aryagonnakill#2 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Recently I've started to see more people saying they don't believe R+L=J or that they don't want it to be true. To the latter, ok, everyone has an opinion, but to the former, can you provide a single alternative that cannot be easily debunked with the simple fact that a pregnancy takes around 9 months? I don't go in the R+L=J thread because idk what could possibly be talked about, but I do wonder what people are thinking some times. If we accept that Jon has Stark blood then according to biology Ashara is not his mother, she was not around Ned 9 months prior to the sack, and Brandon had no boys. If Wyla is his mom then that actually explains away the problems involved in Dorne and why no 1 questions when Ned comes back from finding his sister with a new baby, however if Wyla survived childbirth why would Ned take Jon away from her? If she died in birth how the hell did Ned get Jon/ know it was his? Then there is Edric Dayne saying he and Jon shared a wet nurse. If Jon was never in Dorne why would the Daynes ever talk about him, let alone tell Edric how he shared a wet nurse with Jon? These are the 2 options we were presented with by GRRM, I know people have come up with others but al of the 1's I've read could be easily discounted based on a simple timeline, so this thread isn't to debate R+L=J, I'm simply asking, can anyone out there provide a viable alternative that is not easily dismissed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Jon is older than Robb by six months , okay doable .Jon 's mother is Wylla , As a Stark he believes his son belongs at Winterfell, the only problem I see about this is she had to stay at her hovel until wars end or somebody would have told Catelyn who's Jon's mother was. But If Wylla was Jon mother why did he need a wet nurse in the GOT Catelyn chapter page 55 hard cover.Jon's mother is Lyanna timing is right , but either Rhaegar,Arthur Dayne ,Aerys or Oswell Whent can be the father . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Jon is older than Robb by six months , okay doable . Not do-able. Catelyn believes Robb is older (she thinks Ned concieved Jon while away at the war after marrying her). Jon and Robb are together as small babies, probably under 6 months old. There are massive developmental and cognitive milestones in babies during the first year. It is not conceivable that Jon is more than a month or so older then Robb because the two babies were together at a very young age and it would have been extremely obvious is Jon were older than Robb by more than a month or two to anyone comparing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 GRRM said Jon was born within 2 weeks of the sack, so we have a pretty definitive timetable on that. I guess I have been beaten tho, Arthr Dayne, and Oswell Whent could theoretically be the father, I cannot disprove that based on the timeline. I think from a story telling perspective and the fact that it was Rhaegar who "kidknapped" her, it wouldn't make much sense, but you got me on the timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Watch the four YouTube videos from Preston Jacobs about The Tower of Joy. You make your own decision on whether it's valid or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Watch the four YouTube videos from Preston Jacobs about The Tower of Joy. You make your own decision on whether it's valid or not. Hint. It's not. Based on misquotes and assumptions that fly in the face of text, logic, and SSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 I pretty much assume that if a person isn't willing to post it in this forum they are basically admitting it would get torn to shreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I pretty much assume that if a person isn't willing to post it in this forum they are basically admitting it would get torn to shreds. Preston Jacobs is a poster on these forums, under a different name. One of his more infamous arguments is that Dany and Jon being born "probably closer to 8 or 9 months" apart (as compared to the asker, who estimated a year), supports the idea that Dany and Jon can be twins, because 8/9 is closer to 0 than 12 months is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Hint. It's not. Based on misquotes and assumptions that fly in the face of text, logic, and SSM. I agree with you...but the OP was asking for an alternative...it's the closest thing I could think of on short notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm not sure what your saying there JonSnow4President? What does the length of a pregnancy have to do with Dany and Jon being Twins? You know what, don't even worry about explaining it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm not sure what your saying there JonSnow4President? What does the length of a pregnancy have to do with Dany and Jon being Twins? You know what, don't even worry about explaining it lol. Edited to fix. Was 8 or 9 months apart, instead of the estimate presented to GRRM of 1 year by the person who asked the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Preston Jacobs is a poster on these forums, under a different name. One of his more infamous arguments is that Dany and Jon being born "probably closer to 8 or 9 months" apart (as compared to the asker, who estimated a year), supports the idea that Dany and Jon can be twins, because 8/9 is closer to 0 than 12 months is.Lisa, I will buy your rock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Lisa, I will buy your rock! Am I the only one that doesn't get this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Am I the only one that doesn't get this? http://propterhoc.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/lisa-i-want-to-buy-your-rock/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 http://propterhoc.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/lisa-i-want-to-buy-your-rock/ Thanks JonCon. And now I feel like that was applied at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Thanks JonCon. And now I feel like that was applied at me. :lol: I think it's applied to many of the most crackpot theories here that are taken as something serious and are based on "logic like "as we don't know the colour of Lemore's eyes, and nothing says they aren't purple, then they probably are and she's Ashara because Ashara had purple eyes". The rule is If A = B, and B = C, then A = C. While that rule shouldn't completely be applied to analysing literature either, many assume that because A =/= B and A =/= C, then B = C, which is worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow4President Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 :lol: I think it's applied to many of the most crackpot theories here that are taken as something serious and are based on "logic like "as we don't know the colour of Lemore's eyes, and nothing says they aren't purple, then they probably are and she's Ashara because Ashara had purple eyes". The rule is If A = B, and B = C, then A = C. While that rule shouldn't completely be applied to analysing literature either, many assume that because A =/= B and A =/= C, then B = C, which is worst. Ah, I was thinking more I think this idea idea is crackpot, so of course it will sound crackpot when I type it out. Your way makes more sense (not that I had a problem with someone disagreeing with me, just thought James Arryn was a non-crackpot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Easy. Ned made a random woman never mentioned in the books a month or two after his marriage, they had sex and a baby was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Ah, I was thinking more I think this idea idea is crackpot, so of course it will sound crackpot when I type it out. Your way makes more sense (not that I had a problem with someone disagreeing with me, just thought James Arryn was a non-crackpot) Crackpot is fine. It's even fun. The problem is when a crackpot theory is insisted on us over and over despite the arguments disproving it, making the people believing it something like those little robot toys that keep crashing against the wall once and again until they run out of batteries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Thanks JonCon. And now I feel like that was applied at me.I was agreeing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.