TheSpymaster Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 So i have some questions on others ....Dunno whether they have been asked before.. 1) if WW are so hellbent on invading westeros why dont they just cross the bay of seals on ships and invade westeros. Atleast they could send wights via seas... 2) Do they only plan to invade westeros ...or will they also invade ESSOS. Why dont they capture a ship at hardhome and invade essos. 3) In AGOT the wights are pretty powerful on the other side of the wall. so why dnt WW send the monstrously strong wights to scale the wall..?? 4) What if Others are doing a la Ra's al ghul....destroying the wall and westeros as they no longer can stand the coruption... 5) Could the others have a genuine motive to invade westeros...or is killing and wighting their only aim...?? Is there any good in them..?? ( I believe the others have a good side and their motives are much more than just invading westeros and killing people. I think their invasion is a well planned one and is in response to some events triggered by the humans. They could eventually turn out to be good guys or a race that is fighting for its survival. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Wights can't cross the wall, its warded just like the cave the cotf have. They're also no stronger than regular humans, its just that they do not feel pain so they can single mindedly strangle someone and the only way to stop them is to burn them or cut the arms off. Can't really answer any of your other questions, can only speculate. I assume the walls magic extends beyond the actual ice and they cannot cross an invisible line, other wise as you said, what's the point. They could have a decent motive, I know GRRM said he didn't like that the orcs in LOTR were just pure evil with no real motives other than just hating all things not orc, so it seems like there will be more to the WW's. It's my belief they were created by the cotf to kill the humans and drive them back, but that they didn't realize what they were doing and lost control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpymaster Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Wights can't cross the wall, its warded just like the cave the cotf have. They're also no stronger than regular humans, its just that they do not feel pain so they can single mindedly strangle someone and the only way to stop them is to burn them or cut the arms off. Can't really answer any of your other questions, can only speculate. I assume the walls magic extends beyond the actual ice and they cannot cross an invisible line, other wise as you said, what's the point. They could have a decent motive, I know GRRM said he didn't like that the orcs in LOTR were just pure evil with no real motives other than just hating all things not orc, so it seems like there will be more to the WW's. It's my belief they were created by the cotf to kill the humans and drive them back, but that they didn't realize what they were doing and lost control. Thats cool..the Orcs of cotf...Others. :cool4: . The wights did come throught the wall...though they were carried in!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Ya they were carried in by brothers of the nights watch, like how Sam took Bran and co threw the gate at the Nightfort. But they can't cross of their own accord, at least as long as the magic stands, which according to Old Nan is only as long as the brothers hold to their vows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The Others Imo are the personification of winter ,coming out during the cold , dark ,long night and disappearing with the sunrise and spring . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 So i have some questions on others ....Dunno whether they have been asked before.. 1) if WW are so hellbent on invading westeros why dont they just cross the bay of seals on ships and invade westeros. Atleast they could send wights via seas... 2) Do they only plan to invade westeros ...or will they also invade ESSOS. Why dont they capture a ship at hardhome and invade essos. 3) In AGOT the wights are pretty powerful on the other side of the wall. so why dnt WW send the monstrously strong wights to scale the wall..?? 4) What if Others are doing a la Ra's al ghul....destroying the wall and westeros as they no longer can stand the coruption... 5) Could the others have a genuine motive to invade westeros...or is killing and wighting their only aim...?? Is there any good in them..?? ( I believe the others have a good side and their motives are much more than just invading westeros and killing people. I think their invasion is a well planned one and is in response to some events triggered by the humans. They could eventually turn out to be good guys or a race that is fighting for its survival. ) 1. Much like the wicked witch of the west, water causes them to melt. Either that or it takes too long to freeze the salt-water for it to be an effective method of travel. Those are my only guesses on this. 2. According to an SSM I read last week, the Long Night affected the whole world. Westeros just got the worst of it because they are closest to the source of the cold. Don't know about the ship. Maybe they're afraid of what's in the water? Could go back to the wicked witch thing. 3. Wight Men Can't Jump. Strength does not necessarily equal an ability to climb. That involves some serious balance, fine motor skills, and quick reaction times. I really think the Wights lack the ability to climb the Wall. 4. Well then why did they attack 8,000 years ago when there was no Wall and was probably far less corruption? 5. Yes they could. I think Night's King is up to his old tricks again and this time they aren't going to wait 13 years for the humans to get their act together. This time they're taking that little troublemaker down! This is a secondary theory to my primary that the only Others causing any problems are actually working FOR Night's King and that the rest of the Others will team up with Men to deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 So i have some questions on others ....Dunno whether they have been asked before.. 1) if WW are so hellbent on invading westeros why dont they just cross the bay of seals on ships and invade westeros. Atleast they could send wights via seas... They dont want the throne. Theyre concentrating on The Wall, The current Night's Watch, and Winterfell/Winterfell's Crypts 2) Do they only plan to invade westeros ...or will they also invade ESSOS. Why dont they capture a ship at hardhome and invade essos. Niether, they won't invade. They'll be the saviors to fire and blood. 3) In AGOT the wights are pretty powerful on the other side of the wall. so why dnt WW send the monstrously strong wights to scale the wall..?? Perhaps the magic within and beneath the wall prevents them, a la weirwood tunnel, etc. 4) What if Others are doing a la Ra's al ghul....destroying the wall and westeros as they no longer can stand the coruption... Not westeros, but definitely the wall, bingo you got it 5) Could the others have a genuine motive to invade westeros...or is killing and wighting their only aim...?? Is there any good in them..?? I dont think it is, i dont think westeros is any part of what they want. ( I believe the others have a good side and their motives are much more than just invading westeros and killing people. I think their invasion is a well planned one and is in response to some events triggered by the humans. They could eventually turn out to be good guys or a race that is fighting for its survival. ) Even with my theories that they aren't necessarily the "be all end all evil (to me, that's going to be Danaerys)," i certainly wouldnt consider them good. None of the Starks of old were "good," persay. I do believe they were wronged, in their eyes. But certainly not the defenders of rightiousness. There's no such thing, in this story. answers in bold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. Yet. i cant reiterate this enough. even with hbo's slip up, theres nothing to even connect the logistics of Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous22 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 We haven't seem them do much 'evil'. I think it's all to do with a long winter which will act as a great purge in any land that is sufficiently cold. I don't think they need boats, they're dead they could just stroll along the sea floor!The 'others' are shrouded in such epic mystery that it's going to be very exciting when/if they invade and we get a POV showing how they move.Whether they employ strategy or act as some form of plague.Ultimately, they're doomed anyway. The season will change and whatever is left will be rebuilding. There's obviously a lot of vital information missing so we can only speculate. But I love a bit of speculation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 We haven't seem them do much 'evil'. I think it's all to do with a long winter which will act as a great purge in any land that is sufficiently cold. I don't think they need boats, they're dead they could just stroll along the sea floor! The sea floor isn't exactly a highway. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpymaster Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 so now as it is known that wights and others cant cross the wall so we can safely assume they are not the ones who built it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous22 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The sea floor isn't exactly a highway. Just saying.Oh, okay then. There's always somebody that has to point out something tediously obvious. My point, is that they probably wouldn't need boats. Besides, how do you know what is and what is not on the sea floor in Planetos? The Iron Born seem to have a belief system that isn't a million miles away from a fitting explanation.Dead horses are usually pretty ineffective too, unless, you are a supreme magical being that can warp mortal mans conception of what is and what is not possible. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Rhaego Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I don't have much to answer your questions, other than what was already posted, as we simply do not know from the text so far. But I will say that the Others, the long night, the Night's King and so on are probably my favorite part of ASOIAF lore. It's all so interesting, dark, creepy and mysterious. I really hope these things get explored in detail in the coming books, as we almost know nothing about them. I just want to know what the Others have been to since the prologue of the first book, did they fall into a deep slumber? They're the first thing the reader is introduced to, and yet here we are five books later and still know as little as in the beginning. I think it's safe to say that Wights are simply braindead, reanimated corpses with no cognitive abilities. The canon fodder undead army of the Others. Then what are the Others? A different race of humanoids, demons? Are they intelligent beings, do they have a concept of language, how do they communicate? How are they tied to magic and winter? What do they want in Westeros, what drives them to leave their land, are they also fleeing from something? Do they have their own society, do they have a leadership or are they a horde of monsters like orcs (please no)? The short scene with the baby and the Other "council" in the show intrigued me, I want to get to that stuff in the books. Enough of the political game, get ready for the endgame, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Oh, okay then. There's always somebody that has to point out something tediously obvious. My point, is that they probably wouldn't need boats. Besides, how do you know what is and what is not on the sea floor in Planetos? The Iron Born seem to have a belief system that isn't a million miles away from a fitting explanation.Dead horses are usually pretty ineffective too, unless, you are a supreme magical being that can warp mortal mans conception of what is and what is not possible. Just saying.Apart from their source of energy and the brainpower of a sorts, wights use entirely physical means. They'll have to deal with cliffs, jagged rocks, currents, valleys, mountains, swamps and a lot of very difficult landscape (seascape?) not suited to bipedal walkers at all. Unless GRRM specifies otherwise, I'll just assume that everything on Planetos works just like on Earth. Or would you assume that the knees of humans on Planetos bend backwards just because? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 so now as it is known that wights and others cant cross the wall so we can safely assume they are not the ones who built it... no no, i wouldnt assume that at all. just because there's a big chunk of an element they seem to manipulate, after the night's king was driven back, it's possible the watch made a pact with the cotf and together they made the weirwood gate underneath the wall, AFTER the night's king was driven back. to reiterate: We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. Yet. but do NOT discount it, not yet. look at whats in front of you, a huge ass wall of the exact element Others can manipulate. there isnt the slightest possibility, that this was taken from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 We haven't seem them do much 'evil'. I think it's all to do with a long winter which will act as a great purge in any land that is sufficiently cold. I don't think they need boats, they're dead they could just stroll along the sea floor! A deep and biting cold accompanies them. How would they stroll along the sea floor? Wouldn't they come up weighed down with more ice? no no, i wouldnt assume that at all. just because there's a big chunk of an element they seem to manipulate, after the night's king was driven back, it's possible the watch made a pact with the cotf and together they made the weirwood gate underneath the wall, AFTER the night's king was driven back. Actually I disagree with that. I think the Black Gate existed before Night's King. Makes more sense to build it with the Wall than to try and build it underneath an already finished one. It's been suggested (though I don't necessarily agree) that the original vows for the Night's Watch did not include the lines about marriage, lands, and sons. The words also are not included in what is necessary to get through the Black Gate. Also we don't know about NK being driven back. We need to remember that we "know nothing, Jon Snow." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 i just read jon when he first joined the watch and a line sent a shiver down my spine: The chill was always with him here. In a few years he would forget what it felt like to be warm. Dude..... ITS GOING TO HAPPEN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 So i have some questions on others ....Dunno whether they have been asked before.. 1) if WW are so hellbent on invading westeros why dont they just cross the bay of seals on ships and invade westeros. Atleast they could send wights via seas... 2) Do they only plan to invade westeros ...or will they also invade ESSOS. Why dont they capture a ship at hardhome and invade essos. 3) In AGOT the wights are pretty powerful on the other side of the wall. so why dnt WW send the monstrously strong wights to scale the wall..?? 4) What if Others are doing a la Ra's al ghul....destroying the wall and westeros as they no longer can stand the coruption... 5) Could the others have a genuine motive to invade westeros...or is killing and wighting their only aim...?? Is there any good in them..?? ( I believe the others have a good side and their motives are much more than just invading westeros and killing people. I think their invasion is a well planned one and is in response to some events triggered by the humans. They could eventually turn out to be good guys or a race that is fighting for its survival. )1: Maybe they don't know how to build boats or sail. Maybe they tried and got lost. Maybe the wights they sent keep getting eaten by sharks2: See above3: magic. the wights that attacked Jon and Mormont had to be dragged through the wall by people4: By killing and reanimating corpses? Probably not but you never know5: It seems to have something to do with the return of magic to the world. Maybe they want to make the rest of the world more comfortable to them, like buying a fixer-upper house and kiling all of teh mice, cockroaches, rats and spiders and termites living there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Based on what we know happened last time and the ferocity with which they were able to invade, plus the fact the society of the first men was likely not near as developed as current asoiaf, tells me that this move south is one of desperation. Like all the old races, the others are dying out, and this last push is a last battle against extinction. Like men did the first time in the war, they only want to survive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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