Just what exactly were the Maesters of the Citadel up to?

[F The King]

In Theon's "Prince of Winterfell" chapter, Theon is told an interesting story.

"Every great lord has his maester, ever lesser lord aspires to one. If you do not have a maester, it is taken to mean that you are of little consequence. The grey rats read and write our letters, even for such lords as cannot read themselves, and who can say for a certainty that they are not twisting the words for their own ends? What good are they, I ask you?"

"They heal," said Theon. It seemed to be expected of him.

"They heal, yes. I never said they were not subtle. They tend to us when we are sick and injured, or distraught over the illness of a parent or child. Whenever we are weakest and most vulnerable, there they are.

"Sometimes they heal us, and we are duly grateful. When they fail, they console us in our grief, and we are grateful for that as well. Out of gratitude we give them a place beneath our roof and make them privy to all our shames and secrets, a part of every council. And before too long, the ruler has become the ruled.

"That was how it was with Lord Rickard Stark. Maester Walys was his grey rat's name. And isn't it clever how the maesters only go by one name, even those who had two when they first arrived at the Citadel? That way we cannot know who they truly are or where they come from...but if you are dogged enough, you can still find out.

"Before he had forged his chain, Maester Walys had been known as Walyn Flowers. Flowers, Hill, Rivers, Snow...we give such names to baseborn children to mark them for what they are, but they are always quick to shed them. Walys Flowers had a Hightower girl for a mother...and an archmaester of the Cidatel for a father, it was rumored. The grey rats are not as chaste as they would have us believe. Oldtown maesters are the worst of all.

"Once he forged his chain, his secret father and his friends wasted no time dispatching him to Winterfell to fill Lord Rickard's ears with poisoned words as sweet as honey. The Tully marriage was his notion, never doubt it, he -" She broke off as Roose Bolton rose to his feet, pale eyes shining in the torchlight.

It sounds like the Maesters of the Citadel have an agenda...any ideas?

[Ser Coffee The Bold]

It seems the agenda was to form alliances between great houses that could counterbalance the Targaryen dynasty.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Watch dragonless ambitions on YouTube

[Nilan8888]

I don't know that the alliance of houses thing is true -- at least not as per Maester involvement. I think it might have been some of those major/minor lords (like Hightower) plotting in self-interest, but if the Maesters wanted to get rid of the Targs, I don't see why they wouldn't have pounced a few years after the Dance was over and Aegon III was in his regency. Viserys was young then too (and mysteriously returned from exile himself) so I'm not sure why they couldn't just hire some faceless men to bump the two of them off. At that point almost all the Dragons were dead and a huge amount of Targs were dead too. Only a few years later both men would have children of their own, complicating the situation for the Citadel.

However, I do think they may have been involved in the Dance of the Dragons and trying to get rid of those Dragons. I don't think their aim was really to get rid of the Targs. Frankly things were better for them with the Targs keeping the kingdoms united.

[Joe Pine]

I'm sure there's a Grey Rat theory elsewhere and also a thread/theory on Southeron Ambitions relating to the intermarriage between Stark/Tully/Arryn and the fostering of Ned and Robert.

On the Maesters, bear in mind these men are not generally first or second born nobles, they are third/fourth sons, few enter by real choice and whilst the citadel may be open in recruitment it is unlikely to attract high numbers of lowborn entrants. There are exceptions such as Aemon.

It may be a more attractive proposition than joining the Night's Watch or the Faith of Seven, it might be a good option for highborn bastards too.

Their service isn't entirely baseless, some like Pycelle are not neutral in their advice, some may be better, but with access to the crows, it's easy to see there's plenty of chances to report to the Citadel, probably under cover of a weather report or something equally tedious. There's no references made directly to a cipher used by the Maesters, but presumably there is one.

The downsides are getting your head removed by your Lord, but they are inserted into the majority of leading families and the citadel will use their resources to gather information across the kingdoms. This might get disrupted at times of war, but it's in the Maester's own interest not to be seen as disloyal to 'their' house.

Have they influenced events in Westeros? Certainly. What they teach, how they practice their medicine, they influence minds, write books, make histories. There's a central resource at the Citadel, maybe in other cities too. I'm guessing at agents in the free cities too.

Do they know as much as Varys' network of little birds or the Faceless Men? Possibly but access to each castle's decision maker is an obvious advantage.

In my view, they're a player in the affairs of Westeros. Do they have a higher purpose or link to other groups? Or is their own agenda foremost?

[F The King]

I don't know that the alliance of houses thing is true -- at least not as per Maester involvement. I think it might have been some of those major/minor lords (like Hightower) plotting in self-interest, but if the Maesters wanted to get rid of the Targs, I don't see why they wouldn't have pounced a few years after the Dance was over and Aegon III was in his regency. Viserys was young then too (and mysteriously returned from exile himself) so I'm not sure why they couldn't just hire some faceless men to bump the two of them off. At that point almost all the Dragons were dead and a huge amount of Targs were dead too. Only a few years later both men would have children of their own, complicating the situation for the Citadel.

However, I do think they may have been involved in the Dance of the Dragons and trying to get rid of those Dragons. I don't think their aim was really to get rid of the Targs. Frankly things were better for them with the Targs keeping the kingdoms united.

Well, there is a theory that dragons only growing as large as where they're kept is a myth, and that the Maesters were actually just poisoning the dragons and intentionally inhibiting their growth, using that as an excuse.

[Nilan8888]

Well, there is a theory that dragons only growing as large as where they're kept is a myth, and that the Maesters were actually just poisoning the dragons and intentionally inhibiting their growth, using that as an excuse.

I suppose that's a possibility, but they'd have had to experiment to figure out what poisons would work, and that's pretty dangerous with the Targs more or less right there.

I was watching that Preston Jacobs theory, and basically I only thought the first half, that MAYBE the Maesters were working in concert to set the Targs against one another, was plausible. Although there is something fishy about the Southron Ambitions scenario as well, I don't think the Citadel is really involved in it.

But I was watching and DID think it odd that Rhaenrya would send an order for Nettles to be executed. As Preston noted, there were more pressing concerns at the time, but more importantly she didn't strike me as someone who would be jealous of whoever Daemon was with. Criston Cole and Harwin Strong bedding other women I could see her being very, very angry about enough to do that, but reading the accounts it struck me that she and Daemon entered into that marriage for the sake of convenience after having been through a number of screwed up relationships. It seemed to me that they loved each other, but that it was never romantic, and they both understood that.

So it would seem to me that a possible forgery of that order made sense in order to get rid of another Dragon. I'd buy that, and that there may have been Maester/Oldtown conspiracy in other little things, and maybe even that the mob charging the Dragon pit was orchestrated so that a few dozen trained men could be planted in the crowd with the purpose of making sure those dragons were put down.

But if they wanted to get rid of the Targs as well, it just doesn't seem likely to me that they'd wait 150 odd years more to do it, when the best opportunity to get rid of them was probably not long after the Dance of the Dragons had ended.

[sagewich]

I am disappointed nothing much has happen since the Faceless Man arrived and is entrenched in the Citadel. I apologize that I am away from home, and do not have the name of the maester who packed hurriedly and headed off to find Dany. That little story line just dried up.

I think the Citadel discourages magic everywhere. The maester at Winterfell was dismissing magic right off.