Do you see ancient history as fact?

[Makrell]

Do you and/or the people on this forum view every bit of ancient history as fact? Spesifically everything that happened during the age of heroes and much of what happened afterwards till aegons landing.

The characters themselves seem more doubtful of ancient history than the posters on this forum IMO.

For example i see people all the time claim brandon the builder built the wall and storms end, even though with both the wall and storms end the characters say it is unlikely and many men built it without brandon.

Another example is all the stories of AA, nights king and so forth, why does everyone believe they happened, and why did they happen they way the stories claim? The characters themselves just say they are old wives tales, and see them not as fact. This isnt LOTR werre they are superhistory writers and everything said is fact.

[Roose Trollton.]

No, I don't believe them because as you say the characters themselves are wary regarding the reliability of older stories.

I believe the "Heresy" threads deal exactly with that, challenging myths that have become orthodoxies among fandom - Haven't taken my time to read one yet.

[m'lady Melisandre]

You shall compare that stuff to the things told in the Bible on regard of ancient civilizations history: not everything is accurate, there are elements which have been enriched with fantasy material, but when historians had put those things under test they found a great share of truth at least from historical perspective.

Obviously folk here likes to throw away everything he is being told in the book 'cause they like things upside down they way they are, absolute relativism is fashion these days.

[MakeThemBurn]

History is always subjective.

[kimim]

History is always subjective.

Not always. I grew up in Istanbul. That the city once belonged to Byzantium is fact, as is its conquest by the Ottomans in 1453. It's a fact that the Byzantine emperor was Constantine XI, and the Ottoman sultan was Mehmet II. Why it was conquered then is subjective, along with a zillion other questions, but the basic facts--that it was conquered, when, and by whom, are not.

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

Characters also believe Others to be Myth.

They also dont believe that CotF exist.

but that doesnt mean Others/CotF dont exist.

[DamoDega]

Winners write history, you will ever get one side of the story

[Lord Damian]

Everyone thought Troy did not exist until it was found and identified. Soddom and Gamorah have also been found and evidence supports their destruction. Same with Jericho. There may be some stretching, especially when info is passed down verbally for generations and centuries, even millenia before committed to paper. However, in the context of this story, the only place where history is viably questioned by people involved in the same history is when Sam tells Jon that he is supposedly the 998th lord commander when he can only find records (including him) that account for less than half that number. Maybe it is nothing but I doubt it. If GRRM wrote it, it must mean something, somehow.

[A Man Has Said]

I think it helps to think of the siege of Troy. For centuries, the Iliad was considered to be a work of fiction by Homer, but fairly recently I've read that there is archaeological evidence that supports something very much like it actually occurred. It is still highly doubtful that it could have occurred as Homer described it though - he would have had to have had reliable sources of information from both sides of the conflict, and that is never the case.

So the best way to look at it (IMnsHO) is to think that "something had to have happened that gave rise to this story."

The best example that comes to mind is the story surrounding the building of Storm's End, and the involvement of the Old Gods of the Sea. Whether those Gods (I think we're supposed to think of them as being prior to the Old Gods that are still worshipped in the North) existed, the castle itself certainly does.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Hell no.

But in most cases, there'll be an original source for the kind of telephone game generating the current histories.

Everyone thought Troy did not exist until it was found and identified. Soddom and Gamorah have also been found and evidence supports their destruction. Same with Jericho. There may be some stretching, especially when info is passed down verbally for generations and centuries, even millenia before committed to paper. However, in the context of this story, the only place where history is viably questioned by people involved in the same history is when Sam tells Jon that he is supposedly the 998th lord commander when he can only find records (including him) that account for less than half that number. Maybe it is nothing but I doubt it. If GRRM wrote it, it must mean something, somehow.

You missed the Andals attacking the Ironborn and the Sistermen being attributed to two or three different dates each, as well as the Maesters discussing it more generally.

[Ingelheim]

Hell no.

But in most cases, there'll be an original source for the kind of telephone game generating the current histories.

You missed the Andals attacking the Ironborn and the Sistermen being attributed to two or three different dates each, as well as the Maesters discussing it more generally.

The arrival of the Andals themselves is not known. Some say 6,000 years ago; others, 4,000. Some even claim hust 2,000.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Ancient history isn't factual ? So the war between Egypt and the Hittites never happen?

[Makrell]

Ancient history isn't factual ? So the war between Egypt and the Hittites never happen?

it did but in westeros stories are written down FAR after the events. the entire age of heroes is a lot less factual amd written down.

imo we dont even know if lann the clever captured castrrly rock in one generation, or if it happened for hundred years

[Universal Sword Donor]

Jesus building the wall and SE with dinosaurs and giants is canon.

If you deny that, you deny reality itself.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

No. Believing its likely Bran built Storms End is not the same as thinking a man married a mermaid and fathered children. I think some are fanciful, I think some are based on fact made fiction. You have to look at more things than the stories themselves.

Not always. I grew up in Istanbul. That the city once belonged to Byzantium is fact, as is its conquest by the Ottomans in 1453. It's a fact that the Byzantine emperor was Constantine XI, and the Ottoman sultan was Mehmet II. Why it was conquered then is subjective, along with a zillion other questions, but the basic facts--that it was conquered, when, and by whom, are not.

The city was Byzantium which was a city of Greeks. The Romans invaded and it was renamed Constantinople, the emperors were Roman not Greek. Then the Ottomans invaded. Byzantium is such a badass name, the Ancient Greeks were amazing.

[eyenon15]

They don't even believe it in the novels.

The Maesters really don't know what happened, so they filled in the huge blanks as best they could.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

They don't even believe it in the novels.

The Maesters really don't know what happened, so they filled in the huge blanks as best they could.

The Maesters didnt create these stories. They are from the First Men, passed through oral storytelling because there was no proper writing system.

I believe some of them. We are told Storms End is magic, its inpenetrable. The only other magic building we know is the Wall. Its fair to connect the two. After all, we are told that everything Old Nan says is true and no one believes her.

[eyenon15]

The Maesters didnt create these stories. They are from the First Men, passed through oral storytelling because there was no proper writing system.

I believe some of them. We are told Storms End is magic, its inpenetrable. The only other magic building we know is the Wall. Its fair to connect the two. After all, we are told that everything Old Nan says is true and no one believes her.

The Maesters are the current historians.

They are far from unified on the events, there is no consensus. Someone is clearly creating parts.

As far as old Nan, only thing I recall is a GRRM quote saying something like a lot of what she says is true.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

The Maesters are the current historians.

They are far from unified on the events, there is no consensus. Someone is clearly creating parts.

As far as old Nan, only thing I recall is a GRRM quote saying something like a lot of what she says is true.

Nan is the repository of all the old First Men oral tales, think of Homer. She represents wisdom fairly clearly, how you should listen and respect your elders.

The maesters aren't making bits up. The level they are at is basically this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_Brittonum

or more comprehensively : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_Regum_Britanniae

[Makrell]

No. Believing its likely Bran built Storms End is not the same as thinking a man married a mermaid and fathered children. I think some are fanciful, I think some are based on fact made fiction. You have to look at more things than the stories themselves.

It isnt, but believing 1 man supervised the buildning of WF SE and the wall in his lifetime is beyond silly IMO Even more so when we consider the distancesand the multiple BIG kingdoms he would cross from one to the other.

The tale of storms end even tries to make bran the builder a boy, which would make even less sense.