Shakespeare's Curse

[Kyoshi]

I often see people apologising for their limited English skills, either in their signatures or every time they make a post. I guess I just wonder if anyone here cares about the English skills of posters. I personally don't care; just so long as I can be able to follow what you're trying to say. I'm also wondering if it's necessary for people to keep "apologising." I certainly understand that these forums are made up of people from around the world; I don't expect everyone to be entirely comfortable with the language.

Finally, I feel that perhaps some posters hold back because they feel that people will "judge" them for presenting their thoughts and opinions in "broken" [for lack of a better word. I honestly mean no offence] English. We could be losing out on insightful analyses and ideas because of this.

Any thoughts?

[Kyoshi]

This was partly inspired by an encounter I had today. I was having a conversation with a man from my home province. The problem is that I don't speak his language so we agreed on English...I don't know, because that's the go-to language. Anyway, I could tell that he was shy and insecure, something that had not been the case in the brief time that he used his native tongue. He kept hitting himself on the head lightly, smiling meekly, and trying to explain everything with very "shy" and unsure hand gestures. The thing is that he was incredibly smart and had a lot of knowledge: it's tax season in South Africa and he was very knowledgeable on this stuff, he even had the number of every gut to call in case of any inquiry. Then he told me of the Rain Queen of the Balobedu People...all very fascinating. I actually enjoyed my interaction with him. However, I couldn't help but wonder if our experience was somehow lessened by his lack of confidence in his English skills, something I felt should not have been the case.

On a more controversial note: I also felt that some of his shyness stemmed from his accent. In my experience, people tend to take speakers people more seriously when a certain accent is assumed by the speaker. I guess it's one of the reasons we have a British cast for GoT. My question is this: do we put too much value in accents?

Anyway, that's my ramble for the day.

[Theda Baratheon]

I don't really care at all and I think it's usually quite obvious when English is the second language or third language of someone and to ridicule them for it not being 'perfect' seems very mean-spirited to me so I make a point not to insult people for their spelling or grammar because it just doesn't matter, I might tell someone something is spelled wrong but it will never be with an air of haughtiness.

[Ormond]

This is of course a matter of degree along a continuum. A few minor mistakes that don't make it hard to understand what someone is trying to communicate are fine. But a post which uses English so poorly that it is hard to find just what the "insightful analysis" is among many misspellings and grammar errors is another matter. This is not always a matter of English not being one's first language, because there are people who know no other language besides English who still cannot express themselves well in writing.

I think it is perfectly fine for someone to ask for clarification when they find a post hard to understand, or to point out errors which easily lead to misunderstanding. Of course this should be done politely -- but one must also remember that when one is dealing with purely written communication, it is often very hard to judge whether or not someone does or does not have an "air of haughtiness" in their attempt to help out someone else's language skills.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

imo it's gr8 when ppl use numbers 4 words

[Kyoshi]

imo it's gr8 when ppl use #s 4 words

Fixed that for you.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Fixed that for you.

thx m8

[maarsen]

I don't really care at all and I think it's usually quite obvious when English is the second language or third language of someone and to ridicule them for it not being 'perfect' seems very mean-spirited to me so I make a point not to insult people for their spelling or grammar because it just doesn't matter, I might tell someone something is spelled wrong but it will never be with an air of haughtiness.

I agree with Theda here. As someone who has had a hard time talking due to a bad stutter, I am willing to make a lot of allowances for ungrammatical phrases or misspelled words. Not that Theda ever does that.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

As a languages student, anyone being mean about the spelling and grammar of a poster whose mother tongue is not English can go fuck themselves.

However it's bloody annoying when people use text spelling ("u" instead of "you" etc). Fortunately that's a rare sight on this forum.

[TrueMetis]

No one who doesn't also speak more than one language has any business being condescending to someone who does.

[Nymeria10k]

I speak to people who use 'text speak' their first language not being english, most native speakers I know don't use text speak

To be honest I don't give a damn how people write on the internet as long as it's coherent and understandable. I'm really lenient with it

OP has a point, I've found in the past that talking to non-native english speakers (me being a native english speaker) has made them slightly intimidated of me, I talked to a guy on a skype call once and we didn't talk much, his english wasn't brilliant and he felt slightly shy/intimidated. Then he spoke to someone who like him wasn't a native english speaker and he found it much easier to communicate with her because she wasn't native like him.

When speaking to non-natives, my dad takes on an accent that is 'easier' for them to understand, like sort of adapting his accent to theirs. It works well. I mean when I'm at work, I get a lot of european customers (primarily eastern european) and when I talk in my normal english accent they don't always understand me even though they speak english too. Sometimes it's the phrases we use that a non-native may not understand

A customer came through my checkout last weekend, he was european but no idea which country. So, as is my job, I asked if he wanted cashback (I work at a small supermarket) and he goes uh, what's cashback? It's something that I get asked by europeans a lot, not all of them understand it. I think the difference in accents makes some people uncomfortable around native speakers and I feel that a lot

Although numbers instead of words annoys me. But um, I was guilty of that until I was 15. The whole text speak thing. But I'm willing to make allowances until a certain level, and for non-native speakers I'm very lenient because I understand

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

No one who doesn't also speak more than one language has any business being condescending to someone who does.

Pfft. I subscribe to the maxim - "do one thing and do it good!"

[armidil0]

I'm so glad English is my first language. There are hardly rules to the language. Also, having one 'the' is awesome.

I applaud people who speak two or more languages. If they get a little bit of English wrong, oh well. Nobody speaks English perfectly.

[TrueMetis]

Pfft. I subscribe to the maxim - "do one thing and do it good!"

.. Pretty sure that sure be "do it well"

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

.. Pretty sure that sure be "do it well"

That's unpossible.

[Buckwheat]

As a non-native English speaker and a language student myself, I do not judge people for making mistakes when using a foreign language. They are usually not that bad as to make it impossible to understand. However, I am annoyed when somebody I know is a native speaker does not make the effort to write correctly. Most of the confusing mistakes I have seen around here were made by native speakers, as far as I know (then/than, there/their, your/you're, punctuation).

As a languages student,

:cheers: Which languages?

I speak to people who use 'text speak' their first language not being english, most native speakers I know don't use text speak

...

Although numbers instead of words annoys me. But um, I was guilty of that until I was 15. The whole text speak thing. But I'm willing to make allowances until a certain level, and for non-native speakers I'm very lenient because I understand

The few times I have seen half-assed posts in "text speak" on this forum, I think it was by native speakers. :wacko:

And people whose first language is not English are less likely to use numbers instead of words in my opinion. They learned English as a foreign language, and as such, they learned the formal version of it, not the one used in texting. English and American people are who text in English and develop the English version of text speak.

And ... what is "cashback"? :lol: That word is definitely not something I learned.

Also, having one 'the' is awesome.

My language has none. And I love it. ;) I always found "the" and stuff annoying. I never knew where to put it and where not. I still do not.

[Filippa Eilhart]

And ... what is "cashback"? :lol: That word is definitely not something I learned.

if you pay by card in a supermarket you can ask to "withdraw" some cash, like you would form a cash machine. It's quite cool, I don't know why other countries (that I've shopped in) don't do it.

ppl who don't take the time to actually spell out the words annoy me. (ha, see what I did there?). On the other hand, I never put any accents in when I write in French cause I don't have them on my keyboard and I can't be bothered searching for them. So that makes me a bit of a hypocrite.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

:cheers: Which languages?

French, German and I've recently started Dutch.

[Solmyr]

As a non-native speaker, I deem that one must strive for as perfect as possible a knowledge of the language he seeks to communicate in, in order to achieve efficient dialogue. This is especially true for written communication (e.g. on the Internet), for there one lacks the ability to convey meaning through facial expressions, gestures, pitch, etc.

Being able to articulate leads to brevity, which in turn means you are less likely to bore your audience before you get to the point.

And this is why I only stick to English and my mother tongue - I have concluded I do not have the capacity to maintain more than two languages on the level I desire.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

And ... what is "cashback"? :lol: That word is definitely not something I learned.

That's because it's not really one word, though it's often treated that way. The question is "Do you want cash back?" The meaning is as Filippa described: when you pay by debit card, you can add an additional amount to the charge, and the store will give you the balance over your purchases back as cash. So if I buy 15 EUR of products, I can ask for 40 "back", and I'm actually debited 55 EUR. The store keeps the 15 for the goods but gives me 40 EUR in cash.