Jump to content

[Spoiler's All] The Power, In The Blood (Ice & Fire) Random Thoughts:


Blazfemur

Recommended Posts

RANDOM THOUGHTS to get out as i do math in my head:




First Men Blood = The Great Other/Other/Ice


Valyrian Blood = Rh'llor/Dragons/Fire



Craster's Incestual Tendencies = Increase Potency Of The First Men Blood


Targaryen Incestual Tendencies = Increase Potency Of Valyrian Blood



Craster's Babies = Sought Out By The Night's King/Others for Turning


Thoros/Melisandre/Moqorro = Sent Out By Benerro To Robert/Stannis/Danaerys, all who have Valyrian blood



Melisandre's "failed" magic: She assumes, kingsblood is needed to power blood magic, not all kings have Valyrian blood


Mirri Maaz Duur: sacrificed Rhaego, son of Danaerys, who had valyrian blood, to hatch 3 dragons from petrified eggs as blood magic



Now if Varys, is a Blackfyre, it would explain why a sorceror cut his junk off to power his magic (Valyrian blood)



The more incestuous, the more potent the ingredient in the blood.



Food for thought, Lannisters have a diluted andal history, however, Jaime and Cersei inbred Joffrey, Tommen, Myrcella. The 3 children, would have more potent Valyrian blood.



Summerhall tragedy, may be workable with more research and theorizing.





In conclusion, the secret is in the blood, not the House. Stark, and Targaryen, mean nothing, it's First Men blood, and Valyrian blood.



Jon, has both, if R+L=J is true.



The Song Of Ice & Fire, is a combination of the two bloodlines, First Men & Valyrian, not necessarily, Stark and Targaryen.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

As well as, the reasoning behind Brown Ben Plumm feeling "connected" to Danaerys' dragon. Not necessarily a Targ ancestor, perhaps an valyrian ancestor.



Valyrian blood = tame dragons? Hmm, nah, Quentyn was a martell.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andalos =/= Valyria






Yes, Andalos is in fact quite far from Valyria. From what I understand Andals and Valyrians are completely different ethnically. Anyways if you replace Andal with Valyrian I agree with the your post.





Exactly, me too. I think the Andal blood will amount to nothing in the long run


Link to comment
Share on other sites

When kings announce their titles, it's the andals, the rhoyner, and the first men. 2 out of three of these effect my theory, and Dany does state blood of the andals, like ned with first men. Makes me question what rhoyner might be too, green magic? Bloodravens mother, did she descend from rhoyner/ as well as the reeds?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually I have to stand by Andal, believe it or not. Valyria was a place. Valyrian steel may channel andal power, like Weirwood with first men. I stand by it so far.

Now, Marwyn taught mirri her magic, and he's clad in Valyrian steel rings and staff. He supports the andals from the citadel, by default. He has a glass candle, as does quaithe. Unconfirmed if Marwyn the mage supports rhllor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Valaryians are Andals. Ultimately, they are all First men but the First Men are only remembered as a distinct race on Westeros.



Like this:



Humans are all indigenous to Essos - imagine cavemen.



At point A in human evolution some go to Westeros and are known as the First men - imagine stone age people from Earth.



Between A & B is the Long Night, where some of the First men in Westeros became Starks etc but it is still called the blood of the First men.



At point B in human evolution some go to Westeros and are known as the Andals - imagine bronze age people from Earth.



At point C in human evolution some Andals from Essos evolve the Valyrian culture - imagine an iron age civilization that the bronze aged people evolved into.



A note on this Gishcari and Roynari are also Andal related, or from the same people. It's like ancient Babylonia, Greece, Egypt etc - they all came from a common ancestor, which is the same as the First men but they are not First men by then, perhaps it is easier to call them Second men, from a Westerosi perspective. I just see Andal as the blanket term for the second Essos wave.




Stark blood is the oldest 'Royal' blood in both Westeros and Essos, because its basically a line of kings from stone age times. I'm looking at you Night's King for starting that one by breeding with Others :D


Link to comment
Share on other sites

This all translates fairly neatly into Earth parallels if Westeros is a US sized Britain and Essos is Africa and Eurasia squished up into a smaller place. Oh, throw in a touch of magic aswell.



First men/Starks are like Picts that screwed with fairies.



The Andals are like the Saxons (except they go to Britain a long time before the Romans in ASoIaF).



The Gishcari are Egyptian.



The Roynari are Greek.



The Valyrian are magical Romans.




It's not so much Andal or Valyrian blood vs Stark/First men blood as it is First men/Stark blood is different to everyone elses.



My bet - at the time of the Long Night, when the First men in Westeros got down and dirty with the Others, all of the other people were subjected to a different magical effect in Essos - something to do with R'hollor, fire and dragons. Or, alternately, because all people are from Essos they are related to fire, only the First men and Starks are really related to ice.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Valaryians are Andals. Ultimately, they are all First men but the First Men are only remembered as a distinct race on Westeros.

Like this:

Humans are all indigenous to Essos - imagine cavemen.

At point A in human evolution some go to Westeros and are known as the First men - imagine stone age people from Earth.

Between A & B is the Long Night, where some of the First men in Westeros became Starks etc but it is still called the blood of the First men.

At point B in human evolution some go to Westeros and are known as the Andals - imagine bronze age people from Earth.

At point C in human evolution some Andals from Essos evolve the Valyrian culture - imagine an iron age civilization that the bronze aged people evolved into.

This assumes Essos was genetically and culturally homogenous, but the First Men, the Andals, the Valyrians, and the Rhoynar were all distinct ethnicities before any migration to Westeros occurred. Also, the Andals were known as such before they left Essos, and Valyrian culture existed before the Andals migrated. So Valyrians are not Andals are not First Men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This assumes Essos was genetically and culturally homogenous, but the First Men, the Andals, the Valyrians, and the Rhoynar were all distinct ethnicities before any migration to Westeros occurred. Also, the Andals were known as such before they left Essos, and Valyrian culture existed before the Andals migrated. So Valyrians are not Andals are not First Men.

If we use only times provided in the books, there were no Andals, Valyrians, Rhoynar etc when the First men migrated to Westeros. There possibly could have been Ghishcari - there is no reference for how old that culture is.

Also, all humans must have a common ancestor and ultimate genetic homogony, if human evolution in ASoIaF works anything like it does on Earth - of course not culturally, that will develop as groups settle in different places.

Given that the First men are the oldest humans we know of in ASoIaF and that they were relatively stone age and tribal, I'm going with all humans in Essos as being at the same technological level as the First men, at that point in time because:

1) If there was a more advanced culture, you would think they would be doing more migrating.

2) It is consistent with the second wave invasion from Essos being basically bronze age, after 6,000 years or so.

Longer version:

12,000 years ago the stone age First men migrate to Westeros from Essos. There is no proof that all people in Essos are stone age at this time, true - but there is nothing to the contrary either.

6,000 years ago Andals find the faith of the 7, or it finds them, in Essos. Andals learn Iron age tech from the Rhoynar and attribute it to the Smith. This shows that the Andals must have had their faith before they learnt iron working, so the most advanced they could have been 6,000 years ago was bronze age.

Valyrians were sheep herders 5,000 years ago - they lucked out by finding dragons and became magical. There is nothing to suggest that Valyrians were any more advanced than either Andals or First men, at this stage.

Rhoynar knew iron working by around 6,000 years ago. The Roynar also had reasonably equal status for women. The Roynar seem more technologically advanced but this is why I liken them to ancient Greece, as I also liken some of Dornes traits. Ancient Greece is more modern than Ancient Egypt but they were philosophically advanced, this is just different cultural evolution playing out. There is no reason that the Roynar could not have come from the same stock as the First men did.

The Gishcari are the wild card, like ancient Egypt, which some people think aliens helped build just because some of their construction tech seems so monumental for the time it was made. All it does is show me that Gishcari coming from nomadic stone age hunter gatherer types to a massive empire in 6,000 years is not impossible, especially in a world with magic.

In fact, the whole thing seems so close to ancient empires from Earth (with some little tweaks), that I think GRRM just based his anthropology on that to be safe. Robert E Howard did a similar thing with Hyperborea, to make the world anthropologically grounded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This assumes Essos was genetically and culturally homogenous, but the First Men, the Andals, the Valyrians, and the Rhoynar were all distinct ethnicities before any migration to Westeros occurred. Also, the Andals were known as such before they left Essos, and Valyrian culture existed before the Andals migrated. So Valyrians are not Andals are not First Men.

I think we're going to have to wait until "the world's of ice and fire" comes out to be sure but, this is my understanding of it.

By the way the andals are named after a place as well, Andalos. Tryion and Illyrio where near it when they traveling to the little Royne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is true, the world book could make a lot more clear - but it should not change any of the dates we have been given so far. It could add more though.



On that world book, it looks like there is a spoiler here



http://i.imgur.com/VR2j0Xk.png



If this is an official map, it makes me happy in one way because I always thought that the north south distance is larger then most fan maps show it.



But it makes me sad because (possible massive spoilers, though it is just a theory)



Looking at the map made me think 'oh shit, that poster who said the Long Night was a response to dragons was correct, because that northern polar region is fricken' huge and, what is more, the dragons somehow destroyed the southern polar region, hence the screwy weather'. I don't know if I like the idea, but it was what immediately popped into my head.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is true, the world book could make a lot more clear - but it should not change any of the dates we have been given so far. It could add more though.

On that world book, it looks like there is a spoiler here

http://i.imgur.com/VR2j0Xk.png

If this is an official map, it makes me happy in one way because I always thought that the north south distance is larger then most fan maps show it.

But it makes me sad because (possible massive spoilers, though it is just a theory)

Looking at the map made me think 'oh shit, that poster who said the Long Night was a response to dragons was correct, because that northern polar region is fricken' huge and, what is more, the dragons somehow destroyed the southern polar region, hence the screwy weather'. I don't know if I like the idea, but it was what immediately popped into my head.

If that image is official...that dragon Literally has three heads. Hmmm....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is true, the world book could make a lot more clear - but it should not change any of the dates we have been given so far. It could add more though.

On that world book, it looks like there is a spoiler here

http://i.imgur.com/VR2j0Xk.png

If this is an official map, it makes me happy in one way because I always thought that the north south distance is larger then most fan maps show it.

But it makes me sad because (possible massive spoilers, though it is just a theory)

Looking at the map made me think 'oh shit, that poster who said the Long Night was a response to dragons was correct, because that northern polar region is fricken' huge and, what is more, the dragons somehow destroyed the southern polar region, hence the screwy weather'. I don't know if I like the idea, but it was what immediately popped into my head.

What southern polar region? Dorne is north of the equator still.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...