Would Daenerys Make the Starks bend the knee if they help defeat the Others?

[Winterfell Resident]

I have this burning question that has been bothering me after reading all 5 of the books.

If The Starks and Daenerys ally themselves together and miraculously defeat the Others would Daenerys still turn around and demand that the Starks and the North bend the knee to her as Queen of the 7 Kingdoms?

So far, Daenerys regards the Starks as the ones who helped in murdering her father Aerys II Targaryen and taking the kingdom from him.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Daenerys harbors ill will towards the Starks.

I believe that Barristan Selmy did try to tell her that the Starks were honorable and had no hand in killing the kids but I believe she still didn't care.

Which begs the question If the Starks and Daenerys together defeat the Others would Daenerys still turn around and demand that the Starks and the North bend the knee to her as Queen of the 7 kingdoms?

Please, I would like to hear your input on this.

[Lord Lannister]

Dany's pretty much given in to her own revisionist version of history in regards to the Starks. I think she'd try to force them to bend the knee no matter what.

[Ser Greenseer]

She will try to make everyone bend the knee not just the Starks. I just hope the Starks don't give in like the last time.

[Roose Trollton.]

What Starks mate?

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

unless barristan' messages get across, she will still try to wipe out the starks.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Yes. And no, she will not work with them to defeat the Others. At best, she'll demand them to bend the knee before lifting a finger.

[Korin Polušaka]

The North will defeat Others without Dany...At least I hope this will happen :cool4:

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

What Starks?

I'm not even kidding. What Starks would there be for Dany to make these demands toward?

Ned, Cat, and Robb are dead.

Sansa is in the Vale, living as Alayne Stone and in thrall to Littlefinger.

Arya is No One in Braavos.

Bran is plugged into the roots of a tree.

And Rickon is a child on Skagos.

By the time the others are defeated the Westerosi political landscape will be utterly changed. Who knows which Starks and/or Dany will survive what's to come?

[OldGimletEye]

What Starks?

I'm not even kidding. What Starks would there be for Dany to make these demands toward?

Ned, Cat, and Robb are dead.

Sansa is in the Vale, living as Alayne Stone and in thrall to Littlefinger.

Arya is No One in Braavos.

Bran is plugged into the roots of a tree.

And Rickon is a child on Skagos.

By the time the others are defeated the Westerosi political landscape will be utterly changed. Who knows which Starks and/or Dany will survive what's to come?

Ok, then. Just substitute Jon and the North.

[RoamingRonin]

What Starks mate?

This.

[averde]

She'd be a fool if she doesn't make the Starks submit. To allow a kingdom to break off and form their own independent kingdom seperate from the other seven encourages the rest to eventually rise up against Daenerys and her heirs and demand their own independence. If she's looking to establish any kind of long term dynasty/ government she has to make the Starks bend the knee.

[Jauqin]

She's anti slavery, not anti autocracy. She'd make them.

[sj4iy]

...not seeing Dany on the IT, myself.

[OldGimletEye]

Yes. And no, she will not work with them to defeat the Others. At best, she'll demand them to bend the knee before lifting a finger.

You're probably right about this. I just hope Jon threatens not to share any knowledge about how to defeat the Others and destroys all the obsidian daggers too, rather than surrendering unconditionally; basically engaging in a strategy of mutual assured destruction.

This:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdRo7okHCAc

would be a better ending than Jon just handing the North over to Dany without conditions.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Just shiv her and call it a day. Or skinchange her dragons and show her the business end of her "children". Lots of options, truth to tell.

[Tiliana]

Yes she would and I have to ask what is wrong with the North bending to knee to someone?

Has not bending the knee been a good thing for the North? How many more people have to die because of some vague sense of nationalism and superiority? It's ridiculous and I think Jon or whoever is in power will be wise because they will bend the knee and focus on what is important

[OldGimletEye]

Yes she would and I have to ask what is wrong with the North bending to knee to someone?

Has not bending the knee been a good thing for the North? How many more people have to die because of some vague sense of nationalism and superiority? It's ridiculous and I think Jon or whoever is in power will be wise because they will bend the knee and focus on what is important

Because the North doesn't owe Dany anything. And they have no reason to trust her. And it's not about some sense of national superiority. People have the right to resist an aggressor.

Also, how many people have to die because of Dany's invasions?

Are the Dornish the bad guys now for resisting Targaryen invasions of their homeland?

[sj4iy]

Yes she would and I have to ask what is wrong with the North bending to knee to someone?

Has not bending the knee been a good thing for the North? How many more people have to die because of some vague sense of nationalism and superiority? It's ridiculous and I think Jon or whoever is in power will be wise because they will bend the knee and focus on what is important

I think Jon has the right of it:

"I will never ask you to kneel to me, but I will set captains over you, and sergeants who will tell you when to rise and when to sleep, where to eat, when to drink, what to wear, when to draw your swords and loose your arrows. The men of the Night’s Watch serve for life. I will not ask that of you, but so long as you are on the Wall you will be under my command. Disobey an order, and I’ll have your head off. Ask my brothers if I won’t. They’ve seen me do it.”

"I do not require men to kneel, but they do need to obey.”

Jon realizes a very important lesson- give men their dignity, and they will fight for you. Force servitude on them, and they will seethe. Dany, if she's sensible about it, would not force anyone to bend the knee as a condition for helping.

[Tiliana]

Because the North doesn't owe Dany anything. And they have no reason to trust her. And it's not about some sense of national superiority. People have the right to resist an aggressor.

Also, how many people have to die because of Dany's invasions?

Are the Dornish the bad guys now for resisting Targaryen invasions of their homeland?

No region really "owes" anything to any monarch. What did Dorne owe the Baratheons? In fact the Baratheons owed them quite a bit for the disgusting treatment of Elia that was a result of the rebellion and yet Doran bent the knee regardless because he is wise enough to see the benefit in it

And I don't get why you see Dany as an inherent aggressor; if the North and Dany work together (which is the premise of the thread) how is she aggressive to the North? What would be the problem with bending the knee then? Comparing that situation to Dorne and Aegon is completely inaccurate, Aegon wasn't helping Dorne in any way. If Ned were still around he would have bent the knee to Dany in this scenario, no doubt in my mind. And currently, if Stannis delivers on what he is setting out to do. the North should bend the knee to him as well.

I think Jon has the right of it:

"I will never ask you to kneel to me, but I will set captains over you, and sergeants who will tell you when to rise and when to sleep, where to eat, when to drink, what to wear, when to draw your swords and loose your arrows. The men of the Night’s Watch serve for life. I will not ask that of you, but so long as you are on the Wall you will be under my command. Disobey an order, and I’ll have your head off. Ask my brothers if I won’t. They’ve seen me do it.”

"I do not require men to kneel, but they do need to obey.”

Jon realizes a very important lesson- give men their dignity, and they will fight for you. Force servitude on them, and they will seethe. Dany, if she's sensible about it, would not force anyone to bend the knee as a condition for helping.

I don't think she would make anyone bend the knee before she helps

But I don't see why she shouldn't expect them to after she does. I don't even think she would have to demand it, they would do it willingly

[sj4iy]

No region really "owes" anything to any monarch. What did Dorne owe the Baratheons? In fact the Baratheons owed them quite a bit for the disgusting treatment of Elia that was a result of the rebellion and yet Doran bent the knee regardless because he is wise enough to see the benefit in it

And I don't get why you see Dany as an inherent aggressor; if the North and Dany work together (which is the premise of the thread) how is she aggressive to the North? What would be the problem with bending the knee then? Comparing that situation to Dorne and Aegon is completely inaccurate, Aegon wasn't helping Dorne in any way. If Ned were still around he would have bent the knee to Dany in this scenario, no doubt in my mind. And currently, if Stannis delivers on what he is setting out to do. the North should bend the knee to him as well.

I don't think she would make anyone bend the knee before she helps

But I don't see why she shouldn't expect them to after she does. I don't even think she would have to demand it, they would do it willingly

"Helping" them does not make her their savior. Nor would her help be altruistic- if the Others aren't defeated, all life on earth is in trouble. Her "helping" wouldn't make people so grateful that they would say "Be our queen!" That's not how it works. People want autonomy, not rulers. They don't kneel out of gratitude.