts while I was writing

[Shryke]

I reject the notion that (as Anita puts it) "women are being institutionally oppressed all the time in nearly every facet of our lives".

You don't have to keep reminding us how absurd your position is. We picked up on it like 3 threads ago.

[Shryke]

Amazing:

http://wondermark.com/c/2014-10-24-1071offend.png

From: http://wondermark.com/

[Darzin]

For those of you still complaining about how gamersgate is really about gaming ethics. It didn't start out about that, and it's not seen as about that by practically anyone outside the movement. So even if it's true doesn't it bother you to be seen as agreeing with this.

Gamergate, a diffuse but relentless online anti-feminist movement aimed at drubbing feminist women out of game development and criticism,

At this point, no one in the media is bamboozled by the lies and obfuscations of Gamergaters, who, like the Know-Nothings of 19th century, prefer to play dumb to outsiders about their real goals.

A bunch of squalling from an online army of mostly teenage boys and social maladepts who are worried that girls are going to ruin the experience of playing Call of Duty. These people don't speak for the majority of anyone-—not gamers, not computer users,

This is from the Slate article I posted, Slate not Salon or some bullshit like that explaining what gamersgate is to people who don't know. Whatever you think this movement stands for, everyone else thinks it stands for something else so if you truly care about ethics in game journalism find another banner cause this one is irrecoverably tainted even from its very inception with misogyny.

[andrew_]

As an avid gamer, I only just found out about #gamergate today lel woops.

In my opinion, I don't care about any of it.

The End

[eyenon15]

But you HAVE to care, the internet is like prison. If you don't join one of the gangs then ur dead!!!

You have to either be a bossy feminist man hater or an angry antisocial male. Only two options, you must choose, padawan.

Internet Mafias are serious!! You can't go around flaunting indifference or having crazy notions of there being a gray area to any topic or issue!!!

[andrew_]

Can I join the "lets be nice to one another and play games together" team?

[eyenon15]

Nope, that's the angry sexist male team. Because you aren't outraged that the games are utterly sexist.

[JRose1989]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/10/24/gamergate_targets_gawker_online_misogyny_levels_up.html

You've got admire the chutzpa of complaining and criticizing GGers for using the exact same methods and tactics that SJWs have been using against their perceived enemies for years. Consumer boycotts? Well that's censorship! (Except when we do it). Trolling on twitter? That's silencing alternative views. (Except when we do it). That's the thing about bullies, they tend to fold into a fetal position and scream like 5 year olds when someone has the balls to stand up to them.

...except....except....

Bullying and generalization based on opinions that aren't liked is the ENTIRE REASON THIS WHOLE THING STARTED.

And don't bother with the 'Nahh...nah it's about JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY.' If you honest to God believe that's the reason this whole thing started, you are mistaken. It started because of a jilted ex bitching about his mean nasty girlfriend to anyone who would listen, and the people listening just happened to be sexually frustrated 'gamers' who took this opportunity to scream at anyone who would listen saying 'SEE?? Girls ARE dumb!'

Any time anybody tried to 'justify' their stance, I simply ask them if it IS in fact all about journalism ethics, why where absolutely NONE of the men involved Doxxed, or harrased, or threatened, or run out of their own homes...or had any backlash at all?

Nah, they cool coz they have dicks yo.

Now, you can say that SJW's have been JUST as threatening to the poor innocent Gaters, and I am all in favor of being held accountable for your actions regardless of which 'side' you are on but to sit there and try to pretend that Gaters have it worse is laughable.

No 'Gater' as far as I know has been physically driven from their homes, and threatened with mass shooting murder for having the audacity to show up and speak to the public.

If it has happened, please link me to it and I will denounce it to the fullest extent of my person....but I think the fact that three separate people have felt so threatened for their lives they have had to call in the police and leave their homes is something that CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be swept aside with a statement like 'Yeah but someone gave out this guys e-mail....'

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved with this...dammit woman!! :bang:

[BigFatCoward]

is this really an actual thing? shit, i'm pleased my most recent console is a PS 2 which is covered in dust.

[eyenon15]

I'm still not convinced it's a thing away from the internet.

Although There are scarce reports that people talk about this in real life.

[Seli]

Yeah, Gears of the Beast calling Chris Kluwe not a real gamer is fairly amusing. If he isn't I'm not sure what is a real gamer.

That is one bit of it. But there is also the 'know nothing ignorant bit', which I've seen bandied about a lot by gg supporters. Their basic claim seems to be that everyone that opposes them has been misled by the media, because that is clearly the only source they had.

Which ignores that many people, including Kluwe, are speaking from a long personal experience. They are part of the culture around games, and have seen its issues with diversity and language first hand and have seen how groups within gaming can operate.

[mormont]

What's the worse case scenario for gamers? That we go back to being an ostracized minority?

No, not at all. For one thing, that's simply not ever going to happen. Gaming is now way too culturally embedded and developed for that. 'Gamers' are not now and won't ever be again a minority.

No, the worst case scenario for those who call themselves 'gamers' is that they don't own that label in the way they used to, that the label now covers all sorts of people who're not like them and don't share their views, and that they don't have gaming companies and the gaming press falling over themselves to cater for them any more. And that 'worst case scenario' is actually coming true.

And that, as far as I can see, is what 'Gamergate' is actually about.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I'm still not convinced it's a thing away from the internet.

Although There are scarce reports that people talk about this in real life.

The whole thing is like a parody of first-world problems

It's all there - oppression olympics, video games, sex scandal, accusations of trolling and impotent threats from both sides, angry feminists, angrier young men...it'll be a goldmine for cultural scholars thousands of years from now.

[Inigima]

A few morning tidbits.

Here is a drilldown of subscriber similarities between r/KotakuInAction, one of the primary #flibberdrat hangouts, sorted from most similar to least. Raise your hand if you're surprised!

A tumblr mocking the "Actually, it's about ethics in video games journalism" line. Lots more good ones that haven't made it to that site yet, though. Here's another site that's collected some good ones.

Can I join the "lets be nice to one another and play games together" team?

Yes, that is the side that isn't sending mass death threats to women.

[Cold Crashing Waves]

The whole thing is like a parody of first-world problems

It's all there - oppression olympics, video games, sex scandal, accusations of trolling and impotent threats from both sides, angry feminists, angrier young men...it'll be a goldmine for cultural scholars thousands of years from now.

Seriously. The entire thing is so incredibly stupid.

Too bad a few degenerate weirdos had to go and make some false threats to blow up Anita and give this thing legitimacy.

[andrew_]

I really don't like that Anita S lady and it has nothing to do with her ultra pro feminist agenda. She reminds me of an ex girlfriend, it's scary :dunno: She's got this non threatening demeanor, but you know behind closed doors she's bat shit crazy, just like my ex. I know it's completely irrational and stupid, but whenever I hear that voice and watch her videos, I instantly get flashbacks to that shitty time in my life *shudders*. It's annoying because I really like a lot of what she says too.

Anyways, IGN just put in their two bits on the situation for the first time publicly, http://au.ign.com/articles/2014/10/24/on-the-problem-of-harassment

[Inigima]

I really don't like that Anita S lady and it has nothing to do with her ultra pro feminist agenda. She reminds me of an ex girlfriend, it's scary :dunno: She's got this non threatening demeanor, but you know behind closed doors she's bat shit crazy, just like my ex. I know it's completely irrational and stupid, but whenever I hear that voice and watch her videos, I instantly get flashbacks to that shitty time in my life *shudders*. It's annoying because I really like a lot of what she says too.

Anyways, IGN just put in their two bits on the situation for the first time publicly, http://au.ign.com/articles/2014/10/24/on-the-problem-of-harassment

How do you "know" this?