EruditeFool Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 The Kathleen Hale and Requires Hate threads got me thinking.... I was having coffee with self-published author J Leigh Bralick this morning (we were publishing my first novella) and the Kathleen Hale incident came up. We considered maybe there should be a guild for self-published authors, a way for readers to know that this author is reliable. The guild would have codes of conduct and rules that violation of any could result in suspension or termination of membership. Meanwhile, the guild stamp of approval could be a signal to the readers that this author should be reliable. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hale is as far from a self published author as you can get though, and I'm no sure ROTH was self published either. The really scary one was when that actual self published author in Scottland tracked down someone who gave him a one star review and physically assaulted her at her work place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 This guild seems way too hard to manage, and I'm not sure how useful it would be. What exactly would the criteria be? I mean most of what I read nowadays is nonfiction, and I'm happy to read works of people I feel disgust toward from a political standpoint. Fiction is a bit trickier, since it's primarily entertainment, but even here it's hard to justify a guild as the primary thing people want is to get their money's worth regarding the content itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Plus I don't think the type of people who do these type of things are going to give two fucks about a guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Plus I don't think the type of people who do these type of things are going to give two fucks about a guild. Isn't it much more impressive when you fuck with people with a nice letterhead that identifies you as a member of a self published authors guild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Uh, no? I mean, the one self published author involved in all of this has a blog about stalking and then drove across Scotland to assault someone who gave him a one star review on goodreads. It wasn't even one of those OMG THIS IS SUXOR reviews, it was a well thought out and written piece on why his self published book sucked. And Hale is about as far from self published as you can get. She's engaged to one of the Simon and Schulster kids ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 The fact that Hale is not self-published makes it even worse. From the way the story is being reported, it paints Hale like she is self-published. Maybe the guild was an idea that sounded better as an ideal but would be nigh impossible to implement. Regardless, there needs to be some of way for the reader to know that an author is not mentally unstable and will stalk you if you give them a bad review. It would be nice if lesser known self-published authors actually got some recognition and there was a way to weed out the crazies. :commie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It would be nice if lesser known self-published authors actually got some recognition and there was a way to weed out the crazies. :commie: I could so get behind this. Just because we're not signed to a tradpub doesn't mean we shouldn't be held to standards of quality. Of course, that assumes that the tradpubs apply those standards themselves. I have written some well polished, absolutely terribly tradpub books. Great googlymooglies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 I could so get behind this. Just because we're not signed to a tradpub doesn't mean we shouldn't be held to standards of quality. Of course, that assumes that the tradpubs apply those standards themselves. I have written some well polished, absolutely terribly tradpub books. Great googlymooglies. Not just that. There are decent selfpub books out there that are far better than many tradpub books. I mean, Terry "chicken-that-is-not-a-chicken" Goodkind and Robert Newcomb got tradpublished. Self-Publishing is a great thing as it cuts out the middleman and ensures that more proceeds actually make it back to the author (Createspace even allows for physical copies to be printed on demand). We just need a way to distinguish the wheat from the chaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Well, none of you take this as a slight towards you, but a lot of self published stuff seems to be by people whi think they wrote the perfect book, and no editor or agent is going to DARE tell them otherwise. And of course, its shit. So the idea of them joining a guild that would DARE to dictate to them about their PERFECT work would be, yeah no. There's some good self published stuff out there and I like the idea, but It's not going to stop the types of things we're seeing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Well, none of you take this as a slight towards you, but a lot of self published stuff seems to be by people whi think they wrote the perfect book, and no editor or agent is going to DARE tell them otherwise. And of course, its shit. So the idea of them joining a guild that would DARE to dictate to them about their PERFECT work would be, yeah no. There's some good self published stuff out there and I like the idea, but It's not going to stop the types of things we're seeing here. "The first draft of anything is shit."- Ernest Hemingway I agree actually. An important lesson every author needs to learn is to find beta-readers and editors who will challenge and question them. An author that works in isolation will never learn how to improve their quality. Seriously, ALWAYS hire an editor. A lot of self-published authors don't realize this. :bang: Anyway... the guild. The intention wasn't to stop the behavior so much as to differentiate between selfpub authors who act this way versus those who don't. I personally went into self-publishing for the following reasons: 1. I knew an author who already had gone down that path, so I knew it could work. 2. I had some editors already, so I didn't need another set of them (too many cooks, and all that) 3. Creative control should be in the hands of writer, not the marketing team. While I have no problems with making necessary changes I didn't want to have to scrap everything to fit demographic requirements or some such thing. I knew a guy who went tradpub and had to rewrite his entire story to be a children's story instead of YA because "it lacks a strong female lead and won't be marketable to the teen and young female demographic". Seeing as mine has 4-5 main POV's it would lack "a main character", so tradpub was out of the question. 4. Profits. I wanted a larger royalty :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Heh, I can think of a certain big name fantasy author who refuses to use an editor.Hint: goats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I've ben thinking about this, and to get such a guild started I think you'd need buy-in from two different groups. First, some commercially successful indie authors would have to agree to serve on a board or whatever, to lend the organization some credibility. Second, some high-profile reviewers would have to agree to review guild-approved books, which means dropping their principled objections to indie works. Obviously, there would be other necessities, but without these two I don't think anything else matters. Authors aren't going to take the guild seriously unless there are benefits to joining, and reviewers aren't going to take the guild seriously unless someone with literary heft gets behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Heh, I can think of a certain big name fantasy author who refuses to use an editor.Hint: goats You deny the power of the almighty chicken? :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: I've ben thinking about this, and to get such a guild started I think you'd need buy-in from two different groups. First, some commecially successful indie authors would have to agree to serve on a board or whatever, to lend the organization some credibility. Second, some high-profile reviewers would have to agree to review guild-approved books, which means dropping their principled objections to indie works. Obviously, there would be other necessities, but without these two I don't think anything else matters. Authors aren't going to take the guild seriously unless there are benefits to joining, and reviewers aren't going to take the guild seriously unless someone with literary heft gets behind it. Maybe even get a non-Indie author on board as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Maybe even get a non-Indie author on board as well? That would be a dream. If, say, Daniel Abraham would sign on as a member of the "board" (or whatever), that would go a long way towards legitimizing the organization. This idea is beginning to intrigue me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 As a consumer of books, this is something I would like to see. I've only read two self-pub authors before: Hugh Howey (because of all the hype) and Neil (because he's cool on this board). I liked both enough to buy multiple books from them and enjoyed them all. But I'm not comfortable enough with the idea of spending money on self-pub books that don't have either some sort of connection (like with Neil) or someone who just has an overwhelming reputation (like Howey). But, if there was a board that was willing to sign off on certain indie authors and say, "This guy/gal is quality, you should check out their work," I would be much more likely to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EruditeFool Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 As a consumer of books, this is something I would like to see. I've only read two self-pub authors before: Hugh Howey (because of all the hype) and Neil (because he's cool on this board). I liked both enough to buy multiple books from them and enjoyed them all. But I'm not comfortable enough with the idea of spending money on self-pub books that don't have either some sort of connection (like with Neil) or someone who just has an overwhelming reputation (like Howey). But, if there was a board that was willing to sign off on certain indie authors and say, "This guy/gal is quality, you should check out their work," I would be much more likely to do so. I haven't a full book from either of these authors, but they are on my list. One of them is my editor. http://www.amazon.com/J.-Leigh-Bralick/e/B0051RWBAO/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1414512355&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/S.K.-Valenzuela/e/B008HF11M6/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1414512385&sr=1-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Heh, I can think of a certain big name fantasy author who refuses to use an editor.Hint: goats I don't recall any goats in Wise Man's Fear. But, if there was a board that was willing to sign off on certain indie authors and say, "This guy/gal is quality, you should check out their work," I would be much more likely to do so. I feel like this could be better accomplished by a site dedicated to reviewing self-published titles. I'm unclear on what a guild would bring unless its policing behavior...and at that point I think the invasion of privacy is problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm unclear on what a guild would bring unless its policing behavior...and at that point I think the invasion of privacy is problematic. No invasion of privacy. The guild could review works submitted to it and issue (or withhold) a stamp of approval that would (one would hope) serve as notice that the work is quality. Those indie authors who chose not to submit their works would of course still be free to self-publish as they saw fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Does this group make you more or less inclined to read tie-in fiction? (I ask this having friends who write tie-in fiction) I applaud the desire to build credibility around good self-pub novels, but a guild of self-pubbed writers will still be judged the same by people who don't read self-pubbed novels. Getting someone like Dan Abraham would add considerable weight to such a group, but it will be a long journey uphill to raise public awareness of quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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