[TWOIAF SPOILERS] Valyria, Free Cities, and further East Discussion thread

[Stannis's Lawyer]

I was really pleased with how much material it had on Yi Ti and the Far East. It's obviously the "Imperial China" equivalent in the Martinworld, and the Maesters treat it as such - it's considered fascinating and very important even if it is far away, and they have some good detail on it even if the scholars of Yi Ti are really stingy with their records.

I have issues with Yi Ti. The app claims that Yi Ti is not an absolute monarchy. It's also hot and full of jungles. That's not imperial China.

Also, by the 1300s absolutely nobody thought the Emperor was an actual Son of Heaven.

[Ser Lepus]

I have issues with Yi Ti. The app claims that Yi Ti is not an absolute monarchy. It's also hot and full of jungles. That's not imperial China.

Also, by the 1300s absolutely nobody thought the Emperor was an actual Son of Heaven.

It does not have to be a copycat imperial China. It can take inspiration on Thailand, on Cambodja and on Vietnam. And China was split into warring kingdoms during some periods of its history.

And anyways, I like it better when fantasy countries aren't straight copies of real world countries.

[David C. Hunter]

The Thousand Islands from pretty freaky too, but like you said "Social justice Bass" I really, really enjoyed reading about Yi Ti and Leng. Very good reads

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Leng is so mysterious and creepy. I love the part where it says Empress of Leng is said to have talks with Old Ones. I was like whaaaat?!?!?

[David C. Hunter]

Leng is so mysterious and creepy. I love the part where it says Empress of Leng is said to have talks with Old Ones. I was like whaaaat?!?!?

It has to be the COTF or something like that. Im starting to speculate about these so-called benevolent Children

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

It has to be the COTF or something like that. Im starting to speculate about these so-called benevolent Children

Yea it's definitely them, the underground cities sound exactly like the ones the children make in Westeros.

The descriptions of the Leng peoples eyes are similar to the children. I'm not a big fan of CotF mating with humans theories, but I guess this is one case where it's actually possible based on the evidence that there was some form of mating.

they have large golden eyes and can supposedly see farther and better than other men, especially at night.

[HexMachina]

Yea it's definitely them, the underground cities sound exactly like the ones the children make in Westeros.

The descriptions of the Leng peoples eyes are similar to the children. I'm not a big fan of CotF mating with humans theories, but I guess this is one case where it's actually possible based on the evidence that there was some form of mating.

But the people of Leng are ridiculously tall too, whereas the Children are much smaller than humans. How would you explain that? (I'm genuinely curious, not being condescending)

[Mrs.Grumpy]

No no no no no no no no no.

Old Ones are not the cotf. They are better than that!

No.

Considering all that Lovecraft references, I expect them to be something horrible and freakish. The soldiers came back as mad-men. I don't think the children are capable of such thing. They must be really scary, cosmic and freaky.

Lengii are our inhumanly beautiful black people with unnatural eyes, whereas Valyrians are inhumanly beautiful white people with unnatural eyes.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

But the people of Leng are ridiculously tall too, whereas the Children are much smaller than humans. How would you explain that? (I'm genuinely curious, not being condescending)

Yea I just re-read it and realized their taller than the ordinary human, hmm I guess the old ones might be something else completely or if they are the CotF the eyesight was more of a gift rather than an inherited trait.

No no no no no no no no no.

Old Ones are not the cotf. They are better than that!

No.

Considering all that Lovecraft references, I expect them to be something horrible and freakish. The soldiers came back as mad-men. I don't think the children are capable of such thing. They must be really scary, cosmic and freaky.

Lengii are our inhumanly beautiful black people with unnatural eyes, whereas Valyrians are inhumanly beautiful white people with unnatural eyes.

But the difference is that the Valyrians eyes don't have any extra ability to them vs the Leng people who have an eye colour and ability exactly the same as the CotF. The CotF can skinchange, so the men becoming mad be under control and fighting against the children having control (This is just crackpot nothing to support it)

[HexMachina]

Yea I just re-read it and realized their taller than the ordinary human, hmm I guess the old ones might be something else completely or if they are the CotF the eyesight was more of a gift rather than an inherited trait.

Well, the Old Ones gave me a vibe more akin to the Others :dunno: Maybe some sort of similar type of creature?

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Yea I just re-read it and realized their taller than the ordinary human, hmm I guess the old ones might be something else completely or if they are the CotF the eyesight was more of a gift rather than an inherited trait.

But the difference is that the Valyrians eyes don't have any extra ability to them vs the Leng people who have an eye colour and ability exactly the same as the CotF. The CotF can skinchange, so the men becoming mad be under control and fighting against the children having control (This is just crackpot nothing to support it)

Yeah, I know purple eyes are just for cosmetic purposes :laugh:

To be honest, I never made a connection between Lengii's golden eyes and the cotf, maybe because I'm strongly against the idea that Naathi are somehow connected with the cotf.

You are right about the warging part. That would make them go mad. :dunno:

It's a shame that we will probably never discover the truth about Old Ones :crying:

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Well, the Old Ones gave me a vibe more akin to the Others :dunno: Maybe some sort of similar type of creature?

I guess their mysterious nature and disdain for people invading their territory kind of gives that vibe, it could be their kin, like how in other stories we have dark elves and light elves. The latter is actually how I actually see the others and the CotF.

It's a shame that we will probably never discover the truth about Old Ones :crying:

Fingers crossed for them to be in the GRRMilion :p

[Equilibrium]

I prefer Lovecraftian vibe of Deep Ones.

In my opinion to the stranger coming to Asshai and just waiting to leave asap, not seeing children equals no children. Adults wear masks probably for protection, so children are forbidden to get out because they are fragile hence no one ever saw children there is some thing toxic or pseudo-radioactive in the Shadow possibly similar to Ruins of Valyria so children are kept safe.

And don't put too much faith in what is said here, if you ever read some real antique of medieval Chronicle/History you will see why this is written as it is. They did great job in using that literal style further improved by inserting misconception we already know for not true and adding some pseudo-scientific (pseudo-anthropological) explanations for various things.

[Lord Varys]

Did anyone realize how many Free Companies there are in the East, by the way? There you go 'Stannis can't hire any men because they are all already Slaver's Bay' theory.

Most intriguing was this Company of the Rose founded by Northmen who didn't like the Targaryen Conquest all that much...

Other thing: The bad defenses Pentos has against any attack on land and sea is clearly very important in light of future events in the series. I thought a campaign to take Pentos may take months/years, but it seems that you could just go and take over the city, really...

[Ser Lepus]

Other thing: The bad defenses Pentos has against any attack on land and sea is clearly very important in light of future events in the series. I thought a campaign to take Pentos may take months/years, but it seems that you could just go and take over the city, really...

It also explains why the Myrish are so eager to bribe the Dothraki. It isn't because they are coward weaklings like Tyrion thought...they really aren't allowed to fight.

Also: It seems that other Free Cities, like Volantis, sometimes fight the Dothraki rather than bribe them:

Since that time, the elephants—the more peaceable of the Volantene factions—have dominated the annual choosing and the office of triarch. Yet years of expansion under the tigers gave Volantis control over several lesser cities, most notable amongst them the great river “towns” of Volon Therys, Valysar, and Selhorys (each larger and more populous than King’s Landing or Oldtown). The Volantenes also control the Rhoyne as far as the tributary river Selhoru, and hold sway over the Orange Coast to the west. These lands are protected by slave soldiers against the Dothraki horselords, who sometimes test the Volantene defenses, and the other Free Cities, who attempt to grow stronger at the expense of their sister city.

[Wmarshal]

I love that how no food grows in Asshai, this explains why Mel is able to live without food or water, they taught this spell/magic/whatever in Asshai because food and water is not always avaible. I think children die in Asshai because magic is too strong and children are too weak to handle magical energy? (Im looking at you Harry Potter :laugh: ) But how do they reproduce? O.O

Asshai is immense though. It might be the biggest city in all world.

Also Mel is a shadowbinder too. Is that mean she ate those mutated fishes in Ash? Did she dare to go upriver. She must be a POV in TWOW :crying:

I assumed their is no children because Asshai is more of a place of learning then actual city state.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

I assumed their is no children because Asshai is more of a place of learning then actual city state.

That is what I assumed after reading the section, considering people all over the world comes here to study magic. But there are native Asshai'i, they don't know who built their city. But Oldtown/The Citadel is suppose to be the greatest learning place (it says so in the book). Asshai is far bigger than Oldtown, if it was the case then Asshai should be the world's greatest learning place.

Btw, who rules this city for the gods' sake!

[Dany's Golden Fleece]

Why are there no children in Asshai?

My theory is that they are all sold to the religion of R'hallor to serve in their head temple in Volantis, the books states many children are trained there. It could explain why Melisandre has said she was a slave, she is from Asshai and was sold off at an early age. Maybe R'hallor finds something special about children exposed to Asshai, maybe they have a strange relationship with fire?

[David C. Hunter]

My theory is that they are all sold to the religion of R'hallor to serve in their head temple in Volantis, the books states many children are trained there. It could explain why Melisandre has said she was a slave, she is from Asshai and was sold off at an early age. Maybe R'hallor finds something special about children exposed to Asshai, maybe they have a strange relationship with fire?

or just more magic prone in general. Still, even if they sell Children to R'hillor I doubt it shows Asshai's allegiance, despite Quaithe's meddling

[David C. Hunter]

Yea it's definitely them, the underground cities sound exactly like the ones the children make in Westeros.

The descriptions of the Leng peoples eyes are similar to the children. I'm not a big fan of CotF mating with humans theories, but I guess this is one case where it's actually possible based on the evidence that there was some form of mating.

Okay yea, it's definitely them lol. I thinking "merging of bloods" is synonymous with mating. I dont believe the Northmen, Crannogs, Lengish(?) or anyone mated with the Children of the Forest, but rather, their blood was merged, blood sacrifice, or something like that.

But I also dont want this story to be about the 101 of "how the Children plan to get revenge on the greedy men who stole their lands"

I mean that is just what happens in nature, they all of creatures should know this. I actually trust the White Walkers more than the Children. Idk what their deal is.