MMA & Boxing 15 - Cain Velasquez spends so much time injured he should play for Arsenal

[Hutch]

I'm going to respectfully respond by mentioning that of the 29 (incl. "honourable" mentions) Most Disputed Decisions of 2013 a mere 3 were cases of a Brazilian "winning" against a non-Brazilian in Brazil. For both Assuncao/TJ and RDA/Dunham two of the "erring" judges were non-Brazilians. For Maldonaldo/Beltran the notorious Sal D'Amato was one of the 2 responsible. In all 5/7 of the erring judges in those fights were non-Brazilians. That kinda means that only 2/87 of the most disputed scores of 2013 came from a Brazilian judge in favour of a Brazilian fighter in Brazil. Even allowing for the fact I'm not doing exact science here, that's a remarkably tiny percentage.

So in addition to the fact most of the judges who're fucking up are non-Brazilians, while 7/33 (21%) 2013 UFC events were in Brazil only 3/29 (10%) of the most disputed MMA decisions (they include other orgs) of the year were Brazilians beating non-Brazilians, which suggests Brazil features significantly fewer controversies per card than Everywhere Else. From that list we could also look at Mr Wonderful's "win" over Machida and add in Richman vs Bezzera and Stout vs Fodor in the US, where non-Brazilians were given highly controversial wins over Brazilians, and see that not only does the same thing happen in the other direction, but all 7 of the judges who scored against the Brazilians in those controversial decisions were non-Brazilians. So from a wider perspective it really does seem to go both ways and if anything the Brazilians are doing a better job than average.

This seems to be a touchy subject for you, but I think you missed my point, man. I did not say that Brazillian judges favor Brazillians. Just that Brazillian judges kind of suck. Not much worse then their counterparts from other parts of the world, but bad enough that it's become apparent they need some training. Hell, so do CSAC, NSAC, etc. though.

[Gears of the Beast]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. Yes there are shitty judges everywhere, but Brazil seems to have the most. Seems to be a least a couple very controversial scorecards at every event there. But again that brings up the old saying of "don't leave it in the hands of the judges".

Yes, I agree that Brazil has generally shittier judges but I do hate the 'don't leave it in the hands of the judges' mentality. There should be absolutely no onus placed on the fighter to alter his decision making based on the possibility of shitty judging and I think when you hear Dana constantly parroting that notion he does have some slightly ulterior motive, it's better for him when there are knock outs/all out brawls where the fighters are just throwing caution to the wind and going for the KO. The only aspect of the conversation about bad judging should be around the procedures for hiring/training judges, how they're dealt with after shitty decisions and how the whole scoring system should be changed itself - not on how the fighters choose to go out and fight.

Many US states are notorious for terrible judging too, it's not some specific sleight against Brazil, it's just well known that Brazil has shitty judging - even Anik and Florian talked about it on the broadcast.

[Hutch]

Yes, I agree that Brazil has generally shittier judges but I do hate the 'don't leave it in the hands of the judges' mentality. There should be absolutely no onus placed on the fighter to alter his decision making based on the possibility of shitty judging and I think when you hear Dana constantly parroting that notion he does have some slightly ulterior motive, it's better for him when there are knock outs/all out brawls where the fighters are just throwing caution to the wind and going for the KO. The only aspect of the conversation about bad judging should be around the procedures for hiring/training judges, how they're dealt with after shitty decisions and how the whole scoring system should be changed itself - not on how the fighters choose to go out and fight.

Many US states are notorious for terrible judging too, it's not some specific sleight against Brazil, it's just well known that Brazil has shitty judging - even Anik and Florian talked about it on the broadcast.

I agree that the idea of dont leave it in the judges hands is flawed, but I don't think that is Dana exclusive, nor just bleed guy shit. If there were better judges, this wouldn't be a problem, but I think that's the point of the statement. Without a TKO, submission, absolutely dominant rounds, etc. judges prove to have as much bias as their general knowledge allows. This creates an inconsistisy in scorecards that are laughable. At least in my opinion.

[Davrum]

This seems to be a touchy subject for you, but I think you missed my point, man. I did not say that Brazillian judges favor Brazillians. Just that Brazillian judges kind of suck. Not much worse then their counterparts from other parts of the world, but bad enough that it's become apparent they need some training. Hell, so do CSAC, NSAC, etc. though.

Haha, I know I've gone probably overly in-depth with the facts in breaking down what were likely just throwaway lines of banter, it's just a sentiment I see/hear (yeah, even from professional commentators) which isn't supported by any kind of reality I'm aware of. The way you guys are talking it's as if you don't realise that a bunch of the judges at Brazilian UFC events are people who fly in from outside Brazil, just like we see Herb Dean and Marc Goddard and co flying in to referee. And yeah, you may have missed it but I did address your point along with what Gears said. Again, the records don't just show that Brazilian judges are no more biased than any other judges, they also show that the majority of the disputed scores at Brazilian events come from the non-Brazilian judges who've flown in.

In other words, Brazilian judges aren't just "not much worse than their counterparts from other parts of the world", if anything the records suggest they're better.

It's like the old "smaller guys have fewer finishes" thing, when in reality since 2010 the bantamweight division has a higher percentage of finishes than the 145, 155 and 170 divisions. Not only that, the 125lb men and 135lb women have more knockouts than the men's 135ers, 145ers and even the 155ers. It's easy to see why people hold certain views, but cognitive bias is a bitch sometimes.

[Gears of the Beast]

Gus vs Rumble is official! UFC on FOX 14 from Stockholm on Jan 24 Wooooooooooooooooooo! Dan Henderson vs Mousasi in the co-main.

[Hutch]

Glad to see a quality card coming together for a FOX event. War Hendo!

[Gears of the Beast]

Yeah and a week before that FOX card is a Fox Sports card with McGregor vs Siver, Eddie Alvarez vs Benson Henderson, Costas Philippou vs Uriah Hall and Jorge Masvidal vs Norman Parke. That's two insanely good Fox cards in the space of 2 weeks.

Also in January there's UFC 182 (Jones vs Cormier) and UFC 183 (Silva vs Diaz). January might be the best month of MMA ever.

[Gears of the Beast]

Yeah I agree, I think Rockhold vs Weidman would be amazing (and not only because they're both super attractive). It feels like such a shame non-TRT Vitor is fighting Weidman because I think he's going to get beaten easily. I would have really liked to see a rematch between Vitor and Rockhold to see how much difference the TRT made. I'm not sure what they're gonna do now, I seriously doubt Jacare is going to agree to fight Rockhold. Maybe Jacare vs Yoel Romero and Lyoto vs Rockhold? MW is looking very interesting.

Well, I got at least one of these right, Jacare is fighting Yoel Romero at UFC 184. I didn't expect them to make Rockhold vs Jacare so I really like this match up - I hope Yoel "SOLDIER OF GOD" Romero does something crazy and wins the fight is spectacular fashion.

[Davrum]

Yeah, Romero/Jacare is a great idea Gears, I'm glad they listened to you. Jacare will go in favourite but I'm not as convinced by his striking as many seem to be so Romero is as live a dog as it gets. At this point I'm evilly hoping Vitor gets injured and Luke gets the shot.

Meanwhile, speaking of guys who got shots due to injuries, the Ariel Helwani chat with Mark Hunt is tough to watch if you're anything but a Fabricio Werdum fan. Hunto's been my favourite fighter for a long time now and as much as he's known as a trickster when it comes to the way he behaves in the media he really does seem distracted by something heavy in his family life. As if he doesn't have enough on his plate with the short notice and unfriendly atmospheric conditions of Mexico City he seems to be fighting demons on the home front.

[GSP]

Hope Hunt is just yanking us, and he brings it.

Really excited for the fights announced lately. Johnson/Gus has me Salivating.

Tomorrow night's card is interesting to be sure. Personally, I believe Lamas/Bermudez is going to be off the wall intense FOTN type of stuff. Both those guys bring a sick pace, so it'll be an interesting collision.

[Gears of the Beast]

Hunt isn't yanking us but I don't think it really effects the outcome of the fight, his chances remain slim with his hope being that he can somehow catch Werdum. I'm curious to see what Werdum's plan is because I think that Travis Browne fight gave him a ton of confidence in his striking. It's sad to say this but I think the most likely scenario is Werdum thoroughly out-striking Hunt with his superior movement, reach and versatility and whether or not he gets the finish will depend on how Hunt's cardio holds up when he gets dragged into the later rounds. I think Bermudez is underrated while Lamas is overrated, I think Bermudez gets a decisive win and hopefully goes on to fight McGregor.

[Davrum]

I'm with you on Werdum's movement. He's very good at being very awkward. Even the Overeem fight, which Werdum gets a ton of shit for, he outstruck Overeem in R1 but then wrecked his knee 30sec into R2 and couldn't keep up the necessary footwork.

[Gears of the Beast]

Anyone see that ear explode? That was fucking disgusting, I really like Jessica Eye though - so good win for her...I guess

[GSP]

I was rooting for Leslie Smith on that one. Too bad. Nobody likes those kind of wins. Yeah, it can't go on, and the damaged fighter looses, but, you didn't "beat" her. That sucks.

I also believe Bermudez in underrated, and I think he'll prove it again against Lamas. He has truly become fascinating to watch imho. But if Lama comes in on point, it could be a crazy, frantic, back and forth affair. I love those fights.

[Davrum]

Werdum beats almost anyone else in the division and I'm superduper happy for him - he's a great character and a great fighter, but since it's Mark he beat I can only be slightly happy for him.

[Ramsay B.]

Werdum beats almost anyone else in the division and I'm superduper happy for him - he's a great character and a great fighter, but since it's Mark he beat I can only be slightly happy for him.

Wow! Werdum winning by KO is pretty surprising. Good win.

[Gears of the Beast]

I think JDS beats Werdum. It's a shame that JDS has kind of been sidelined because of how good Cain is. I think JDS is way ahead of the rest of the division and Cain is way ahead of him. Kind of a shitty situation because the UFC is gonna be hesitant in giving JDS fights which would lead to another fight with Cain but in reality that's where he deserves to be.

[Davrum]

JDS/Werdum 2 would be a very intriguing contest. For one thing apart from Hunto they're the two most lovable fighters in MMA. For another, they've both knocked out Hunto - a feat not to be sneezed at. For another another they're both much-changed from the first time they met, when Werdum admits he didn't take the new kid on the block seriously at all. In the 6 years since their meeting Werdum's muay thai under Cordeiro has become maybe the best in the division (Hunto is awesome, but barely throws kicks and throws no knees or elbows) while it's difficult to imagine that JDS's 48 minutes in the cage with Cain haven't taken something from him permanently.

[Gears of the Beast]

That was a pretty sweet card, Edgar dominant as fuck to the point where the fight wasn't even fun. That Olinsky Russian guy's KO over Rosholt was awesome and the women's strawweight fight also awesome - between that and this season of TUF I'm pretty excited for this new division.

[Davrum]

I've been liking TUF 20 too - not quite as good as TUF Latin America (because you literally can't beat headkick KOs), but still with some really fun fights. I'm hoping Jojo can win it all but she has to fight Rose and Rose is scary. Randa's the other one who's really impressed me.