[Spoiler's All] Marwyn The Mage Of The Citadel VS. Moqorro The Dark Flame Of The Red Church: The Battle For Danaerys

[Blazfemur]

So? Who does she side with? Who has her best interests at heart?

Name Marwyn The Mage

Hails From: The Citadel

Notable Equipment: Valyrian Steel Staff, Valyrian Steel Mask, Valyrian Steel Ring

Secret Weapon: Glass Candle

Aboard: Cinnimon Wind

Magic Affiliation: Presumably, Valyrian (Rh'llor/Dragons/Fire/Blood)

Notable Past Exploits: Tutored Mirri Maaz Duur, in the secrets of blood magic, which killed paralyzed Khal Drogo/sacrificed Rhaego, yet inevitably DID hatch Danaerys' dragons through Valyrian blood magic in Rhaego (Valyrian blood magics are also what i suspect are used to weave into valyrian steel weaponry)

OR

Name Moqorro The Dark Flame

Hails From: The Red Church

Notable Equipment: Victarion Greyjoy

Secret Weapon: The Dragon Horn

Aboard: Originally, "The Stinky Steward" (Perfumed Seneschal??); Now, The Iron Fleet

Magic Affiliation: Also, Valyrian (Rh'llor/Dragons/Fire/Blood)

Notable Past Exploits: Wielded a staff with a dragon's head (is he a head of the dragon?), could see prophecies in the flames, was part OF a prophecy by Quaithe, also demonstrated healing magic and blood sacrifice. Moqorro, with Victarian, have united the Drowned God, & Rh'llor, for one purpose. With dragons & the Iron Fleet, they'd be unstoppable

Where would Quaithe fall under all this? I'd assume, Marwyn (Glass Candle references). Drogo had to get sick, so Rhaego had to die, to hatch Danaerys' dragons (the blood sacrifice had to take place, for the realm). Unless, Quaithe is a Glass Candle holder for Benerro, head of the Red Church (*gasp*)

So, who does Danaerys side with? Who should she side with, and who will she side with. Who will win her attention? Fork in the road here, I think this will determine if Danaerys will end up being the story's main savior, or end villain, depending on which path she chooses.

Prediction: Victarion/Moqorro slay Marwyn by Danaerys' command when Moqorro names her Azor Ahai, and informs her that it was Marwyn's magic that taught Mirri Maaz Duur that killed her child & husband, and she buys into the Azor Ahai savior/messiah role. Danaerys chooses Moqorro, to Barristan's dismay. Victarian slays Barristan, and takes Danaerys as his wife in exchange for use of his Iron Fleet to transport Danaerys, her Unsullied, her Dragons, & now RH'LLOR to Westeros to wreak infernal Fire, & Blood.

[Blazfemur]

It'd be interesting to know, which side Illyrio & Varys, would be on.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Why would Marwyn and Moqorro fight each other? They both dig magic and dragons, unless you think Marwyn played Sam for a fool and is actually a threat for Dany

As for Varys and Illyrio, if the Red Priests support Dany, then the Faith will support Aegon

[Blazfemur]

Why would Marwyn and Moqorro fight each other? They both dig magic and dragons, unless you think Marwyn played Sam for a fool and is actually a threat for Dany

As for Varys and Illyrio, if the Red Priests support Dany, then the Faith will support Aegon

genuine question: is the citadel on good terms with the red church?

Marwyn the Mage, may use Valyrian Blood Magic, but that's not necessarily in the light of Rh'llor.

You know?

I feel Marwyn may be genuine, whereas moqorro, isnt. who knows, i just didnt see Moqorro alligning with Marwyn and the citadel.

[Blazfemur]

Also, and this may be of some use, Mirri's actual spell, when she's actually casting it, since she "learned it from Marwyn," is there any mention of Rh'llor (i know it's a foreign language if i recall correctly)

[Good Guy Garlan]

I think the Citadel is not in good terms with anyone who practices magic and/or likes dragons (after all, they killed the dragons the last time, and the magic died with them), and that includes the Red Priests, who are actually supporting Dany

But Marwyn doesn't represent the Citadel's agenda, quite the opposite, actually

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Neither.

(I know this will be unpopular, but why can't Dany be her own person instead of a pawn? She's not Young Griff.)

[Civility Reigns]

Mages don't fight each other directly. That sort of thing gets real messy, real quick. There are rules to be followed. Worst we'll see is a regulated duel, contest or a proxy battle.

Victarion and some dope can fight it out and when it's over one of the wizards can stand over the smoking remains of the loser and say, "Very well, I concede." Clean, decisive, and no one important gets hurt.

[Blazfemur]

Neither.

(I know this will be unpopular, but why can't Dany be her own person instead of a pawn? She's not Young Griff.)

then how does she leave for westeros? i would assume, via the iron fleet somehow, it's a perfect size for her masses.

I think the Citadel is not in good terms with anyone who practices magic and/or likes dragons (after all, they killed the dragons the last time, and the magic died with them), and that includes the Red Priests, who are actually supporting Dany

But Marwyn doesn't represent the Citadel's agenda, quite the opposite, actually

would you suggest he'd allign with the church then? as in, Danaerys, Victarian, Marwyn, Moqorro, Rh'llor, The Unsullied, & The Iron Fleet?

Mages don't fight each other directly. That sort of thing gets real messy, real quick. There are rules to be followed. Worst we'll see is a regulated duel, contest or a proxy battle.

Victarion and some dope can fight it out and when it's over one of the wizards can stand over the smoking remains of the loser and say, "Very well, I concede." Clean, decisive, and no one important gets hurt.

Hmm. i can see victarian fighting for moqorro, but who would Marwyn use as a defender? Im not really up to par with the forces of the citadel, or more importantly, the Cinnimon Wind.

[Civility Reigns]

Marwyn has only just been introduced, and he hasn't made his way to Daenerys yet. There's still time to find a champion. Or create one, whatever is to his taste.

[Blazfemur]

Marwyn has only just been introduced, and he hasn't made his way to Daenerys yet. There's still time to find a champion. Or create one, whatever is to his taste.

His character was introduced, but he existed way before Game Of Thrones. He may have been the sorceror that snipped Varys. But he was definitely the sorceror that taught Mirri how to paralyze Khal Drogo, and sacrifice with valyrian blood. I say he may have with Varys, because Varys was supposedly paralyzed in a similar way while he was snipped, and then his junk was thrown into the fire for magic. Of course, this is theoretical.

However, Marwyn did teach Mirri Maaz Duur about blood magic. There were shadows present in the tent, as well, during the ritual. This may have been blood shadowbinding magic (similar to melisandre's).

Point is, if Marwyn was intending on joining Danaerys, if there's a point for she discover's it was HIS magic that sacrificed Rhaego and lost Drogo, there may be some words or actions exchanged. And IF Moqorro is the one to tell her (perhaps he sees it in his flames), it could add fuel to the fire (HA!)

[Blazfemur]

Remember too, on the show, Varys shows Tyrion the crate with the mage/wizard/sorceror locked inside, and thats when he tells tyrion about his backstory. Could this character come back later on?

[Malik Ambar]

Neither.

(I know this will be unpopular, but why can't Dany be her own person instead of a pawn? She's not Young Griff.)

Having experienced advisors =/= being pawn . That's the one thing she needs the most.

[Good Guy Garlan]

would you suggest he'd allign with the church then? as in, Danaerys, Victarian, Marwyn, Moqorro, Rh'llor, The Unsullied, & The Iron Fleet?

I'm inclined to agree based on what little we know about Marwyn, but I just remembered Quaithe warned Dany about "the dark flame" (most likely Moqorro), which fits to my theory that he might try to use the dragonhorn to bind the dragons to himself, so who knows

[King of the West]

Two things off topic I got to make a thread about

1) dany must die it's must happen

2) I truly believe Marwyn cut Varys I know some believe they are one in the same but I don't

Those two items tell me them plugging up has a bad ending

[Fire Eater]

would you suggest he'd allign with the church then? as in, Danaerys, Victarian, Marwyn, Moqorro, Rh'llor, The Unsullied, & The Iron Fleet?

Marwyn has been said to make sacrifices to queer gods so he is not a die hard worshiper of the Seven. I think he is kind of the Septon Barth of the Citadel. Barth was a septon who was reputedly interested in magic, and called more a sorcerer than a septon. He served the Targaryens even though his organization, the Faith, fought them.

Why would Dany harm him when he came to help her and revealed the Citadel's plot with a heads up for their likely attempt to kill her dragons?

Dany does need a Grand Maester come to think of it, and who better than an archmaester of the Citadel who chose to side with her?

Also, I doubt Victarion's plan will go through, and Dany will marry him, especially if he kills Hizdahr and Barristan. I think the hints point more strongly to Dany killing him with Drogon.

[PrinceHenryris]

From his description, it seems like Marwyn's been in a scrap or three.

[The Drowned Prophet]

Name Moqorro The Dark Flame

Notable Equipment: Victarion Greyjoy

I laughed so hard at this.

Moqorro's highly accurate ability to read the flames is surely his secret weapon.

From the TWOW sample, we know that Vic doesn't trust Moqorro with the dragon horn anyway. (Not to say Moq won't pull a fast one but Vic is at least aware of the possibility).

ETA: Interesting parallel between Moq and Marwyn btw!

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Neither faction has her best interests at heart. Hell, no one coming to her has her best interests at heart. They all want something from her. That doesn't make her a pawn, necessarily, because it's still her choice how to react to these people. But even someone like Barristan came to her with an agenda, even if it was as simple as "giving the Lannisters the finger."

Having said that, I think Dany would be more inclined to start following the red god's religion. For one thing, as others have said, Marwyn is the one who taught Mirri and Dany is the one who burned Mirri, Marwyn's protege. So I think there's probably going to be bad blood there going both ways.

Dany styles herself as this sort of maternal messianic being as it is ("breaker of chains," yada yada). I think it's very reasonable to guess that a fire-based religion with a large slave following that sees her as its Jesus figure would sufficiently stroke her ego such that she could be persuaded to consider it. I'm actually more curious about how much control Benerro/Moqorro and their group want to exercise over her. If she strays from the playbook in a big way (maybe they don't even want her to go to Westeros at all), then what?

[SeanF]

Neither faction has her best interests at heart. Hell, no one coming to her has her best interests at heart. They all want something from her. That doesn't make her a pawn, necessarily, because it's still her choice how to react to these people. But even someone like Barristan came to her with an agenda, even if it was as simple as "giving the Lannisters the finger."

Having said that, I think Dany would be more inclined to start following the red god's religion. For one thing, as others have said, Marwyn is the one who taught Mirri and Dany is the one who burned Mirri, Marwyn's protege. So I think there's probably going to be bad blood there going both ways.

Dany styles herself as this sort of maternal messianic being as it is ("breaker of chains," yada yada). I think it's very reasonable to guess that a fire-based religion with a large slave following that sees her as its Jesus figure would sufficiently stroke her ego such that she could be persuaded to consider it. I'm actually more curious about how much control Benerro/Moqorro and their group want to exercise over her. If she strays from the playbook in a big way (maybe they don't even want her to go to Westeros at all), then what?

The Red Priests see human sacrifice by live burning as a means of gaining R'hllor's favour. Dany has personal experience of just how effective such live burning can be. So, I could see her being convinced by their arguments that their god is real, and that she is his Chosen One. There are various issues.

1. Should an entity that requires live burning be worshipped at all? Might not such an entity in fact be malign?

2. What is Azhor Ahai reborn supposed to do? Purge the world of unbelievers? Fight the Others? Free slaves?

3. If Dany is at the head of a religious crusade, can she do anything to control it, or would she be like Paul Atreides; almost a god, but powerless to prevent massacres in her name?