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What if. The King's Guard won at the Tower of Joy?


Poppa Chase

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Well for one, Ned does not break the siege at Storms End and Mace Tyrell a Targ loyalist takes the castle of the rebel Robert Baratheon.

Ned broke the siege before the Tower of Joy. I don't see this scenario ending with Jon and the KG living. Bob would find them, and Bob would kill them.

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Then Lyanna has the blood of another family member on her hands. *runs for cover*



Seriously, would Lyanna not have had any authority to tell the KG not to kill her brother? Unless she was a genuine prisoner of course. I've always thought it was so strange that Ned had to kill members of the KG just to be able to see his own sister. Something doesn't add up.


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I believe there's a decent chance the KG were under orders not to kill Ned. It may have been they were trying to kill all his bodyguards and take him alive.

If R+J=L is true than Rhaegar probably didn't want his lovers brother killed.

Being instructed to not kill Ned but taking him alive would be extremely risky. I agree that he would be the one spared but I don't see Ned yielding...Ned also said that Arthur Dayne would have killed him if it were not for Howland Reed. So it appears that Ned truly thought he was about to die.

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Let's say, for argument, that the KG killed Ned & his companions. Would we not assume that Lyanna would still die? From what we can assume from Ned's account, she died after giving birth. So there was little to be done, regardless.



Robert Baratheon would still be out for blood. Now both Lyanna & Ned dead...and if Robert found out that the baby was a product of Lyanna and Rhaegar (assuming there was a baby), he would have killed the baby...therefore no Jon Snow by any name.



Benjen would still be the Lord of Winterfell. Robert would probably still be the King.


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Arthur Dayne would have killed Ned had it not been for Howland Reed. You could argue that maybe he was just wearing him down but I think it's pretty clear it was an all or nothing, kill or be killed situation for all parties.

That's a good point. I've always just been a bit skeptical as to how Ned survived that. Arthur Dayne, who was by most accounts the greatest warrior of his day, and the other Kingsguards were killed. While Ned, who wasn't a great fighter, survived. He had the numbers but still.

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Fast Forward to AGoT, Lord Benjen is asked to be Robert's hand. Lets assume he marries Cat Tully and has the same number of children. Benjen takes on Ned's role dies and his children take on the roles of Robb Bran Sansa and Arya

Baby Robb would be Lord of Winterfell, Benjen would be Lord Protector (assuming he was even old enough for that).

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The KG still would have to leave at some point. With Rhaegar (and probably also Lyanna) dead, they can't do much to protect his heir. The whole "the KG does not flee" is very romantic but also impractical. They can't defend a tower with only three men. Their best chance is to join Rhaella and the other two Targ heirs and regroup.


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Fast Forward to AGoT, Lord Benjen is asked to be Robert's hand. Lets assume he marries Cat Tully and has the same number of children. Benjen takes on Ned's role dies and his children take on the roles of Robb Bran Sansa and Arya

Nope, Benjen would have been acting Lord of Winterfell but once Robb turns 16 he becomes the Lord. He would probably take the black once Robb comes of age.

Cat would have lived as a widow in Winterfell or maybe Riverrun with Robb.

Stannis probably gets the position of Hand when Jon Arryn dies.

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