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[TWoIaF spoilers] The Death of the Dragons ...


Lord Varys

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... is not really discussed in this book.



We don't get the names of the last stunted dragons that hatched throughout the reign of Aegon III, the last of which died in the year 153 AC (curiously the birth year of Daeron II).



The dragons surviving the Dance are:



1. Silverwing who became wild and made a lair on an isle in Red Lake. [My guess is she was killed by a dragonslayer either during or after the Regency].



2. Sheepstealer, who disappeared with Nettles before the end of the Dance. They apparently hid with the clansmen of the Mountains of the Moon and co-founded the Burned Men (young men had to go to the fire witch and her dragon to dare his fire and prove their manhood).



3. Morning, the dragon of Rhaena of Pentos who hatched during the Dance and was, understandably, too young to fight. [Considering the fact that Rhaena took a Hightower for her second husband, they may have lived in Oldtown, and the dragon could have been poisoned.]



4. The Cannibal. No one ever claimed him, but he mysteriously disappeared at the end of the Dance. We don't known anything more than that about his whereabouts (my guess: he may still be alive somewhere, possibly in some sort of hibernation beneath the Dragonmount). A really curious detail about him is that the smallfolk on Dragonstone believed that the Cannibal already lived on Dragonstone long before the Targaryens ever came. Scholars dismiss that, of course, but this claim truly puts out debate whether Vermithor or the Cannibal were older into perspective.



Another interesting tidbit is that of the Regency Council that oversaw the Realm during the third Aegon's minority only Grand Maester Munkun served the full term from 131-136 AC. For a time, he was the Hand, Grand Maester, and only Regent (until a Great Council was called, and three other regents were chosen by lot). He had both the time and the opportunity to pursue his very own agenda while the other regents were vying for power - and no one could stop during the time when he effectively ruled the Realm.


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2. Sheepstealer, who disappeared with Nettles before the end of the Dance. They apparently hid with the clansmen of the Mountains of the Moon and co-founded the Burned Men (young men had to go to the fire witch and her dragon to dare his fire and prove their manhood).

4. The Cannibal. No one ever claimed him, but he mysteriously disappeared at the end of the Dance. We don't known anything more than that about his whereabouts (my guess: he may still be alive somewhere, possibly in some sort of hibernation beneath the Dragonmount). A really curious detail about him is that the smallfolk on Dragonstone believed that the Cannibal already lived on Dragonstone long before the Targaryens ever came. Scholars dismiss that, of course, but this claim truly puts out debate whether Vermithor or the Cannibal were older into perspective.

Well. That is very interesting indeed. To me Cannibal has always been a more interesting dragon than Sheepstealer. So could he possibly be from a lineage of dragons that nested in the volcano of Dragonstone and survived the Long Night independently from those nesting in the volcanos of Valyria? A lineage of dragons that seldom left their deep volcanic vents and thus remained hidden for most of history? Maybe the last remnant of the dragons that were once native to Westeros, before the Long Night killed off the rest?

That could explain Cannibal's animosity to the Targaryen dragons, who were intruders into his turf, arriving a mere 400 years ago, compared to the 10,000 years that his line had inhabited the island?

Was his size ever fully detailed in the Princess and the Queen? We know he was the largest wild dragon, and that this made his birth date at least as far back as shortly after the Conquest. But that limit, to the best of my knowledge, was only ever imposed because everyone assumed that the largest Targaryen dragons were the largest dragons of all.

Could the Cannibal's size actually have been larger than even that of Vhagar at the time, with the assumption that wild dragons were simply not included in the assessment of the size of bonded Targaryen dragons?

In other words, could the Cannibal be even older than Balerion?

EDIT

Cannibal being from a separate dragon lineage to the Targaryen dragons could also explain why he could never be bonded, if we accept the theory that Targaryens are only bonded through their blood to dragons from the ancient Targaryen dragon line, and not to any other dragons that are not from the original Targaryen family egg, back in the distant past.

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I believe it's Morning Light, the name of Rhaena's dragon.

Also, odd that Yandel doesn't make the connection between "fire witch" and Nettles. (I guess this means that they were discovered in a difficult fashion/setting.)

I remember Ran saying that Nettles flew away to a much more interesting place - so is this place the Mountains of Vale or are we to find this out in TWoW, however indirectly?

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Well. That is very interesting indeed. To me Cannibal has always been a more interesting dragon than Sheepstealer. So could he possibly be from a lineage of dragons that nested in the volcano of Dragonstone and survived the Long Night independently from those nesting in the volcanos of Valyria?

...........

It's tough to imagine a line of dragons being present in Westeros pre-Targ without being noticed. They would have to eat, after all.

If they had hatched, that is. Perhaps some non-Targ dragon laid a clutch of eggs at Dragonstone that hatched during Targ times. (I have really liked your dragonlord family-specific dragon lines idea ever since I read it. That would explain Cannibal quite well!)

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...

2. Sheepstealer, who disappeared with Nettles before the end of the Dance. They apparently hid with the clansmen of the Mountains of the Moon and co-founded the Burned Men (young men had to go to the fire witch and her dragon to dare his fire and prove their manhood).

Where did you get this interesting tale? Maester Gyldayn says they were last seen flying over the Bay of Crabs and he thinks they crashed into the ocean.

.

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It's tough to imagine a line of dragons being present in Westeros pre-Targ without being noticed. They would have to eat, after all.

If they had hatched, that is. Perhaps some non-Targ dragon laid a clutch of eggs at Dragonstone that hatched during Targ times. (I have really liked your dragonlord family-specific dragon lines idea ever since I read it. That would explain Cannibal quite well!)

Thanks.

My thinking on Cannibal (if he is from a separate lineage, independent from Valyria), is that Dragonstone might have been ill omened and avoided in the past. And as the Valyrian dragons seem to have stuck to their nests in the volcanos (the Valyrian shepherds were originally said to have discovered them nesting in the Fourteen Fires, meaning they weren't seen flying around Valyra in general), Cannibal and his ancestors might have hung around Dragostone mostly, maybe hunting in the nearby Cracklaw point and other sparsely populated areas from time to time. (This might be the origin of the tale of Ser Clarence Crabb's encounters with Dragons in the distant past.)

From the description of Cannibal's behavior, he seems to have been rather territorial and elusive. Appearing out of the blue from time to time to attack and eat other dragons, before disappearing again for long periods. I'm thinking that this dragon family might have spent 90% of their time hibernating deep in the volcano - in areas too hot for human explorers to venture to - and only emerging to feed ocassionaly.

Maybe even emerging at night only, thus making it even harder to notice.

We know there were dragons in Westeros in the distant past, and no one really knows when the last ones died out. Maybe the vast majority died out long ago, during the Long Night, with only a small, mostly hibernating colony surviving on Dragonstone. With the smallfolk of Dragonstone only occasionaly catching fleeting glimpses of Cannibal or his ancestors, over the centuries. As reported in the World Book.

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Guessing the potential of Cannibals age baed on size is also made more difficult by the fact he was a wild dragon so grew up without his growth being stunted in anyway by being in a pit. Also we don't really know how long a dragon can survive when they are surrounded by heat. Maybe their lives are much longer if they stay in their vents/volcanoes and just enjoy lapping up the heat. Once removed from that and tamed their lives must have changed quite dramatically.


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Other more important dragon thing:



Vermax supposedly left a clutch of eggs in Winterfell's crypt while Jace was treating with Lord Cregan (source: Mushroom). Yandel discredits this claim, as well as the belief of the smallfolk of Winterfell that a sleeping dragon beneath the castle would warm the hot pools (that one does not sound all that likely, I've to admit).



The interesting thing there is that Summer saw a fiery snake in the smoke or something like that in Bran's last chapter of ACoK. Did Jon's dragon hatch back then in the fire and blood (sacrifice) of the burning of Winterfell?



I never took that theory seriously, but this really turns everything on its head. Not to mention that Jace made a Pact of Ice and Fire with Cregan, promising House Stark a Targaryen princess in mariage. It would really fit GRRM's way of thinking that a descendant of Vermax would end up becoming the mount of the son of Stark-Targaryen-match


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Other more important dragon thing:

Vermax supposedly left a clutch of eggs in Winterfell's crypt while Jace was treating with Lord Cregan (source: Mushroom). Yandel discredits this claim, as well as the belief of the smallfolk of Winterfell that a sleeping dragon beneath the castle would warm the hot pools (that one does not sound all that likely, I've to admit).

The interesting thing there is that Summer saw a fiery snake in the smoke or something like that in Bran's last chapter of ACoK. Did Jon's dragon hatch back then in the fire and blood (sacrifice) of the burning of Winterfell?

I never took that theory seriously, but this really turns everything on its head. Not to mention that Jace made a Pact of Ice and Fire with Cregan, promising House Stark a Targaryen princess in mariage. It would really fit GRRM's way of thinking that a descendant of Vermax would end up becoming the mount of the son of Stark-Targaryen-match

The problem with that is a that another dragon egg, or even a dragon hatchling, is going to be of no practical value during the course of the series. A full grown, ancient dragon just wakened from hibernation, though. That will be of very great value indeed.

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We know there were dragons in Westeros in the distant past, and no one really knows when the last ones died out. Maybe the vast majority died out long ago, during the Long Night, with only a small, mostly hibernating colony surviving on Dragonstone. With the smallfolk of Dragonstone only occasionaly catching fleeting glimpses of Cannibal or his ancestors, over the centuries. As reported in the World Book.

World Book seems to strongly hint at the fact that, if dragons lived in Westeros once, they lived not only around Dragonstone but around Winterfell as well.

Now, all that's needed is to know if dragons lived near Winterfell during the Long Night...

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A wild hatchling that hatched at the end of ACoK would not be much younger than Dany's dragons.



Another thing:



It's all but confirmed that Dany's eggs are ancient Targaryen dragon eggs. After Duskendale, Aerys tried to hatch some dragon eggs 'so old that they had already turned to stone' from Dragonstone. It would be a pretty big coincidence of Dany just happens to get similar dragon eggs from Illyrio later on...



The Cannibal could come from a Valyrian dragon line connected to the original settlers of the island. The Valyrians arrived there first about 100 years before the Doom and raised the Citadel. Aenar only moved there 12 years before the Doom.


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A wild hatchling that hatched at the end of ACoK would not be much younger than Dany's dragons.

Another thing:

It's all but confirmed that Dany's eggs are ancient Targaryen dragon eggs. After Duskendale, Aerys tried to hatch some dragon eggs 'so old that they had already turned to stone' from Dragonstone. It would be a pretty big coincidence of Dany just happens to get similar dragon eggs from Illyrio later on...

The Cannibal could come from a Valyrian dragon line connected to the original settlers of the island. The Valyrians arrived there first about 100 years before the Doom and raised the Citadel. Aenar only moved there 12 years before the Doom.

But if Dany's eggs are from the pre-Targaryen Valyrians that settled Dragonstone 100 years before Aenar (not really "ancient" in my understanding of the word, by the way), then Dany's eggs would in fact not be Targaryen family eggs, but from the Cannibal's line.

EDIT

It would seem to me that ancient eggs already turned to stone would have to be thousands of years old. And therefore I would rather think Dany's eggs came from some ancient Targaryen eggs stolen from ancient Valyria, than from a fairly recent batch laid just 500 years ago.

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We learn that obsidian is an important piece of export from Skagos, meaning that the island must have a volcanic history. A clue to Cannibal going there eventually?



I think the obsidian sources in Skagos will play a part in the current story too. Jon should arm people with obsidian.


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Aha! That is very important. I have always theorized that Skagos was volcanic in nature, given the volcanic vents all over the North in general. (In the Frostfangs, Hardhome, Dreadfort and Winterfell).



But there was never a clear confirmation of that fact. This reference to obsidian from Skagos finally proves that. I submit now with more confidence than ever that Cannibal is hibernating in a volcanic vent in the remote mountains of Skagos.


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I don't think that Nettles is the fire witch in the Vale. I think it is more likely that she headed over to Essos and the fire witch is Alys Rivers.



It would be fun if dragons did hatch when Winterfell burned. However, Dany lit her fire and bonded with a dragon while the person who probably lit the fire at Winterfell was one of Ramsay's men. Who wants Boltons on Dragons?


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