Salafi Stannis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Do you then sign every petition? Are you then obligated to support any campaign against meat-eating?No, because I'm not a vegetarian. I was just disagreeing with Theda's logic about how if you believe animals shouldn't die for us to eat them, you should either try to stop all animals being killed for meat or you don't try at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 No, because I'm not a vegetarian. I was just disagreeing with Theda's logic about how if you believe animals shouldn't die for us to eat them, you should either try to stop all animals being killed for meat or you don't try at all. There's a difference between personally not wanting animals to die for food and being against anyone using animals for food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 There's a difference between personally not wanting animals to die for food and being against anyone using animals for food.But Theda is saying that they're not going to sign simply because "Well, eating animals is wrong but if we let people eat cows and pigs why not let them eat dogs too?" So they're basically saying that they'll sign a petition about not eating all animal meat but not for specific animals, which goes against the main logic of vegetarianism. Shouldn't they be saying "If you can't help them all at least help some"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But Theda is saying that they're not going to sign simply because "Well, eating animals is wrong but if we let people eat cows and pigs why not let them eat dogs too?" So they're basically saying that they'll sign a petition about not eating all animal meat but not for specific animals, which goes against the main logic of vegetarianism. Shouldn't they be saying "If you can't help them all at least help some"? Maybe not appearing to be a paternalistic do-gooder towards other people's cultures, a behavior that may leak into other fields and have a big impact> signing this one petition. Different values struggling. Not that that is clearly what these guys are, the dogs do seem to be suffering, but they don't help themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 But Theda is saying that they're not going to sign simply because "Well, eating animals is wrong but if we let people eat cows and pigs why not let them eat dogs too?" So they're basically saying that they'll sign a petition about not eating all animal meat but not for specific animals, which goes against the main logic of vegetarianism. Shouldn't they be saying "If you can't help them all at least help some"? Think you need to reread what she said, cause that's not it. She talking about people who eat meat being fine with eating chickens pigs and cows but against eating dog. Nowhere though did she say anything approaching eating animals is wrong. And again being personally against eating animals doesn't mean your against other eating animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Maybe not appearing to be a paternalistic do-gooder towards other people's cultures, a behavior that may leak into other fields and have a big impact> signing this one petition. Different values struggling. Not that that is clearly what these guys are, the dogs do seem to be suffering, but they don't help themselves. Alas, in any case, doing what I can to stop dogs being skinned or burned alive seems like a good idea, so signed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Think you need to reread what she said, cause that's not it. She talking about people who eat meat being fine with eating chickens pigs and cows but against eating dog. Nowhere though did she say anything approaching eating animals is wrong. And gain being personally against eating animals doesn't mean your against other eating animals.Well that is the reason why almost every vegetarian is a vegetarian, because they believe eating meat is wrong. If Theda is in fact vegetarian for other than moral reasons then I apologise I was just making an assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Maybe not appearing to be a paternalistic do-gooder towards other people's cultures, a behavior that may leak into other fields and have a big impact> signing this one petition. Different values struggling. Not that that is clearly what these guys are, the dogs do seem to be suffering, but they don't help themselves. They're saying that the majority of Thai people don't agree with eating dogs, especially when they are killed so cruelly. They want a complete ban and seem to think most Thai people want this as well. From the article in The Independent : John Dalley, Vice President of the Soi Dog Foundation, said: “Thai people do not consider dogs or cats as food. Some ethnic groups and foreign nationals working in Thailand do, but this is no excuse not to make the practice illegal in a country where the vast majority of its citizens find dog meat consumption abhorrent." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 They're saying that the majority of Thai people don't agree with eating dogs, especially when they are killed so cruelly. They want a complete ban and seem to think most Thai people want this as well. From the article in The Independent : John Dalley, Vice President of the Soi Dog Foundation, said: “Thai people do not consider dogs or cats as food. Some ethnic groups and foreign nationals working in Thailand do, but this is no excuse not to make the practice illegal in a country where the vast majority of its citizens find dog meat consumption abhorrent." Not really sure if anyone cares if the Thais don't like people eating dogs. I certainly wouldn't sign a petition over it. It's not like they're being oppressed by the dog-eaters here. The argument has to be that it is the most efficient path to a cruelty-free field. And that's where they skimp. (Though the implication is of course that it's a minority practice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's not like they're being oppressed by the dog-eaters here. The argument has to be that it is the most efficient path to a cruelty-free field. And that's where they skimp. (Though the implication is of course that it's a minority practice) I think it's interesting that it's a Thai based charity, and that they feel the need to get international support to get the attention of the Thai government. Perhaps the will of the people is ignored, if so it's a no-brainer for them to get Western celebrities and petitions to embarrass the Thai government into taking action. Not really sure if anyone cares if the Thais don't like people eating dogs. Your sentiment here seems a liitle inconsistent with a previous post: Maybe not appearing to be a paternalistic do-gooder towards other people's cultures, a behavior that may leak into other fields and have a big impact> signing this one petition. Different values struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think people totally care about dogs getting boiled. I don't think that they care because someone somewhere is annoyed at a minority in their country doing something they don't like. I don't think that anyone would ever make that argument to get attention and the people making this video certainly didn't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think people totally care about dogs getting boiled. I don't think that they care because someone somewhere is annoyed at a minority in their country doing something they don't like. I don't think that anyone would ever make that argument to get attention and the people making this video certainly didn't bother. I agree completely. I must say however that I personally didn't know this previously, I assumed Thai people ate dogs as a cultural norm, just as we eat cows and pigs. A dumb assumption on my part, seeing as their culture is 90% Buddhist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think it's interesting that it's a Thai based charity, and that they feel the need to get international support to get the attention of the Thai government. Perhaps the will of the people is ignored, if so it's a no-brainer for them to get Western celebrities and petitions to embarrass the Thai government into taking action.I don't think it's at all clear that it's a Thai NGO, rather than one based in Thailand run by western expats. Perhaps someone who can read Thai can read the Thai version of the website and let us know if there's an indication that Thai people are involved?Also ETA, in my experience even though it's predominantly Buddhist there are not many vegetarians there who aren't monks or nuns and strict vegetarianism (no fish sauce) would be very difficult there unless you're cooking your own meals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyenon15 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 It seems killing or selling dogs for meat is already illegal.And, unlike some Asian countries, there is no history of mainstream dog eating in Thailand.Looks like most of the dogs captured in Thailand make their way to Vietnam, where dog is common and legal.This current spike in Thai illegal dog trade looks to be a result of the 2011 floods.Seems the petition/movement was started by Thailands own citizens, Gervais and Company are just lending support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't think it's at all clear that it's a Thai NGO, rather than one based in Thailand run by western expats. Perhaps someone who can read Thai can read the Thai version of the website and let us know if there's an indication that Thai people are involved? The Vice-President is called John Dalley, which sounds very expat indeed. Presumably he's just the mouthpiece and the actual President has a nice traditional Thai name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't think the founders are Thai (names are not anyway) and I see no evidence of Thai people's involvement on the website. Soi Dog was founded in 2003 by Margot Homburg Park and John and Gill Dalley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't think the founders are Thai (names are not anyway) and I see no evidence of Thai people's involvement on the website.Soi Dog was founded in 2003 by Margot Homburg Park and John and Gill Dalley"Dalley" and "Homburg Park" aren't doing themselves any favours here. Can't these people find just one English-fluent Thai person to represent them and at least try to give all this a veneer of authenticity?On a more serious note, it would be unpleasant to find out that Thai people don't support the campaign and are being misrepresented here. Hopefully that's not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox Irradiata Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Alas, in any case, doing what I can to stop dogs being skinned or burned alive seems like a good idea, so signed anyway.This. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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