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Lusty Lucamore=Baratheon Ancestor(New Theory/Long Read)


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This is my theory on Lucamore the Lusty and his ties to the Baratheons and other Characters. Enjoy!



Ser Lucamore was a member of the Kingsguard during the reign of Jaehaerys I. He broke his vows and fathered sixteen children on three women. When his Sworn Brothers found out, they informed the king who had him gelded and sent to the Wall to join the Night's Watch. He was never known as Lucamore the Lusty while he lived the name came from a humorous song made after his death.


“The truth is not so funny. He was never called Lucamore the Lusty whilst he lived. His name was Ser Lucamore Strong, and his whole life was a lie. When his deceit was discovered, his own Sworn Brothers gelded him, and the Old King sent him to the Wall. Those sixteen children were left weeping."


In the first book (GOT), the events that take place are catalyzed by the death of Jon Arryn and his last words, “The seed is strong”. This is one of the most significant lines in the entire series and we all know that he was referring to Robert’s offspring, however, a man's last words should not be taken with a grain of salt.



Cersei: Will the king and I have children?


Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”




However, when we first see the excerpt where “The seed is strong” can be found, most people do not pay attention to the rest of the paragraph.


The seed is strong, Jon Arryn had cried on his deathbed, and so it was. All those bastards, all with hair as black as night. Grand Maester Malleon recorded the last mating between stag and lion, some ninety years ago, when Tya Lannister wed Gowen Baratheon, third son of the reigning lord. Their only issue, an unnamed boy described in Malleon’s tome as a large and lusty lad born with a full head of black hair, died in infancy.”




Later we learned that Lucamore has a song:



Arianne: “Yes, and what of Lucamore the Lusty, with his three wives and sixteen children? The song always makes me laugh.”




Although we do not yet know which specific song is about Lucamore yet, the biggest contender is a song called “The Lusty Lad” and one of the strongest men in the seven kingdoms sang it at the Red Wedding.



“The musicians were playing “Iron Lances” by then, while the Greatjon sang “The Lusty Lad.”




I would also like to mention an excerpt from the Rogue Prince which you should know by now is full of scandelous carnal recounts by mushroom and some even from the septon. The ONLY time the word "Lusty" is used is when describing a child. That child is Lucerys Velaryon the rumored son of Harwin Strong. ***Also note the similarities in the names of Lucerys & Lucamore.



"The child was named Lucerys (Luke for short). Septon Eustace tells us that both Ser Laenor and Ser Harwin were at Rhaenyra’s bedside for his birth. Like his brother Jace, Luke had brown eyes and a healthy head of brown hair, rather than the silver-gilt hair of Targaryen princelings, but he was a large and lusty lad, and King Viserys was delighted with him when the child was presented at court."




This raises the question: With all of the sexual scandal happening and in the Rogue Prince storyline why would GRRM choose the word "lusty" to describe a little boy? Yes, I understand lusty can mean healthy, but still that is the only time it was used in TRP.



Now lets take a look again at "the seed is strong" excerpt.


The seed is strong, Jon Arryn had cried on his deathbed, and so it was. All those bastards, all with hair as black as night. Grand Maester Malleon recorded the last mating between stag and lion, some ninety years ago, when Tya Lannister wed Gowen Baratheon, third son of the reigning lord. Their only issue, an unnamed boy described in Malleon’s tome as a large and lusty lad born with a full head of black hair, died in infancy.”


I also found it peculiar how GRRM uses the Bull imagery in describing Gendry and King Robert. I mean granted, yes the bull is a large and powerful animal blah, blah, blah…BUT there are so many large and powerful animals in the present, extinct, and mythological worlds to choose from, and why have all Stag similarities and attributes been left out completely? And why have I found similarities in the characteristics of the Bull symbolism in Stannis and Renly?


“In Celtic symbolism the bull represented physical strength and power. To the Celtic way of thought, the bull was also extremely virile, and so symbolized fertility and the power to procreate …The Celtic bull symbol stands for strong will, an uncompromising nature, and even belligerence. Due to its unbending, stubborn personality traits, we get the term "bull-headed." …A third representation of the bull sign is that of riches and wealth. Likely due to the fact that this creature was a great source of food the Celts, it can easily be associated with easier, fairer, and abundant times in the Celtic villages.” http://www.whats-your-sign.com/bull-symbols.html


“Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He’ll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he’s copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.—Donal Noye (Renly also has much imagery with richness, food and abundant times due to his alliance with the Tyrells)


"Taena’s black eyes sparkled with mischief. “When she wed Lord Renly at Highgarden, I helped disrobe him for the bedding. His lordship was a well-made man, and lusty."




"The gold cloaks had named them the Three Whores, because they’d be giving Lord Stannis such a lusty welcome. Or so we hope."


Lets take a closer look at Bulls and their fertility symbolism for just a moment. In both Celtic, and Greek mythology as well as many early cultures viewed the Bull as a symbol or fertility as well. In modern day:


  • An "intact" (i.e., not castrated) adult male cow is called a bull.
  • If they are castrated young enough they are called steer
  • Improper or late castration on a bull results in it becoming a coarse steer known as a STAG

Now remember what happened to Lucamore Strong’s little Lucamore? He was castrated and sent to the wall.



Considering this, I believe Lucamore the Lusty and the Baratheons/Gendry are his kin. I believe there is a possibility of others characters as well (he had 16 kids remember). Some possibilities include the following:


  • Ser Duncan the Tall
  • Lady Breinne of Tarth
  • Grenn (The Aurochs)
  • Gerold Hightower (AKA the White Bull)
  • Gregor Clegan (AKA Ser Strong)
  • Sandor Clegan
  • Duck from the Golden Company
  • Hodor
  • Tyrion (see theory here)
“The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all. But this was a woman. A huge cow of a woman, to be sure, but even so … by rights, she should be the one wearing down.” --Jaime


Evenfall Hall is the seat of House Tarth in the Stormlands. It is located on the western coast of the island of Tarth along Shipbreaker Bay. Breinne found a shield with Ser Duncan's personal sigil in Evenfall Hall.



“True enough. Have you chosen your ravens yet, Tarly?”


“M-m-maester Aemon m-means to p-pick them come evenfall, after the f-f-feeding.” “I’ll have his best. Smart birds, and strong.”


“Strong,” his own bird said, preening. “Strong, strong.”





***Also, Duncan Strong is a sellsword in service to the Golden Company.



Blacksmith references:


"The Smith, he labors day and night, to put the world of men to


right. With hammer, plow, and fire bright, he builds for little children."


  • Gendry and Robert are both associated with Hammers.
  • Robert used his iconic warhammer which he prefered better than swords, stating that his hands were made for hammers.
  • Gendry is a Blacksmith.
  • The Blacksmith in Winterfell is named "Mikken" A wild, young, unmarked bull is known as a "micky" in Australia.
  • Donal Noye is a previous Baratheon servant and Blacksmith
  • Erik Ironmaker, known as Erik Anvil-Breaker, is an ironborn raider and is the elderly head of House Ironmaker. Erik weighs around twenty stone and is eighty-eight years old. He has white hair and his long, massive beard is white too. He has to be carried about in a chair. His weapon of choice is a monstrous hammer.
  • The blacksmith of Harrenhall (The previous seat of the House Strong) is named Lucan
  • "He saw his brother Robb, taller and stronger than he remembered him, practicing swordplay in the yard with real steel in his hand. He saw Hodor, the simple giant from the stables, carrying an anvil to Mikken’s forge, hefting it onto his shoulder as easily as another man might heft a bale of hay."

  • "He could see himself on the cold stone floor, a little broken thing, but he wasn’t broken now. He grabbed Hodor’s longsword. The breathing was as loud as a blacksmith’s bellows."--Bran while "inside" Hodor



Some other influences maybe?


  • "Luca" is a name that means "bringer of light"
  • St. Luke is often accompanied by an ox or bull

Stannis


Also... Remember Patchface? Yeah that cryptic fool of Stannis Baratheon who wears a helmet to mock the stag helm worn by House Baratheon. Take a look at the description of it below:




"queer sideways walk of his, came her fool. On his head was a mock helm fashioned from an old tin bucket, with a rack of deer antlers strapped to the crown and hung with cowbells. With his every lurching step, the bells rang,each with a different voice, clang-a-dang bong-dong ring-a-ling clong clong clong."





"Melisandre said , “Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer with the heart’s blood of his own beloved wife. If a man with a thousand cows gives one to god, that is nothing. But a man who offers the only cow he owns …” “She talks of cows,” Davos told the king. “I am speaking of a boy, your daughter’s friend, your brother’s son.”





Grenn


  • His nickname is the Aurochs which is an extinct bovine aka Bull.
  • His BFF is "Pyp" who was a singer prior to joining the Night's watch
  • Do you all remember the song "Pip" sang to Miss Havisham In Great Expectations? She had him sing a song about St. Clementine who is the patron Saint of Blacksmiths

"Pip responds with a ditty from Joe’s forge ‘that imitated the measure of beating upon iron’: ‘... hammer boys round - Old Clem! With a thump and a sound - Old Clem! Beat it out, beat it out - Old Clem! With a clink for the stout - Old Clem! Blow the fire, blow the fire - Old Clem! Roaring dryer, soaring higher - Old Clem!"


  • Pyp/Grenn = Pip/Clem Also Pyp's storyline is similar to Pip in the unrequited love department

Duck


Ser Rolly Duckfield, also known as Duck, is a knight in service to Young Griff whose father was a blacksmith. He joined the Golden Company as an apprentice smith and then served Ser Harry Strickland as a squire and later became a knight.



Having no second name Rolly choose the name Duckfield because he was in a field with some ducks when he was knighted, earning him the nickname "Duck".



Mya


GRRM used another bovine for Mya, the yak.



"Domesticated yaks have been kept for thousands of years, primarily for their milk, fibre and meat, and as beasts of burden. Yaks transport goods across mountain passes for local farmers and traders as well as for climbing and trekking expeditions."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak




Aesop For Children (Three Bulls and a Lion)


"A Lion had been watching three Bulls feeding in an open field. He had tried to attack them several times, but they had kept together, and helped each other to drive him off. The Lion had little hope of eating them, for he was no match for three strong Bulls with their sharp horns and hoofs. But he could not keep away from that field, for it is hard to resist watching a good meal, even when there is little chance of getting it.



Then one day the Bulls had a quarrel, and when the hungry Lion came to look at them and lick his chops as he was accustomed to do, he found them in separate corners of the field, as far away from one another as they could get.



It was now an easy matter for the Lion to attack them one at a time, and this he proceeded to do with the greatest satisfaction and relish."





Any thoughts?



Edit done on 10/29/14 to include info from The Rogue Prince


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Good question! . I think the tale of Lucamore calls them "wives" but they were not wives by law. Also, characters don't have to be married to produce children sometimes they were passed off as their husband's children, other times they could be bastards with a sliver of a chance of legitimization i.e.



Jaime/Cersie,


Rhaenyra/Harwin Strong,


Lollys/hundred men.



Lucamore the Lusty lived 200 years prior to the events in ASOIAF and allows as many as 10 generations of offspring.


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The symbolism of the bulls and relating that to the baratheon brothers is really clever, i never would have picked it. Seeing how you laid it all out makes alot of sense as well as the bull with other characters. I don't really know too much about Lucamore the Lusty but you have an idea and backed it with some sound evidence!

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The symbolism of the bulls and relating that to the baratheon brothers is really clever, i never would have picked it. Seeing how you laid it all out makes alot of sense as well as the bull with other characters. I don't really know too much about Lucamore the Lusty but you have an idea and backed it with some sound evidence!

Thanks for the feedback, this theory is still evolving. I am still digging. I have found some mythology referencing a bull and a stag killing the storm god as well. Should have it tied in today.

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  • 5 months later...

One of the reasons I think George is making the switch between bull and stag has to do with the sacrificial animal that brings the spring, which is usually a bull. But George’s sacrificial Ba’al character is Garth the Green - he’s combining the widespread “green man” myth with the sacrificial bull idea in Garth. The “older version” of Garth, says TWOAIF, is one where he has to die every fall and be resurrected din the spring to make the plants bloom. So, essentially, George is saying that he’s done a switch - the bull imagery applies to the stag in his world. The Baratheons, the stag, have adopted all the bull imagery, as has Garth the Green.


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One of the reasons I think George is making the switch between bull and stag has to do with the sacrificial animal that brings the spring, which is usually a bull. But George’s sacrificial Ba’al character is Garth the Green - he’s combining the widespread “green man” myth with the sacrificial bull idea in Garth. The “older version” of Garth, says TWOAIF, is one where he has to die every fall and be resurrected din the spring to make the plants bloom. So, essentially, George is saying that he’s done a switch - the bull imagery applies to the stag in his world. The Baratheons, the stag, have adopted all the bull imagery, as has Garth the Green.

Hold on. So Garth the Green is Westerosi Leaf King? The guy whos face is on so many buildings?!

Nice.

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Hold on. So Garth the Green is Westerosi Leaf King? The guy whos face is on so many buildings?!

Nice.

You’ve read TWOIAF, right?

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