TiltedAxis Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Hello everyone, just registered for this forum though I've been reading it for a little while, some great insight overall, and some not so great insight. But anyways... I'd like to talk about the tyrion/cersei relationship a bit, and how I believe tyrion is just as cruel and awful to his sister as she is to him (if not more so) Yes, cersei did treat him like shit throughout his life, she can't help but associate him with her mother's death, and of course believes that he will eventually be the death of her. Now I realize none of that is "rational" persay, but it gives you a bit of insight into her mind - that aside however... When Tyrion finally has some real power outside of being a rich lannister, and is made hand of the king in place of his father for a time, what is one of the first acts he has done? He takes his sister's child, the thing he KNOWS his sister cares most about, one of the few things she cares about at all - and takes that child away from her. How awful is that? imagine someone taking your child away from you without your permission, now imagine that person is your own brother. Of course marriages were arranged all the time, but Cersei was not even consulted about the decision, he just made it all on his own. "But stannis was coming to attack kings landing, he was protecting her!" Oh bullshit, he sent her to DORNE. Now whether or not he actually believed dornish people would hurt a child is irrelevent, he KNOWS the dornish hate the lannisters, and he sends them a lannister princess, his sisters daughter, against her will, the moment he has the power to do something like that. To me, that seems like an incredibly cruelly designed form of revenge, far worse then anything cersei had done to him prior. Oh, and one last thing. The valonqar is Stannis. This isn't based off any of the characters current positions / speculation for future positions but rather the wording alone. If we assume this prophecy is correct, then we must take it into context properly "Will the king and I have children" "16 you him, 3 for you" etc. etc. and then "the valonqar will wrap his hands around your neck... etc etc' THE little brother. It can't apply to cersei - she has two little brothers. Using the word "the" in this context doesn't make sense. But who else was just being discussed? The king - robert baratheon - who has one living little brother. Forgive the grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 He takes his sister's child, the thing he KNOWS his sister cares most about, one of the few things she cares about at all - and takes that child away from her. How awful is that? None at all. All her children should have been taken away from her for their own good, Cersei's a truly horrible mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiltedAxis Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 None at all. All her children should have been taken away from her for their own good, Cersei's a truly horrible mother. How is she an awful mother, please elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How is she an awful mother, please elaborate.She wants Tommen to become like Joffrey. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiltedAxis Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 She wants Tommen to become like Joffrey. Nuff said. ...No she doesn't? She acknowledges how awful joffrey was, and like a good mother loved him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 ...No she doesn't? She acknowledges how awful joffrey was, and like a good mother loved him anyway.Because he was apparently all she could've been if she were a man. Also, Cersei should'ev tried to IMPROVE Joffrey instead of pampering him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiltedAxis Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Because he was apparently all she could've been if she were a man. Also, Cersei should'ev tried to IMPROVE Joffrey instead of pampering him. She did try... Just wasn't very successful. You can't blame a mother for a sociopath. He was beyond help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How is she an awful mother, please elaborate. Oh, you haven't read the books. OK, no biggie.“Ser Boros, His Grace has forgotten himself. Kindly escort him to his bedchamber and bring up Pate. This time I want Tommen to whip the boy himself. He is to continue until the boy is bleeding from both cheeks. If His Grace refuses, or says one word of protest, summon Qyburn and tell him to remove Pate’s tongue, so His Grace can learn the cost of insolence.” If you think that's anything other than sadistic children abuse, then I'm afraid it'll be impossible for us to find common grounds. ...No she doesn't? She acknowledges how awful joffrey was, and like a good mother loved him anyway. Cersei acknowledges how awful Joffrey was? Where? When? Quotation sorely needed. (And please don't quote any television shows.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 It must be said. The Lannisters of this time are all quite horrible in one way or many. None at all. All her children should have been taken away from her for their own good, Cersei's a truly horrible mother. yeah because Tyrion was definitely taking Myrcella away to protect the kids, right? Oh no, he was doing it for political reason. Plus, he threatened to rape Tommen. Just throwing it out there, that's worse than anything Cersei has done to her children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jellybean Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Now I like cersi's character, she's intetesting and complicated. However cersi loves her children and even jamie on how much they can do or reflect on her. Even in got its remarked on how sweet the younger two are compared to joff and its surmised they are that way cuz cersi and robert had little to do with them. Now to tryion and cersi, first tryion cares for his niece and they loved him as well. He had to make allies cuz joff took off the head of roberts biggest allie. He needed to make sure dorne didnt rebel as well, and lets face it the lannisters really pissed off dorne during RR. The only way to make sure dorne didnt either a. Rebel or b. Stay at home was to bring them into the family. And since it did not work out well the last time a dornish princess went to KL the princess had to go to dorne. Now if cersi had any forethought at all she would understand this but she doesnt, so yet again she blames tryion. Sides if tryion really wanted to hurt her he had so many other ways to do so Make sure twyin, robert or the realm found out about the twincest for one. If he really wanted to hurt her. Sending the princess to dorne was just politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiltedAxis Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 I'd much rather discuss tyrion and cersei's relationship & the situation I posted in the original post rather than whether or not you think cersei is a good mother. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiltedAxis Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 It must be said. The Lannisters of this time are all quite horrible in one way or many. yeah because Tyrion was definitely taking Myrcella away to protect the kids, right? Oh no, he was doing it for political reason. Plus, he threatened to rape Tommen. Just throwing it out there, that's worse than anything Cersei has done to her children. Exactly - thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeThemBurn Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I'm not a fan of Tyrion because his arrogance and disrespect is extremely off putting. But I find it quite a stretch to compare him to Cersei. The latter is motivated only by selfishness, which makes her one of the least interesting characters to me. I just can not be interested of someone who's only interested in personal gain.At least Tyrion shows some empathy towards other people. Unfortunately his arrogance pushes through his empathetic decisions aswell. He only helps "broken things", in other words people who he pities and can look down on. But anyone who is showed having any strength and self-esteem is doomed to get only sarcastic comments and malice from Tyrion. It's like the man has to tear everyone down. The only person he respects is his brother (who is far from being a saint).But I find the actions he takes in Clash of kings as a sign that the man is good despite it all. Yes, he clashes with Cersei but I feel like he does only what is necessary. Never is it told that Tyrion gets any sick satisfaction after sending Cersei's children away. But what is most telling about the colour of Tyrions soul is how he works as the Hand to feed the people of King's Landing and to save the city from Stannis. All in all, Tyrion is bitter and petty but he's not cruel like his sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How is she an awful mother, please elaborate. You have just outed yourself as a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 It must be said. The Lannisters of this time are all quite horrible in one way or many. yeah because Tyrion was definitely taking Myrcella away to protect the kids, right? Oh no, he was doing it for political reason. Plus, he threatened to rape Tommen. Just throwing it out there, that's worse than anything Cersei has done to her children. He used it as a casual throwaway remark, he didn't mean it. And yeah, a passing remark is not worse than everything Cersei has done to her children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 He used it as a casual throwaway remark, he didn't mean it. And yeah, a passing remark is not worse than everything Cersei has done to her children. And what has she done to her children? She is not a good person by any means but she hasn't done anything to her children that is anything worse than what Tyrion has done to her or other people. And plus, Tyrion being a rapist doesn't really help that "throwaway remark" claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 And what has she done to her children? She is not a good person by any means but she hasn't done anything to her children that is anything worse than what Tyrion has done to her or other people. And plus, Tyrion being a rapist doesn't really help that "throwaway remark" claim. I don't think Tyrion has done anything as bad as some of the things Cersei has done, what's your point? You're comparing Cersei's treatment of her own children against everything Tyrion has done in the entire series? Somebody said she was a bad mother, so the correct comparison would be to compare her to the parenting styles of other parents in the story, not compare her treatment of her children to Tyrion's responses to Cersei and other awful people on top of some terrible acts of his own making. Additionally, it was fairly clear he was being fecetious with the comment, so no his later rapes don't necessarily effect that throwaway claim. It was an over the top, vindictive joke out of the mouth of Tyrion, not an actual threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I don't think Tyrion has done anything as bad as some of the things Cersei has done. What's your point? Tyrion and Cersei are both atrocious human beings. It just takes a bit more observation to see that Tyrion is equally as monstrous. Tyrion is just more subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cory Trevor Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 How is she an awful mother, please elaborate. Just look at how she treats Tommen when he runs away from Tywin's funeral because he had to go right up to the corpse of his visibly rotting and disgustingly smelling grandfather (like any 8 year old would do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sertravisredbeard Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I know taking Myrcella away was harsh, but I also thought Tyrion had a few different motives for it. It did a political goal of making a supposed new alliance, and the reason he told Cersei of protecting Myrcella by sending her away. But I also think he could have decided to send Myrcella away to protect her from her mother. One Joffrey was all the family needed. Even later Tywin was trying to separate Cersei from her last remaining child to lessen the mother's corrosive influence. Tyrion might have faults, but sending Myrcella away wasn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.