United North Question?

[Shadow Cat 75]

If the North and the Wildlings would unite under a new King of the North/King beyond the Wall, say Jon Snow if he comes back what would it look like? How would Jon bring the two sides together since it didn’t really work when he was Lord Commander of the Watch?

The Wildlings have been raiding south of the Wall for thousands of years after being born on the wrong side of the Wall and the Northern Lords have been fighting them for the same amount of time. These two sides have so much in common when it comes to religion, knowing what winter is like and overall culture but the Wildlings do not bend the knees to Lords just because they were born a lord. It would work if Jon was their leader since he has proven to them that he strong but what happens after that.

They will fight and die together against the others but what happens after they are defeated? We see some Wildlings taking on parts of Southern culture when house Thenn was created in a Dance of Dragons does that mean that all the wildlings will make new houses and become more like the North the Southern part of Westeros knows? Would Wildlings start building castles and towns North of the wall if they force the Others back to the lands of always winter and would a more original version of the old god religion come back to the Southern part of the North?

Also this isn’t even taking into account the Giants which have a totally different culture all together.

So what are your ideas about how the North would change after the war for the dawn?

[OberynBlackfyre]

I actually made a thread on this not too long ago, but am pleased that people are still looking at what might happen.

-First and foremost I think that much of the North will be decimated in terms of population. They have already fought a war in which they lost badly, and now will probably fight a war among themselves until either the Boltons or Stannis (or both) will be defeated. That being said I think that with the inclusion of Wildlings, the population in the North will only be slightly lesser than before the Wildlings came down from Beyond the Wall.

-As far as religion goes I think the Old Gods will ALWAYS rule the North and it's even somewhat foreshadowed by what Theon said in his chapters in ADWD. Whether or not Bran will be the "acolyte" of the Old Gods is yet to be determined since we don't know what role he is truly playing in the War of Dawn II. However we MIGHT see some new Houses accept the Red God (as House Thenn supposedly has).

-I think that the economy of the North might change up a bit as the things that have occurred in the past couple of years shows that it behooves the North to have some Southron allies in order for safety and just mutual benefit. Especially since the South will know there ARE things you need to be afraid of that come from the North.

[King of Winter-ish Stuff]

I certainly hope that the Wildlings become integrated in the North. House Bolton is treacherous, and I believe they command about 2-3 really small (super tiny really) houses, the Ryswells and Dustins might need replacing along with the houses that swear loyalty to them. I want to see Tormund Giantsbane receive the Dreadfort for following Jon Snow (who I ultimately think will be ruling at the very least the North if not the whole realm). House Thenn will probably get Karhold just because we haven't really seen much of Harrion (so I'm taking this to mean that he is as good as dead in TWoW). I do believe Wildling integration will take place in the North.

[kimim]

Wildlings are great. I can see them influencing the North in all manner of healthy ways, possibly starting some type of althing that unites various factions.

Re wildlings and other northerners: They might start out snarling at each other, but once the Others show up, or once the dragons show up, they'll probably put their differences aside. A family that slays together, stays together.

[TallTyrion]

I can't imagine the wildlings and Northmen coexisting under the same King after the Other threat has passed. The deal Jon and Tormund established can work if the Watch doesn't screw it up. They fight together to protect the wall till spring and remain on the gift during that hold time.

As you say say the wildlings have been raiding the North for a long time. One of the Norreys brings up kin he has lost to the weeper and the women that have been raped and killed when he is talking with Jon. The Umbers and any Northern house would have similar experiences. I'm sure every wildling village has similar stories about black crows swooping in and killing their families.

I also can't see the Northern Lords going for wildling integration. If anything the northern nobility would want to heavily discriminate against the wildlings.

Finally, I don't think most wildlings want to integrate into the North and live as kneelers. The only reason they left their homes was because of the Others.

[the storm king returns]

I believe the Wildlings will be integrated into the North, House Thenn will get Karhold and Tormund Giantsbane will receive the Gift where he will build a Hold/Castle. The Northern Lords won't like it at first but after fighting a war against the others will accept the Wildlings and even if the lords still don't accept them they will be expected to keep the KITN peace or loose there heads and land to another Wildling Lord it's there choice ......

[Lord Damian]

Lets call it like it is. The Northmen live by honor code with lord and ladyship and mostly worship the old Gods. The Wildings mostly worship the same old Gods but are thieves, cutthroats and kidnappers who make no appologies for doing any of it. Something has gotta give for there to be harmony.

[Jon Ahai Targeryan]

ofcourse houses like the Boltons and freys will need replacing but unlees jon wins the IT i dont see it happening soon coz the being king in the north is out of the question since there are his Stark siblings before him plus if R+L is true then he is not even Neds kid.But for those wildlings who refuse to bendva knee then the NW is always accepting coz i dont see them going beyond the wall after the WW attack.i also believe those wildlings who went back to the Valley of the thenns are probably wrights by now and arent coming back.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Well considering that for every 100 Northmen there is at most 1 Wildling, it won't affect the North in any significant way.

[Dr. Qyburn]

The wildlings and the northmen are common in many ways except the wife stealing and rigid knees part.

A KITN or a Warden of the north would have to find a way for the wildlings to live peacefully with other Northeners without ignoring both cultures.

If the wildlings remain in the gift and start cultivating there (is the land arable? I'm not sure) that might stop or reduce the level of raiding coz I don't think the wildlings raid just for kicks. It seems to me that they do it becuase the land beyond the wall isn't arable.

The wildlings living there can also be given the option to vote for their Lord/Leader and opt not to kneel in his presence if that bothers them that much.

Then as to the wife stealing bit, the wildlings may only be allowed to steal among each other (since the wildling girls seem not to mind) and if a wildling wants a northern girl, he would have to court her/ask the father's permission first then "steal" her as a form of ritual.

It also seems like the Wildlings and Northmen spread a lot of myths about each other, so if some wildlings are say, invited to the harvest celebrations with other Northmen, they can interact with each other on neutral ground and find that they aren't that different.

The older people may not like it at first and resist but I think if the King/Lord of winterfell is firm and both sides compromise, the Wildlings and the Northmen can find a way to co-exist.

[TheNinjaDC]

The state and need for the wall post long night 2.0 will determine allot.

That said, many Wildings will be offered land (mostly the gifts), which many will take up never wanting to return north of the wall.

Ice zombies tend to detract a lands value after all.

In the long term, I see them becoming like the mountain clans. Clear upper leadership, but loose foundations below that (high mobility lifestyle).

[Hammermen's Revolt]

Although I agree with some of the above posts that it's almost impossible to imagine the both of them coexisting after the Other threat is gone (people tend to exaggerate the common ground a lot), I find it equally unimaginable that the wildlings would just quietly move back to the forsaken harsh lands beyond the wall, now that they're in the relatively fertile north-but-south-of-the-wall.

[Irish]

If the North and the Wildlings would unite under a new King of the North/King beyond the Wall, say Jon Snow if he comes back what would it look like? How would Jon bring the two sides together since it didn’t really work when he was Lord Commander of the Watch?

The Wildlings have been raiding south of the Wall for thousands of years after being born on the wrong side of the Wall and the Northern Lords have been fighting them for the same amount of time. These two sides have so much in common when it comes to religion, knowing what winter is like and overall culture but the Wildlings do not bend the knees to Lords just because they were born a lord. It would work if Jon was their leader since he has proven to them that he strong but what happens after that.

They will fight and die together against the others but what happens after they are defeated? We see some Wildlings taking on parts of Southern culture when house Thenn was created in a Dance of Dragons does that mean that all the wildlings will make new houses and become more like the North the Southern part of Westeros knows? Would Wildlings start building castles and towns North of the wall if they force the Others back to the lands of always winter and would a more original version of the old god religion come back to the Southern part of the North?

Also this isn’t even taking into account the Giants which have a totally different culture all together.

So what are your ideas about how the North would change after the war for the dawn?

Well, the idea of nobility is still prevalent in the North. The Thenns follow Sigorn after his father's death, despite having no real actions behind him. He even "southernizers" into forming House Thenn when he marries Alys Karstark.

The Wildlings will follow Jon (or Mance when they find out he's alive), and within a generation or two, they'll have become relatively domesticated. The Northern lords also don't seem to take their subjects for granted, like the other Houses do, and the Starks have a cult following in the North. I'm sure the majority will honour their Lords wishes.

Oh, and the fact that the Starks are wargs could also play a large part. They were Kings in Winter, they're a family of wargs which could bridge the gap between the Wildlings and the "normal Northmen".

The common religion might also unite them. For instance, when Jon's party come into the Godswood north of the Wall, they find a party of Wildlings. Rather than fighting each other, like they had done mere days before, they both pray and then Jon convinces them to come back to the Wall with him.