iDooom Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Let's look at what DIDN'T happen in Jon's arc: Wildling rebellion (you know, from mortal enemies of the Night's Watch)Disease (from the sick wildlings they let through the wall, and those at HH)Attack of the Others (the scary creatures that threaten all living things?)NW running out of food (an unlimited IB loan of course, how convenient) So why didn't GRRM give Jon harder obstacles as LC?Maybe because he failed on the easy ones. Miserably.Maybe if he had harder obstacles, he would have failed more quickly.Maybe the readers wouldn't think that Jon was such a great leader.Maybe the readers wouldn't like him anymore... If you were an author and wanted everyone to like a character, what would you do? Well, why not make them do everything right? Of course, that would be "too obvious" and "unrealistic". Did you really think the readers would fall for another Eddard's beheading or Red Wedding? How else could you do it? How about by giving the character very minor consequences for their actions?Like letting the wildlings through the wall resulting in a shortage of food. Or not. But of course the loan has to be paid back. Sometime in the future. After the winter. In a few years. Like after the Others have wiped out life on Westeros... How about making sure the reader knows that the character's villains are EVIL. As in BAD like Janos Slynt, Cregan Karstark, the Weeper, Ramsey Bolton, and of course the undead ice zombies.But these characters are PEOPLE too. They have redeeming qualities.Of course they do! Like... having an easily pronouncable names! And living in Westeros.And if you possibly think Jon's villains aren't complex, just look at the !@#$ton of hate spewed at him for chopping off Janos Slynt's head. You'd think Jon was a Tywin-esque villain or something... Also, don't forget to make sure the reader knows it's not the character's fault. How that be possible? Well, readers are human. And have human memory.Hmm, why not put the consequences of a character's actions in the chapter after they perform the action, with hundreds of pages in between? Then the readers will basically have forgotten the cause of anything that happens. And even if they do, they won't associate the consequence with its cause. In fact, why not separate actions and consequences by several chapters? Like Jon sends Mance to WF. And waits for news. And waits. And finally the Pink Letter comes.But the Pink Letter is not Jon's fault. Ramsey is just a crazy !@#$ing psycho lunatic!Sure it's not Jon's fault. Because we all know that sending Mance was completely foolproof... Now, which characters are almost universally liked?How about Ned Stark? Or Ned Stark 2.0 (aka Robb)? Or Ned Stark 3.0?What happened to them by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Moustache twirlers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Well, I don't look Jon Snow either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 HEY, lets all bash Jon for no reason at all! Why the hell are the only threads at the top of the site right now bashing either posters or main characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiliana Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Well I'm not entirely sure what this thread is about but I'll try to answerI think Martin didn't pile on the problems and headaches for Jon and made his bout of things relatively easy because he wants the reader to contrast him favourably to Dany who coincidentally does drown in the sorts of problems you outline here. Maybe he wants readers cheering for a King Jon, who knowsAlthough he WAS stabbed to death because of his blindness so I don't know if we are actually supposed to think Jon is all that great or maybe if he expects readers to conclude that it wasn't Jon's fault (because it can very easily be argued that it wasn't, you can't really argue that for say Robb) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Let's look at what DIDN'T happen in OP's post: things I care aboutthings that make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Getting stabbed wasn't a big enough obstacle for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Ambar Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 You are petty. This post is stupid. Be more concerned about that than what didnt happen in jon's arc ( aka what you wanted to happen in Jon's arc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Getting stabbed wasn't a big enough obstacle for you? I'm not one to defend Jon, but this. Also, the wildlings as a whole weren't EVIL villains (though some of them are, to be sure), they were just people trying to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Retitle it as " I Love Daenerys And So Must You" And get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassBlackfyre Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Oh, right. What exactly is the point...meaning... anything... of this thread? i don't get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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