MMA & Boxing 15 - Cain Velasquez spends so much time injured he should play for Arsenal

[ljkeane]

Why exactly is morally ok to hit a man but not a woman? Why don't you actually make a case for it instead of just repeatedly saying it? It's unquestionably not treating women as equal to men because they're a different sex, that's pretty much the definition of sexism.

As to why such a fight hasn't been sanctioned? Because firstly it's very unlikely there are many women around who would be good enough and secondly, shocker, society is in fact full of sexist traditions and people.

I have no problem admitting I'd probably have more trouble hitting a woman than a man but I also have no problem admitting that is a sexist attitude. A bit if self reflection might be beneficial mate.

[Hutch]

What the fuck happened to this thread? Holy shit, people have diffrent ideas than I do! Blasphemy! Seriously, what does it matter?

In other news, apparently Anderson Silva is planning on admitting to using PEDs at his NSAC hearing. If you all are done arguing the finer points of punching women, what do you think this does for his legacy?

[lessthanluke]

Why exactly is morally ok to hit a man but not a woman? Why don't you actually make a case for it instead of just repeatedly saying it? It's unquestionably not treating women as equal to men because they're a different sex, that's pretty much the definition of sexism.

As to why such a fight hasn't been sanctioned? Because firstly it's very unlikely there are many women around who would be good enough and secondly, shocker, society is in fact full of sexist traditions and people.

I have no problem admitting I'd probably have more trouble hitting a woman than a man but I also have no problem admitting that is a sexist attitude. A bit if self reflection might be beneficial mate.

Nail on the head.

[lessthanluke]

What the fuck happened to this thread? Holy shit, people have diffrent ideas than I do! Blasphemy! Seriously, what does it matter?

In other news, apparently Anderson Silva is planning on admitting to using PEDs at his NSAC hearing. If you all are done arguing the finer points of punching women, what do you think this does for his legacy?

Doesn't damage his legacy at all for me personally but I am very pro PEDs.

[Hutch]

Doesn't damage his legacy at all for me personally but I am very pro PEDs.

An interesting stance that one does not often see. Personally I'm against the use of PEDs, but I agree that this won't do much damage to his legacy.

[Ramsay B.]

What the fuck happened to this thread? Holy shit, people have diffrent ideas than I do! Blasphemy! Seriously, what does it matter?

Shit got real.

But seriously, the biggest fight in years was signed a few weeks back and not even a mention here? Of course I'm talking about Kimbo vs Ken Shamrock...when legends collide!

[Gears of the Beast]

But seriously, the biggest fight in years was signed a few weeks back and not even a mention here? Of course I'm talking about Kimbo vs Ken Shamrock...when legends collide!

Haha it's amazing. Ken Shamrock is 51 years old. Just like Tito Ortiz vs Stephen Bonnar it will be terrible and just like Tito vs Bonnar it will do great ratings on Spike. Scott Coker is really carving out a niche for Bellator.

[Ken Stone]

Because there should be an ingrained instinct/morality in a man not to beat a woman? I have this. I guess, to my shock, some others in the thread do not. This is grade school morality here man.

If you are so sure of the fact it is only the mismatch potential that keeps such a bout from happening, why again, has such a fight never been sanctioned. Surely some time, some where, there was or is a woman who was or is "good enough" to fight men around her weight class, and yet no such bouts are forthcoming?

No matter how great RR looks and continues to look, and no matter how often they like to hype her by mentioning fights with male fighters, its never going to happen. RR - T.J. Dillishaw will never be (iirc they are same weight).

Why oh why might that be?

*hint: its not only because nobody thinks that is a fair fight.

I think a major hurdle is finding a man that would fight a woman. It's such a no-win situation. If you win congrats, you beat up a girl. If you lose ... well ... yeah. Either way your reputation is shot.

[GSP]

That's what "dipshit" me is getting at Ken. But from the tenor of this thread, it sounds like there would be no shortage of men who would take the fight, with no thought at all about dealing with the press, fans, and just other human beings, if you did manage, on camera, to beat a woman down.

These are fights. Not tennis. When you hear Cat Zingano say "what is she going to do when I'm trying to turn her face into soup", you think "right on, bring that fight woman"! What would you think if RR's opponent in a parallel dimension where man/woman bouts are sanctioned, Carl Zingano, said the same thing?

I explicitly said if a woman were determinatively my fighting equal, I still wouldn't take the fight, cause it still wouldn't be right. So you're straw man about me believing no woman any time anywhere could equal my combative prowess can go right back up your fucking stench hole from where it came.

Women my size or greater who train to fight are probably rare, but there is probably some out there who could school me. I make no claims to be the fucking GOAT or anything. I'm a fucking novice and I know it. I'm fucking gibbled today from three inside leg kicks to my knee from last nights' MMA sparring session. After chasing that lanky son of a bitch around and getting nothing but air for a round, I'm under no goddamned illusions (nor was I before) that I'm a fucking action hero, so eat a dick.

I was raised it was simply wrong to beat on a woman. I thought every male was. Nobody ever took us aside and explained that, if it was a fair contest, and she wanted it, well ... game on.

Damn I'm glad you guys aren't on any of the sanctioning bodies.

If this is chauvinism, well, I'm keeping it. Sure as hell aint changing my character over a couple shrill voices on a stupid fucking internet board.

Amongst the scale of internet arguments, this is the stupidest I've ever, ever been involved in by far.

So here, I'll be and "old fashioned chauvinist" to you, you can be "a sick fuck who'd try to beat down a woman as long as it was sanctioned" and we can all move on.

My Dillishaw/Rousey statement got me thinking: stylistically, I suspect, that's exactly the style to best beat RR. Is there presently a female bantamweight fighter, in our out of the UFC. that brings to mind the likes of Dillishaw or Dominick Cruise in execution? The closest thought I had, iirc, was that Polish girl who's name I'll never be able to remember who fights Esparza for the belt next. Obviously, she's a weight class down, and I'm not sure if I'm remembering her fight accurately.

Hendricks/Brown: who you got?

Personally, my heart wants Brown but my head says Hendricks. Brown tends to take a bit of beat to get started. That's not a good recipe for a guy who early on has magic powers in his straight left.

[lessthanluke]

The sexist is mad he got called on it. Boo hoo. I'd move on if you actually explained some logical reasons for your position as lijkeane asked instead of just repeating it over and over.

[Ken Stone]

That's what "dipshit" me is getting at Ken. But from the tenor of this thread, it sounds like there would be no shortage of men who would take the fight, with no thought at all about dealing with the press, fans, and just other human beings, if you did manage, on camera, to beat a woman down.

These are fights. Not tennis. When you hear Cat Zingano say "what is she going to do when I'm trying to turn her face into soup", you think "right on, bring that fight woman"! What would you think if RR's opponent in a parallel dimension where man/woman bouts are sanctioned, Carl Zingano, said the same thing?

I explicitly said if a woman were determinatively my fighting equal, I still wouldn't take the fight, cause it still wouldn't be right. So you're straw man about me believing no woman any time anywhere could equal my combative prowess can go right back up your fucking stench hole from where it came.

Women my size or greater who train to fight are probably rare, but there is probably some out there who could school me. I make no claims to be the fucking GOAT or anything. I'm a fucking novice and I know it. I'm fucking gibbled today from three inside leg kicks to my knee from last nights' MMA sparring session. After chasing that lanky son of a bitch around and getting nothing but air for a round, I'm under no goddamned illusions (nor was I before) that I'm a fucking action hero, so eat a dick.

I was raised it was simply wrong to beat on a woman. I thought every male was. Nobody ever took us aside and explained that, if it was a fair contest, and she wanted it, well ... game on.

Damn I'm glad you guys aren't on any of the sanctioning bodies.

If this is chauvinism, well, I'm keeping it. Sure as hell aint changing my character over a couple shrill voices on a stupid fucking internet board.

Amongst the scale of internet arguments, this is the stupidest I've ever, ever been involved in by far.

So here, I'll be and "old fashioned chauvinist" to you, you can be "a sick fuck who'd try to beat down a woman as long as it was sanctioned" and we can all move on.

To me there is a gulf between where society is and where it probably should be. Where society is now you are 100% right. I would look askew at a guy who would take a sanctioned fight with a girl because WTF is he thinking? But that is because our society is sexist and will remain that way into the forseeable future. Doesn't make it right.

Think about it this way. When it comes to sanctioning fights it would be much more irresponsible to sanction a fight between me and Dillashaw then Rousey and Dillashaw. The potential for death and/or grave injury is much greater if I climb in the ring with him then if Rhonda does. Yet there is a greater chance that a fight w/ me and TJ would get sanctioned because we are both male. How does that make any sense? Because sexism, not logic.

ETA: I know this seems strange but the issue goes deeper than just sanctioning fights between men and women. We live in a society where it is accepted that women are more fragile then men and should be treated delicately. Helpless. Weak. Needing strong men to save them. What does that do to the psyche of young girls growing up? How about a society where there is no preconceived notions about your toughness, grit, and strength based on your gender? Wouldn't that be a wonder?

[Crom Dubh]

That's what "dipshit" me is getting at Ken. But from the tenor of this thread, it sounds like there would be no shortage of men who would take the fight, with no thought at all about dealing with the press, fans, and just other human beings, if you did manage, on camera, to beat a woman down.

These are fights. Not tennis. When you hear Cat Zingano say "what is she going to do when I'm trying to turn her face into soup", you think "right on, bring that fight woman"! What would you think if RR's opponent in a parallel dimension where man/woman bouts are sanctioned, Carl Zingano, said the same thing?

I explicitly said if a woman were determinatively my fighting equal, I still wouldn't take the fight, cause it still wouldn't be right. So you're straw man about me believing no woman any time anywhere could equal my combative prowess can go right back up your fucking stench hole from where it came.

Women my size or greater who train to fight are probably rare, but there is probably some out there who could school me. I make no claims to be the fucking GOAT or anything. I'm a fucking novice and I know it. I'm fucking gibbled today from three inside leg kicks to my knee from last nights' MMA sparring session. After chasing that lanky son of a bitch around and getting nothing but air for a round, I'm under no goddamned illusions (nor was I before) that I'm a fucking action hero, so eat a dick.

I was raised it was simply wrong to beat on a woman. I thought every male was. Nobody ever took us aside and explained that, if it was a fair contest, and she wanted it, well ... game on.

Damn I'm glad you guys aren't on any of the sanctioning bodies.

If this is chauvinism, well, I'm keeping it. Sure as hell aint changing my character over a couple shrill voices on a stupid fucking internet board.

Amongst the scale of internet arguments, this is the stupidest I've ever, ever been involved in by far.

So here, I'll be and "old fashioned chauvinist" to you, you can be "a sick fuck who'd try to beat down a woman as long as it was sanctioned" and we can all move on.

My Dillishaw/Rousey statement got me thinking: stylistically, I suspect, that's exactly the style to best beat RR. Is there presently a female bantamweight fighter, in our out of the UFC. that brings to mind the likes of Dillishaw or Dominick Cruise in execution? The closest thought I had, iirc, was that Polish girl who's name I'll never be able to remember who fights Esparza for the belt next. Obviously, she's a weight class down, and I'm not sure if I'm remembering her fight accurately.

Hendricks/Brown: who you got?

Personally, my heart wants Brown but my head says Hendricks. Brown tends to take a bit of beat to get started. That's not a good recipe for a guy who early on has magic powers in his straight left.

"Wah wah wah, my sexism is challenged, and now I must be mean to people on the internet because my feelings are hurt!" What an upstanding example of humanity. People aren't "sick" for thinking that women don't need special protection from the menz in a sport they choose to compete in. You're an idiot, a sexist, apparently a poor fighter (learn to fucking check a legkick, I hear fighters do that or something), and a wailing child who demonizes everyone who disagrees with him about athletics. It'd be fine if you said "yeah, fighting girls ain't for me, but sure let others do what they want," but the moral judgment to attach to this? Grow up, you fucking loser.

[GSP]

Every body who ever got nipped with some leg kicks is a poor fighter now, eh?

Bet I'd eat you alive son.

I am proudly chauvinist on this issue, if chauvinist it is indeed.

I'm not wailing over anything over here. I could not possibly care less what you, or any of these other dill holes thinks about my character on this issue. You don't know shit about me. You're all progressive because you would actually try to beat a woman in a cage if it was allowed. Good for you.

Do you want to move on or should we keep on the obligatory fuck you's going.

If so well, lick the snotty end of my fuck stick you goddamned pussy.

You're turn.

This is fun.

[Gears of the Beast]

Hendricks/Brown: who you got?

Brown is overrated, he's never beaten a top 10 opponent yet is somehow in the top 5. Hendricks will beat him up and then hopefully reclaim the title that he's now been robbed of 2 FUCKING TIMES.

[Crom Dubh]

Every body who ever got nipped with some leg kicks is a poor fighter now, eh?

Bet I'd eat you alive son.

I am proudly chauvinist on this issue, if chauvinist it is indeed.

I'm not wailing over anything over here. I could not possibly care less what you, or any of these other dill holes thinks about my character on this issue. You don't know shit about me. You're all progressive because you would actually try to beat a woman in a cage if it was allowed. Good for you.

Do you want to move on or should we keep on the obligatory fuck you's going.

If so well, lick the snotty end of my fuck stick you goddamned pussy.

You're turn.

This is fun.

Throw a bigger tantrum, you whiny prick. "Oh boo hoo, I'm a big man because I protect women by not treating them as equals! Don't be mean to me, internet, I have such sensitive feelings, and I have to express them by inviting other men to fellate me! My masculinity, it overwhelms!"

Well, okay then. The internet will stop being mean to you, and you can have your feelings back, unharmed. For a dude with such pretensions to manliness, you get bent out of shape quick, don't you? Don't smudge your makeup with them tears, princess.

[Ramsay B.]

Am I the only one wondering if we're inching closer and closer to this forum's first sanctioned MMA fight?

[Gears of the Beast]

Am I the only one wondering if we're inching closer and closer to this forum's first sanctioned MMA fight?

That would be quite the milestone indeed. To sweeten the deal I'll agree to corner the highest bidder :P

[polishgenius]

I don't follow MMA much but having a read, this recent argument is silly and if I'm honest neither side looks great in it. Yeah, GSP's attitude is off the mark, inconsistent and uncouth but I think it's a bit weird to suggest that it's sexist to say that women are less physically capable than men. Women aren't allowed to fight men for the same reason we have weight divisions in combat sports - because in the vast majority of cases it would be pointless and dangerous. It's nothing to do with the relative quality of either person.

Yeah, if somehow you found a man and a woman both trained at MMA who are of similar size and strength then go for it, but that seems unlikely enough to be a pointless hypothetical.

[zelticgar]

I've been reffing youth and high school wrestling for many years. It is very common for boys and girls to wrestle at the youth and high school level. I've seen a small handful of girls who can hang with the boys at the elite high school level but more often than not it turns into a serious mismatch. Overall though non of the boys or girls who wrestle seem to be effected adversely by the undertaking.

Regarding professional MMA I think if there were general similarities in strength and skill level within weight classes it would be fine to match up men and women but as things stand right now the vast majority of these fights would end badly for the women. Just because you have one exceptional female fighter it does not make a whole lot of sense to argue that if you are against men and women fighting you are sexist. Its simply a matter of fair competition. I also think there is a maturity factor involved. Female MMA is at its infancy while the male sport has advanced significantly over the last 15 years. The female talent pool has a lot of catching up to do simply due to the fact that there are less fighters and they only recently received the opportunity to fight at the UFC level. Maybe in the future things will change but for now it does not make a lot of sense and i dont feel sexist for the opinion.

[Gears of the Beast]

I thought it was implicitly decided that we were going to move past this argument after it descended into name calling...