US Politics: Common Ground Between Democrats and Republicans

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

FTFY

This presumes you have provided a single source to show voter fraud exists and have actually constructed an argument. Neither of those things have happened.

The argument has already been constructed, I'm just saying what side I'm on. And, just for future reference, what's the minimum number of sources to prove a point? You wanna edit any of that away like your other post?

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Need some help getting up on that cross, there?

The guy called me biased, like none of you are.

[aceluby]

/looks at this thread

I would hope at least you were learning from this experience.

But you have to admit that it's somewhat humorous seeing someone literally spout of talking points and pretend it's a rational argument.

If anything this is a good example of the failure of our school systems. I only hope he was homeschooled, because if he paid for it he should be demanding a refund.

[awesome possum]

Reading this thread today has been a lesson in futility. I can't figure out if you're all bored or just sadists.

[Inigima]

How has any point been improperly sourced or constructed. And yes, I'm the biased one around here. Just me.... And I don't believe I'm the one trying to argue. Just stating my personal belief, then being told I'm stupid or wrong for believing that. Then again, that's what liberals do

I am genuinely curious about how you reconcile these two sentences.

[aceluby]

The guy called me biased, like none of you are.

Bias is one thing. The problem with your argument (if you can call it that) is that you have done absolutely nothing to support your position that mass fraud exists, or that the voter ID laws would prevent the non-existent fraud.

But hey, you keep pretending that you're only doing what those 'evil liberals' are doing and just keep your head firmly up Richard Murdoch's ass. I hear it's wonderful this time of year.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Biased, that was a good one! When pointing out the facts about how two of America greatest cities, Chicago ave Detroit, have been royally fucked by liberals who have had power and ran those cities for DECADES, I get flat out denial and stupid questions about what policies. That's bias... no one their right mind would can refute that. But when you guys have no rebuttal, you play dumb. Or, in your case, that links or sources were not relevant or good enough. But I'm bias! Well, at least I can get a good laugh from you guys

[Suttree]

what's the minimum number of sources to prove a point?

Oh did I miss you providing sources showing voter fraud exists? You'll have to tell me in which post because earlier you refused to do so. What you have done is provide a personal opinion, sourcing evidence and constructing an argument to support said opinion is a very different thing. It's baffling you don't seem to understand that.

When pointing out the facts

That's what you think you were doing? You seem to love those anecdotal fallacies and grade school level opinion pieces(forgive us if we don't find opinions to be at all well researched when it talks about demographic shifts with zero mention of redlining) eh?

stupid questions about what policies.

Yes how stupid. Asking you which liberal policies you were referring to and specifically how they impacted the cities in question. See if you could actually begin to form an answer, that would be "constructing" an argument.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

But you have to admit that it's somewhat humorous seeing someone literally spout of talking points and pretend it's a rational argument.

If anything this is a good example of the failure of our school systems. I only hope he was homeschooled, because if he paid for it he should be demanding a refund.

Because poor people can afford ideas is not a taking point.... We don't agree, but I like you ace. I like you

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

I am genuinely curious about how you reconcile these two sentences.

The first would be when I joined the conversation. The latter would be after the hate comes down.

[DanteGabriel]

Biased, that was a good one! When pointing out the facts about how two of America greatest cities, Chicago ave Detroit, have been royally fucked by liberals who have had power and ran those cities for DECADES, I get flat out denial and stupid questions about what policies. That's bias... no one their right mind would can refute that. But when you guys have no rebuttal, you play dumb. Or, in your case, that links or sources were not relevant or good enough. But I'm bias! Well, at least I can get a good laugh from you guys

What liberal policies "royally fucked" Chicago and Detroit? That is a pretty big statement, so this is the part of rational debate where you provide specific policies and evidence. Just a tip, princethatdunningkrugerpromised.

[Inigima]

The thing about voter ID is that it represents different things to politicians than it does to the base.

To the pols it's a cynical ploy at voter disenfranchisement. To the base it represents an honest, if ill-informed fear. You might say that it's really about racism or something similar -- that it's less "people might vote who shouldn't" and more "black people might vote who shouldn't" -- and you might well be right, but put that aside for a moment, because it doesn't matter.

If you don't think people can sincerely hold fears that don't make any sense, you aren't paying attention. Look at the panic over Ebola. I've had a ton of morons comment on how worried they are about Ebola. It doesn't matter that it makes no sense to worry about it right now. People tend to overestimate risks they don't understand. It's a survival trait.

But PWWP et al: you need to stop and think through it. Make the lizard brain -- we all have one, this isn't a dig at you -- obey. Voter ID is literally a solution proven not to work to a problem proven not to exist.

[DanteGabriel]

We're on page 24. New topic:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/119665-us-politics-midterm-elections-are-nigh-do-you-know-where-your-voting-rights-are/

[Inigima]

Biased, that was a good one! When pointing out the facts about how two of America greatest cities, Chicago ave Detroit, have been royally fucked by liberals who have had power and ran those cities for DECADES, I get flat out denial and stupid questions about what policies. That's bias... no one their right mind would can refute that. But when you guys have no rebuttal, you play dumb. Or, in your case, that links or sources were not relevant or good enough. But I'm bias! Well, at least I can get a good laugh from you guys

I think I see the point you think you're making, but you aren't.

If I read you right, your argument goes like this.

1. Liberals have controlled Detroit and Chicago for a long time.

2. Those cities are fucked.

3. Therefore, liberal policies must be why those cities are fucked.

That doesn't follow because it doesn't have to be a policy issue. Let me suggest a simpler explanation: corruption. Being a one-party town breeds it. I'm from Baltimore, and the city is laughably corrupt. Our last mayor literally stole Target gift cards donated for the poor.

When you have this kind of fox-guarding-the-henhouse situation, big surprise the fox takes advantage. As a liberal I hate that the machine here is insurmountable, for exactly this reason.

But it isn't because of liberal policy positions. It isn't the result of gay rights, it isn't about welfare, it isn't because of tax policy. It's because people put their hands in the cookie jar, because there's no one to watch them.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

Oh did I miss you providing sources showing voter fraud exists? You'll have to tell me in which post because earlier you refused to do so. What you have done is provide a personal opinion, sourcing evidence and constructing an argument to support said opinion is a very different thing. It's baffling you don't seem to understand that.

That's what you think you were doing? You seem to love those anecdotal fallacies and grade school level opinion pieces(forgive us if we don't find opinions to be at all well researched when it talks about demographic shifts with zero mention of redlining) eh?

Yes how stupid. Asking you which liberal policies you were referring to and specifically how they impacted the cities in question. See if you could actually begin to form an answer, that would be "constructing" an argument.

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/04/study-finds-765-cases-of-nc-voter-fraud-in-2012-election.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Carolina-voter-fraud-zombies/2014/04/03/id/563542/

How many more do you need to see? Dead people casting ballots. Garfield casting ballots. But it doesn't exist....

[alguien]

Wait... how is Chicago fucked up? As a former 9-year resident, it's one of the nicest cities in the US. Don't get me wrong, it's not without it's problems, but I don't know if any city in the world that can make that claim...

Also, most cities in the US are liberally governed, yet I don't see evidence for their catastrophic failures...

ETA: ah shit, sorry. New thread started. I will post there instead.

[theprincethatwasntpromised]

I think I see the point you think you're making, but you aren't.

If I read you right, your argument goes like this.

1. Liberals have controlled Detroit and Chicago for a long time.

2. Those cities are fucked.

3. Therefore, liberal policies must be why those cities are fucked.

That doesn't follow because it doesn't have to be a policy issue. Let me suggest a simpler explanation: corruption. Being a one-party town breeds it. I'm from Baltimore, and the city is laughably corrupt. Our last mayor literally stole Target gift cards donated for the poor.

When you have this kind of fox-guarding-the-henhouse situation, big surprise the fox takes advantage. As a liberal I hate that the machine here is insurmountable, for exactly this reason.

But it isn't because of liberal policy positions. It isn't the result of gay rights, it isn't about welfare, it isn't because of tax policy. It's because people put their hands in the cookie jar, because there's no one to watch them.

I posted this before. Entitlements, unfunded pensions that the the city can't afford, huge debt due to spend sprees on the tax payer dime. Absolutely, gay rights has nothing to do with it. Financial policy. But that shouldn't have to be explained, it is known. But since they can't defend it, they act like those are thriving cities! Corruption was in both and is in Chicago's case very much a factor. But so is the party in powers policy.

[alguien]

Responded in new thread.

[Suttree]

other thread